Overview

My suggestion is that we do away with the traditional invite/approach system and simply allow users to select the family they wish to join after completing the tutorial phase of the game. 

How it would actually work

Upon signing up, I am greeted with the much improved tutorial phase of the game which teaches me the basics of how to play. I am directed towards the jobs board where I can then start taking on menial work for crews. Upon the culmination of this phase, I am steered towards sending my chosen operation a mail or they contact me.

I would propose that when I click to leave the tutorial phase of the game or turn off the job board and do petty crimes, I am presented with an option to choose a crew to join and then I am automatically placed with any available sponsor within that family. I would no longer need to be contacted nor would I need to contact them.

Each crew would have produced information about themselves (I would suggest an extension of the crew details page which is totally neglected at the moment) and this would be used to assist the user in making their choice.

Once they have selected a crew to join, the sponsor selected gets a notification saying something along the lines of "After seeing how well USERFACE did on their last job, you've decided to take them under your wing", therein alerting them to the new member joining their operation.

From there, the game would proceed as normal.

Why is this better than what we have now?

Currently, we have the jobs board system and the direct approach system.

In my experience as a sponsor, the jobs board is really just an invitation to approach the prospective member without accusations of spamming/member whoring. Depending upon your own preference you might ask them a couple of questions and they might come back to you, equally however, they might never log back in or they might go to another crew with lower expectations. Such is the recruitment process. 

If we changed this paradigm and allowed the user the choice of joining any available family with space, whereby they are automatically assigned an available sponsor, the dynamic is improved for both sides. The user gets to join the family they want to, they aren't hassled by numerous emails from different crews and they can actually take some time and read information about each organisation prior to making a choice. The sponsor isn't wasting effort contacting a lot of people who aren't interested in joining their family and can deal with the recruits who actually want to be with them.

We also know that the sponsors contacting users is somewhat hit and miss and there are numerous issues surrounding how many people actually make contact after using the jobs board. Therefore there is a possibility that users we have advertised hard to get simply logout due to either not knowing what to do next or not being bothered enough to send someone a mail. This would be improved.

Wait, I don't want loads of people I don't know anything about joining my crew!

....why not? How much vetting actually goes on? You don't know if someone is capable or not until they actually start working for you. If they are harboring bad intentions towards you, they can do very little damage at the lower ranks and none whatsoever at Thug. There is ample opportunity for your sponsor to speak to the person, decide whether they are for you or not and then tell them to join a different crew if that is the case.

In reality though, this will apply in only a very small number of cases. The majority of people who would benefit from this are those who are new to the game and may otherwise leave. By getting them into a family, seeing the interaction with other members and showing them what the game can offer, hopefully we are maximising our chances of retention.

But isn't it easy to get in a crew already?

Yes - for you and I, as we know how the game works and we know what the expectation level is. However, look at the marketplace for casual gamers; facebook games, iphone apps etc. etc. it is a totally different environment to what we have here. Users aren't expected to interact via messages to other players or roleplay in text form in forums. We have to convince them our game is enjoyable and worth the effort, which can best be achieved by embroiling them in the fun side of the game as quickly as possible. To me, that is best achieved by getting them involved in the family dynamic as quickly as possible. 

Final Thoughts 

Change is scary, but the current system isn't as efficient as it could be. I think this would be an improvement which should help with:

• Users getting in the family they want
• Needless mails about recruitment
• Sponsors wasting effort on people who don't want to join them
• Maximising chances of user retention 

Let me know your thoughts too!

As a new player, I can kind of understand where you're coming from. It was a little overwhelming, but not because I didn't know who to choose, simply because I had to. The very nature of the game is loyalty and picking a crew in my first few days or whatever it is before I get wacked by an experienced player, that's what drives people away. I would have liked to have a week or more as a freelance thug, talking in chat and getting familiar with the game and its players and crews before picking one, considering the consequences for leaving most crew.

Fortunately, I got in with a cool group (a bunch of animals, honestly, after all that bloodshed but I'd pick the same all over again) but I've heard stuff about other crews who take things too seriously. If I'd landed with one of them, or even just a group in which I didn't get along with the higher ups, I think it would have had a significant negative impact on my opinion on the game as a whole.

