Interesting issue you put here Mr. FlyingPig. Wow, You feel like youre higher than me. Last time I checked your a Consigliere like me. You being a right hand does not make you a much higher than me when it comes to the streets. Given that youre the second in command in your crew but it doesnt damn change even a bit when it comes to the street, so dont be an ass who comes out feeling you are higher than me because you dont.

You say  "you can say almost anything you like if you say it properly"..look whos talking is "fucktard" you say is proper?, hell no. Again I dont have problem with that because we are the same RANK. I can speak to you the way you speak to me but unfotunately im more polite than you expected. Im a human with conscience and you, you hve your own reasons.

I dont see physical interference with this given debate, If you cant contain or sustain public speaking with your gun, then youre incompetent. 

You said it yourself, you are a whiner.. you came out here complain, "Please dont spam me, I have my selfish reasons" etc. and now your saying I insulted you?, It is your own damned fault.

Her lips pursed she listens to the exchange of words...

Pucky, I may call you Pucky right? Good. You are sitting here speaking of respect, yet you have shown me none. I am not of the same rank, in fact I outrank you... I am also a leader, a city leader last timer I checked... Yet, even though you speak of rank being what defines the respect shown toward someone, you show me none. Not one ounce of respect. Like my Right Hand has stated... You have been rather condescending.

Does this "rank" equals "respect" thing not apply to me?

You are still sitting here treating my Right Hand, the same rank as you in your eyes, with no respect and expect respect in return?

I'm not bringing up any fucking issue. I'm telling you how it is. Although judging from the stupidity of your last comments, I might as well be talking to a brick wall. Your mouth is writing checks that your ass can't cash.

You are not my equal, being a RHM does make me higher than you, I'll be a fucking ass if I want to, I only called you a fucktard after you called me a whiner, I'm not polite because I do not respect you, I have no fucking conscience, I can speak with my gun because I am a mobster, not a fucking orator, and I never "said it myself". I think that covers everything. In other words, everything you just said was absolute shit.

Since you do not know when it is a good time to shut the fuck up, you and me have a problem.

Don DLS, can I call you like that?,yes?, thank you.. I have my utmost respect to you. You prove to be respected because just like what youve said, you are a city leader and with that You have my respect. You may not respect me because of this situation at hand and because your boys are into it. However your right hand really into it. He takes it too far that he had a problem to me. shocking isnt it? In my previous statement, I didnt see any disrespect in my part when addressing to you. I even admire you with your sweetest smile despite with your boys ready to kill me.

And as for you Mr. FlyingPig, I dont see any reasons with you, being a Right hand of someone from another city to be higher than a mobster with your same rank. For the love of someone, Why are you pushing that you are higher than me, while in fact we are the same rank. I think Im talking to a broken music player. by the way, I didnt call you a whiner, I just call you one when you said it yourself and your actions speak well of it. To be honest I dont even care if you respect me, Time and time again I see you in streets with no respect to everbody so Ill be a luckiest guy if you will respect me. Ill even marry you if you respect. Think about it really really close, when was the last time you respect someone in the streets?

Pucky, as someone who has been on these shores for 8 months, you really should know by now why a right-hand man to a city head is more highly regarded in cosa nostra than you. When Dionysus tried to nudge you in the right direction you should have heeded his subtle nod and climbed out of the hole, not keep on digging at an increased rate.

To address the initial point in question - I always love gratitude, particularly when it comes in slightly more tangible forms such as cold hard cash, or sexual favours. However, I concur with the statement that a note left in gratitude could rapidly become irritating (to say the least), particularly with the insane amount of "ZOMG THANK YOU!!1!" notes I would assume such elite mobsters as that have spoken here today would receive.

Of course, there's several issues with this, one being my jail breaking skills are nothing but shit, so chances of me scoring anything are fairly slim to none. Two, I am ranked but an Earner, so chances that ANYONE CAN HEAR ME (or cares) are also slim to none.

Mystery nods to Dionysus, and old time friend. He was glad that he'd decided to stop out, it was a perfect time to make an example.

"Ahhh Dionysus old pal' of mine. So glad to see you here. It means a lot to me that a right hand to a city has enough respect for me to decide his time worthy of mine."

Mystery smiled and turned to Pucky. "See that? See what I did there? Shock horror gasp, I showed respect to someone higher ranked in this thing of ours than I. What? What's that you say?! He is only Made Man whilst I am a Consig? Oh. I must not have gotten the memo. Oh... Wait. You didn't get the memo?!"