To address your four final points;

• Users getting in the family they want

Frankly, I don't think they deserve to get into the family of their choosing. The CL didn't pay all that money to make his own family just to have no control over who joins. Even is subterfuge wasn't a concern, a CL (or clan leader, guild leader, alliance leader in any game) should have final say of who gets in. If they want an elite team of expert players, they can have that. If they want a close-knit team of only IRL friends, they can have that.

That's not even addressing the nature of this game. The last thing you want in your crew is a mole. Even at low ranks, they can do quite a bit of damage. They can share crew-only documents, intentionally botch orders and who knows what else. You don't want an enemy in your crew, period.

Players should be able to apply to join a crew (if they can't already) but who gets in should be up to the CL and no one else.  

• Needless mails about recruitment

I wasn't really all that put off by the mail. I actually think I like it like that, if I'm being honest. I got some messages from other crews and I could tell just by our exchanges that I wouldn't be able to get along with the person sending that message. If I had joined a crew with a leader I couldn't tolerate, I probably wouldn't have lasted this long.

• Sponsors wasting effort on people who don't want to join them

When you put yourself in a position of authority, prepare to take on a lot of responsibility. Even some tedious ones. This can't really be helped.

• Maximising chances of user retention 

If you want to maximize user retention, you need to talk to all those people just waiting for fresh players to age so they can wack them consequence free.

I know I've disagreed with some points, but I do agree with your general idea. It's tough being new to this game. You get thrown right in and it's sink or swim, especially as your protection starts to run out. I think it would be a good idea to perhaps have some temporary crews available for new players to join at all times so they can get a feel for the game before they have to pick a family to stick with from that point onward.

Wakefield; many thanks for the response. Always good to get the perspective from someone new when the idea impacts upon people in similar positions. 

As a small game, sometimes we have to think a little outside of our remit as players. What I mean by this, is that I totally agree that a new thug who doesn't know anybody and hasn't done shit shouldn't have their pick of crews to join. However, conversely, looking at the bigger picture of "our game is a better more enjoyable experience with more players", then I think allowing them free reign is a small price to pay.

I believe that the number of people actually refused a spot in a crew is very small and even so, once they are within a crew, nobody is saying the Don is forced to house them forever - he is just asked to make an assessment of them, the same way he would in the traditional recruitment process (or not depending upon the person). Dons have the option to drop people from their crew, so in any negative example, where the new recruit is either untrustworthy or unworthy, they can quickly be removed from the family after assessment and they are therefore extremely limited in how much, if any, really, damage they can cause to that family.

The flip side is that now a new player, who is not intentionally setting out to cause trouble or any of that jazz, just really looking to get grips with the game; they are exposed to the crew chat, home city chat, HQ forum and ideally getting more bang for their buck than if they are still sat deciding whether or not they send BillyBoldUser a message. I believe this increases their chances of meeting someone/some people who are able to motivate them enough into think this game is worth playing.

With regard to your point on wacking of new players, I have to admit I'm a little in the dark on it. I thought this has been largely eradicated by the procedures put into place with the negative benefits to users who actually kill "innocent" accounts and no gain to those who kill those with less than 4 hours play time. 

I disagree with this idea, very much so. You talk about 'vetting,' you can tell a lot about a person by the way they talk and the way they carry themselves. If they message you like "hey, give me an invite, I need a family" without preamble, you know that they wouldn't be able to represent your crew and your family. Besides, it takes away the personal touch that the feature has.

I think it's a win/win.

I do think however there should be a limitation on what the new players can view, I imagine most players would choose to join the crew with the largest number of players because it would appear more secure. In order for players to find a crew that fits them better from the Crew Details then maybe we could restrict their viewing on how big the crew is to ensure they don't join a family for the wrong reasons.

Vetting is bullshit in my opinion. I'm fed up of being asked who my previous character was, this would remove that. As much as we all love that tedious back and forth flirting on the issues of bloodlines when we are approached by sponsors it's just fucking annoying.

Prae- You mentioned you can tell a lot about a person by how they talk, to be honest in this day and age it doesn't seem to matter how they talk, only if they can earn money or not. We very rarely see people engage in the streets, interaction is at a minimal and on the flip side, isn't it better for you as a leader to get more members and potentially more +1's if it turns out they don't like the game. Instead of having to race for an inactive, there's a ready made one in your crew. Going back to my previous point this would make things fairer, as I had said previously the bigger crews will typically see more people joining them and thus have more inactives to shoot.

"Vetting is bullshit in my opinion. I'm fed up of being asked who my previous character was, this would remove that. As much as we all love that tedious back and forth flirting on the issues of bloodlines when we are approached by sponsors it's just fucking annoying."

This. 

Sponsor - "Hey man, you looking for a new family?"

Me - "Yeah man, absolutely"

Sponsor - "You new round these parts of played before?"

Me - "I've played before on and off."

Sponsor - "Any names I might recognise?"

Me - "Nah."

That's how 98% of "vetting" conversations go.  

The vetting can be changed, it just takes pressure put on the crappy leadership/sponsors that half asses their recruitment and will pick up everyone and everything with a single message. Someone that has sent a single message should not have already found a home, simple as that. But when everyone is still gladly joining these families, why would they change their ways? If you think an interaction did not go as it should with a sponsor don't join them anyways. When they stop getting members they will hopefully attempt to change their ways. There are plenty of sponsors out there who can give a fuck less about who you once were and will have a nice conversation about what they expect from you and what you can expect from them when joining a family. With this arrangement alone you will find yourself having less arguments with new members and finding people that you actual want in your family instead of free-loaders that don't contribute at all. It's fairly easy to see who the poor sponsors are as they frequently have many new blood with unaccepted invites and they have sent a single message. 

Anyways, I disagree with this idea. I really wish and I know it's probably not going to go back to this way but it would be amazing if we could go back to the old way where the new blood was expected to approach a leader/sponsor for work, or at the minimum a sponsor would speak to new blood and get them working for them which would be what would actually happen in our line of work. With the tutorial, this could be easily explained to new blood that hey, you're a nobody so don't expect someone to come seek you out but you should find yourself some safety by speaking to some sponsors around the country and finding yourself some work. But I know that alone will get some new blood to turn away from the game and that is just bad for business.

I think that after a certain point your affiliation to a family should be final, depending upon the choice of the leader play in question, at least.

I'm not sure that allowing that freedom to switch family all the way up to Wise Guy is a necessary step. Thinking back to my own experience and those of people around me, for most new players any family where the leader and some members are active is probably fine in terms of hooking them into the game. More experienced players might well want to sample what's on offer, but that isn't really the point or realistic. Some people were never made, after all, yet become integral members of a specific organisation. I don't think that should be devalued by allowing transience prior to Made. 

I would think that something like a notification after 48 hours of "if you spend any more time with "the green regime", people are going to start thinking you're part of that crew. Are you sure that is what you want?" would provide plenty of time for a user to re-think there initial choice. 

As a leader if someone had auto-selected my crew based on our description and decided they didn't like it within 48 hours, that would be fair enough. If after 9 days they made that decision, I would probably be a little annoyed. 

i think squishys modification could work well especially for crews with limited sponsors, and use 2 as a sponsor/hand/cl to approve.

Part of the problem is as much the mentality of people being let into crews on the accept all as much as the jobs board users who do jobs for as many crews as possible, even if sorted for a home, just to do the jobs board.   When i have someone under invite approach me, i still talk to them as know personally how i have been sent an invite with very little vetting in the past even if i have said i think i am going to X,Y or Z.

Must admit would add an extra dynamic in war to anyone who didn't know a crew list.
 

I do think the free city idea has helped on the trying to change the mindset point, but i know my district has released a few people who could of been made capo or even boss just to help out a new crew(not returning after).   It is going to be the individual way though of someone thinking do i really want to lose x, or why i let y gain someone with this big a gun/donation/info skill when in the end if someone wants to go can just suicide out anyway.