Mystery continued, as a few confused people scratched their heads. "He's the right hand man of not only a GodMother, but an entire fucking city. Such as FlyingPig is. Well, as soon as DLS stops eating so many muffins and ranks. Either way, he's still the leader of an entire city. You bet your ass everybody in our headquarters knows not to disrespect someone with a slanty suit. Maybe it's the water in N'Orleans."

Mystery laughed at this ridiculous discussion. "Really I only intended on gathering peoples thoughts on the original issue, but it's turned out to get quite more itneresting than that. Pucky, I highly suggest you take both of my friends advice, and not continue to dig yourself into a hole too deep to crawl back out of."

After listening to the exchange and seeing the consequences of it he can't help but speak out "You gotta give respect to receive it. Calling someone a "fucktard" will only lead to a war of words or worse...there's no respect in that word. There's no fucking cowards in the mafia you stand up for what you believe in...and you certainly stand the fuck up when someone calls you a "fucktard". I would personally expect someone in a higher position to show more respect and restraint....because the words they speak can lead to war or shorten the fuse."

Thinks for a second "Why would I treat someone of lower rank and higher position in another city any better than anyone else? I busted my ass to get where I am and they made it off their bloodline. (nothing about the topic I'm discussing is right in any way...but we'll save that for another life, another day and another debate)"

You would expect someone of a higher position to show more respect and restraint, when it had already been shown that the opposition was not willing to do the same? The saying 'it takes a bigger man to back down from a fight' comes to mind... and then gets drowned in the tears of my laughter at this. We're in the mafia. The bigger man never backs down. They either stay in their corner, or they come out swinging. There's really no other way.

Calling one a "fucktard" is hardly a sign of respect or any type of restraint....it's hard to show any type of respect back after the statement is made. To the best of my knowledge respect was shown to the CL then it turned into a three on one war of words. This goes without saying...correct me if I'm wrong.

John, the point Mystery was trying to make is that you seem to think FlyingPig is the provoking party when he was reacting to what he was being told by another person.

Thank you for the clarification GodFather, that is quite correct.

I am beginning to get in another one of my "I hate everyone" moods, because I am getting sick of seeing these fucking imbeciles not understand the nature of our business. Pay attention John and anyone else who still does not get it...You are in the fucking mafia! Life is not fair!

John, I don't know which playground you operate your business from, but in the mafia, your brotherly sentiments are ridiculous. You've got to give respect to receive it? Awww...isn't that a nice idea...

Sadly, you are mistaken. In a world of equals, you might have to give respect to receive it.  However, in a society based on power, the top dog can tell you to eat shit, and you're gonna run to grab a spoon.

You expect someone like me to show more respect and restraint?  Good for you. You can expect that all fucking day, doesn't mean it is going to happen.  I really don't know how your expectations matter, anyhow. Besides that, you seem to be operating from the playground again. What in the sweet fuck makes you think that someone as high on the ladder as myself is supposed to sit back and take shit, all the while using proper manners like an English gentleman?

You're another one of these fucktards who thinks that we are all equals here and have to treat everyone the same. You're not even a made guy, yet you think your opinion matters. Feel free to express it, but do so respectfully, and don't think for a minute that any made guy has to return the respect.

Finally, as far as your last thoughts, I hope you were not suggesting that I made anything off my bloodline. If you believe that, you are a misguided fool, even more so than Pucky. Have you also eaten your Wheaties this morning? Because I don't know where the fuck you get off coming out here and with that garbage. At least Pucky was a Consig, now I have to listen to this bullshit from a Wiseguy...

Walks off shaking his head at the rampant idiocy

Exactly... the name calling started with Pucky... one thing for sure, i would think twice before name calling a RHM. A RHM is to be called sir... and nothing less. FlyingPig was damn right about calling Pucky a "fucktard". If someone went out of their way and called me a whiner, i sure as hell would'nt take it. Any hand man deserves the descency of beeing shown the respect they have acquired for taking care of their family when their boss's arent around.

sneakyrat leaves the scene shaking his head, not believing his ears. What has all this come down to? He does'nt know!

John, you might also wish to take a look at your own city rules about interferring in disputes between other cities.  If I know the rules of your city, you certainly should since you live there.

Why would I treat someone of lower rank and higher position in another city any better than anyone else? I busted my ass to get where I am and they made it off their bloodline.