I don't care for this idea personally. I think a major positive if it worked would be user retention. Automating these features creates a disconnect between the associate and really everyone else. The best way I have found to get someone new coming back again was to get them interested, that means learning game mechanics and how to succeed. This all comes from communication. I always like to have a fairly nice chat with any prospect and set forth any and all expectations up front so there are no major surprises after coming on board. I suppose we can list these all on the details page but I supposed I rather be little more personable than that. If it does happen though, I would be interested in which option gets the most new recruits(auto/boards).

Fitz, most don't actively recruit during war time unless it's someone they really knew died out of the family for this reason. And I'm sure if implemented would be turned off much like OCs are. 

How do we slowly convert over the mindset that anyone under wiseguy isnt "yours" and should be free to go (other than tradition) if we did code in an option 1?

Reply by: Squishy at Oct 03, '16 04:36

Could the buy out feature can be reintroduced and reworked to fit this purpose, with the value being user-set?

The core suggestion is interesting and would likely lead to better user-retention for newer users, but I would like to see a degree of control available to prevent crews from being overrun, and to also be considerate of crews who may not have a large sponsor base.  Perhaps there can be a limit set on how many users can join a family directly through this mechanism?  Once a new member has been integrated into the family, (e.g. produces a certain amount of earnings, activities) the space they occupy can be freed up and be made available to thee next round of potential recruits.  This would be null if the member becomes inactive for a certain period of time, but would allow a different form of pressure on the sponsor in lieu of simply turning off the sponsor's features - sponsors/mentors would now have a tangible goal that they need to achieve. 

I find it difficult to find leaders that actually allow you to leave. So auto joining them could do so much more harm then good.

If a new user auto joins someone and their leader is one that doesn't allow them to leave, they could end up dead. That may not keep that person coming back again if that is their experience.

I think allowing people to automatically join takes away from the aspect of the game. Yes, it might make it easier, but despite what others want to do with their time, this game IS centered on Roleplay. If you ran a business, legitimate or not, would you accept every Tom, Dick, and Harry that came through the door without even speaking to them? Or would you have a chat, get to know them, and see if they would be a fit?

I prefer to know people, see how they respond to things. An auto-join feature would completely detract from the immersion. Not everyone is cut out to join a criminal organization, and for that matter, no one gets an automatic ticket.

However, on a similar yet different note... I would -not- be against extending the 48 hour pro period for new characters to something a bit more substantial that gives players and CL's the time to vet more properly. Of course, like now, not all of the time has to be used. But it would give the option to allow players (especially new ones) a bit longer to understand and figure out the basics, along with picking the right crew.

Just my two cents, not that it may matter too much. :)

Much love from Detroit!

~Thomas

This is one of the better ideas ever brought up in the game suggestion forum.

I want to address the idea of making new accounts have more protection time. I think the simple solution is make them be a Thug for a longer period of time until they join a crew. If it was changed to say 7 days, I don't think the game would be seriously missing out on many +1s and when we can potentially create more retainability, I think its a too easy decision to push for change. Players would also have a much easier time shooting IAs and pretty much forgo the 4H tag, and killing innocents and so on. 

The overall idea to this is fantastic. I don't see any problems in it whatsoever. Some may say that some older leaders may be pissed if an associate wants to transfer to another crew. If someone wants to transfer to another crew, just tax them or do the buy out option like Daria mentioned. This is something that is currently being practiced in most crews; allowing associates to leave. 

I think the idea of allowing people the option to choose their crew from doing jobs, reading up on them is a great idea. Enough to even say that yes, every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be wanted to join a certain if they wanted to. After the process of them joining, its too easy to see if they'll be a fit. Again, they can transfer or heck they can even be removed. I think this even more so helps along the ways of truly earning your stripes. This should be a great way for new user retention as well.

I suggest people from around the word be able to come in and set up camp w/o being exploited (killed by gun happy c***s or p****S)
 

I say level the playing field by giving these  seasoned mobsters a chance to match you 100% before you get a fuzzy and warm feeling in your gun with those trumped BS reasons to kill.

What the fuck am I thinking?  
 

Slaps head and realizes this is noting but a dream.

With the current issues relating to invites/sponsorship etc. I wonder if this is worth another look?