That's an interesting statement and a half. Are you telling me that a capo does not have to show respect to a Made Man who is Right-Hand to a Godfather?

A Right-Hand has the same power as the Boss - the only difference being the suit, which is what you should consider before you speak. These two are only shortly followed by the left hand, whose powers are only a little less but the same respect is due all the same.

The hands are all about trust. You don't get trust from not working your ass off. If I was a Crewleader and my Right-Hand man - whose son had grown up around me and I knew just as well as his father - died suddenly, I would make him my Right-Hand. Let's face it - he was brought up by the single man I trusted with everything and is most likely out of anyone to be very similar to his predecessor. Who the fuck are you to question a Crewleaders choice of Right-Hand? Who the fuck are you to assume you have worked yourself harder than any other person? Regardless of a who a Crewleader picks as their Right-Hand they are due respect, you are not in the position to judge or decide that.

I would pick apart the rest of what you said, but FlyingPig has already done a fantastic job.

Nobody said jack shit about you taking shit and not standing up....I wouldn't expect that from anyone...I thought I made that clear. Going from blue to red

Who the fuck am I? You can show me disrespect because I'm nowhere near you in terms of anything. Am I gonna disrespect you? No...but then again you can take anything I say as disrespect if you so chose..so...ok.

My opinion doesn't make a shit of difference to anything...I can leave it at that for as far as I care.

As I said before the RHM/LHM thing can be left for another life, another time and another debate. You know...I cant help but say this on the topic though....If you cant trust a boss or consig in your family to take over the duties and instead look to a thug....how the hell did you promote them to that high a rank to begin with? This isn't a fucking game....it's a way of life. Now you can take the question the wrong way if you please....but it's an honest one. If there are some things I don't understand...fix my ignorance.

If you cant trust a boss or consig in your family to take over the duties and instead look to a thug....how the hell did you promote them to that high a rank to begin with?

It's not always a case of trust. Obviously it's going to be those peoples first chance at being a possible Right-Hand so they aren't going to know what to do, or choosing the ex-Right Hand's son who has been brought up right alongside the man who you used to have in that position who knows from actually watching his father exactly what to do. Not only is about trust though, it is about certain frames of mind. Your Right-Hand should be an extension of you - he should be someone who echoes your own sentiments. A Crewleader may trust every Made Man and higher the same, but they will not always have the same opinions as him or the same ideas - The Right-Hand should have the same ideas and be working towards the same goals as the Crewleader.

So where you are saying it is to do with trust you are wrong. It is an issue of views, the character of the person in question and whether or not there is anybody else who actually wants to be the Right-Hand.

Are you therefore implying that Crewleaders who have people below Made as their Right/Left hands don't trust their button men? You should be careful there, as that is grouping a lot of people into that category.

Chuck who was astonished by the exchange of words of some of the greatest and wittiest hands of mafia gathered was a little confused too with regards of the change of topic at hand.

John, the fact that you are unable to see the disrespect you have shown is amazing.

I take great offense with the way you are speaking to me. Your tone with me is unacceptable, for starters. Would you swear at your Boss like you have towards me? Would you express disdain for the way he speaks, as you did with me when you condemned my "lack of respect and restraint"? Would you suggest that he had not earned his position but only got there because of his ancestors? Of course you would not, but apparently you feel it is ok to speak to a RHM this way?

I do not appreciate some associate telling me that my manners are inappropriate. I do not need to be told how to do business by a wiseguy from a city halfway across the country. I definitely do not like to be judged in a way that appears you look down your nose at me. Just who in the fuck do you think you are, judging me? You don't think you disrespected me? You need to learn the meaning of respect, then.

Your contempt for the RHMs in this thing of ours is especially foolish considering that I think the point has been made clearly in this discussion that they are to be respected. A Consigliere even lost his life to make that point. And yet, it is a point that flew right over your head.

Your disdain is obvious. You could not have expressed it more clearly than you did when you stated: "Why would I treat someone of lower rank and higher position in another
city any better than anyone else? I busted my ass to get where I am and
they made it off their bloodline."  You know what? Tough shit. Know your place. You would treat someone of a lower rank and higher position in another city better than anyone else because that is what is demanded of you by the power structure of Cosa Nostra.

If you refuse to follow the power structure in Cosa Nostra, you'll be just another indignant dead guy who stuck to his misinformed principles.