I would ask that you gangsters think of the old country and why it was so difficult there. What was the problem with it? No space. There was no space to expand. No space to create or to try or to grow. The old ways were set, there could be no change. People worked to survive and nothing else.

Now I ask you, why did you all choose to leave the old country? Was it not because you wanted a chance? Why did so many of you who immigrated to our shores make such a radical change? To make a short answer, because you are pioneers! Or at the very least someone in your family was! They came from everything they knew to a place unknown and wild and tamed it. They stepped out an put themselves and their families on the line for nothing more than a chance! An opportunity!

Some of you look at Philly and see a failure. In other discussions your voices were heard to say that it was a "rouge free city". I appeal to you to look at it as your ancestors saw it when they stepped off the boat.. As an opportunity! You look on a city that has only a single family with not much going on. From your high rises, night clubs and casinos you see emptiness. I look out from my small apartment and see those night clubs and casinos. I see new CLs leaving the protection of their bosses HQs and stepping out! I see young and fresh men and women with vision and ability moving to add to our community. Instead of waiting on the sidelines, why not take initiative? Someone I care about once said, "The farmer who waits for perfect conditions, will never receive a harvest." It means that successes will not fall into your lap. They have to be earned. Just like the Dons and Godfathers of today had to work, so do we of the younger generation. 

Philly is a new frontier, it's good soil, it's a place to make a home. It's where I chose to plant my stake. I've only begun my life here, but already I'm starting to make myself known. Or at the very least I'm trying.

So what I would say to my betters, those who have done the work and put in the time it takes to become successful, would be simply this.. Don't shoot yourself in the foot and take away your future. Leave the frontier open to the newcomers and eventually they will build it into something the community can be proud of. Don't sell your field, before you see the harvest. 

Thank you for your time and consideration,

MiketheBear

I do not agree with shutting down the free city, we are flush with crews already. Currently when someone purchases a new HQ we see a few people transfer in from across the country and then they try their hardest to fill with new blood fresh from the old country. So this is already an immense challenge for anyone that wants to take it on in the first place. I think we have all seen how often these newcomers give the mob life a try and notice it just isn't quite for them and we never hear or see them again and there are plenty of these lying asleep throughout the country now. So I personally feel that the cons outweigh the pros in this as I see the chances of this becoming a plentiful city would be slim to none. As you travel around the country you will see that there are already many cities that are struggling to grow themselves and it would just make this even harder for them as the more crews that are out there the harder it is to get associates into your HQ actively working for you as everyone else is competing for them. I do not mind all these crews myself, but I think the focus should currently be keeping these young mobsters interested in this life we lead and let the crews, districts and cities that are struggling to grow a chance to grow. 

I hear what you are saying BobbyMunson but that would still be the case with a free city open. People can still set up and try to recruit.

In fact its a nice little challenge. You have to put in the work to recruit, there is nothing wrong with that.

As Bjorn had been in the background, minding his own drink and cigarette he heard a few familiar voices and saw rather more newer faces in this discussion. He decided to use the lull after his good friend BobbyMunson had spoken to jump to the stage and give a penny for his thought.

Dear all,

I would have to say i'm very surprised how this debate has been progressing. If I remember well how the original topic raised by ms Katelogan she said she would by no means want to have this debate to be a reflection on the efforts and skills of ms Tellurium, but the first 60% of this debate has purely been on this topic. We brought this subject to the streets after it was touched upon during the previous meeting of the existing family leaders. We believed bringing this for public debate would give us the views of all around not just us family leads who have made decisions whether we believe our operations would thrive best in a free city or protected one.

Yet I do not see any general speeches to discuss the topic in more holistic view taking in the total benefit or disadvantage of the free cities as a collective. One speech that stood out in terms of optimist was that of mr @Mikethe Bear whom I would like to applaud for his speech and enthusiasm.

Getting slowly to my opinion about free cities, apologies for digressing so far, is that they have been a great project. We have seen that mr ChristianGato has had an ambitious project in the fine district of Manhattan which due to the interest and willingness of younger generation of mobsters for the free cities has been cancelled due to interest. So we have seen ambitious, active and industrious young members of our society chosing to try their luck in a free city over a protected environment and coaching of a well respected godfather!!!

Now as we know the mind of the youth can be fickle and long term visions and retirement plans aren't on their mind and some have stumbled in a longer period. But again that I believe does not mean the free cities have not brought a big addition to the society. We have seen some good talents appear and still show they are very capable in running their families. Some of them even inspire such loyalty and respect that members of their own family, heck even people from other cities come to defend that person. 

Looking at the reason for closing down a city I see two main reasons:

1) lack of new blood to our shores

2) need for more room for protected families.

I will be rather blunt in answering these concerns:

1) Yes there isn't a big influx of migrants to our shores, or so called pioneers as we used to a few weeks back, but again if you have a strong vision, offer good chances to new recruits and have a good reputation or favor situation they should be not too difficult to recruit. Trust and encourage your members who are at the docks, airports, trainstations to pick off new talents, have them bring your message and vision and invigorate these weary travellers. Give them a warm message and promise of a better future

2) We have been discussing 1 elephant in the room, but I believe there are 2 elephants. When looking at the protected cities it is clear only 1 city is on the verge of having a problem of having no room for additional smart and enthusiast leaders to find a spot for their HQ. The other two cities still have room in their districts. Would it mean that all "non-free cities" would need 1 of the free cities being converted, I would not agree with that.

 In conclusion for me closing down a free city at this stage is not in the benefit of the society at large, whether this city should be PH, LA or LV it will be unfair to all leads currently representing those cities and having worked hard on establishing their operations there.

Hello everyone. Whoa what a discussion. I would like to add my small piece if i may. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a 'Free City' is a city that welcomes and encourages mafioso to better themselves. and learn the path. If that is the case then @Tellerium is doing a superb job, and more. Since i joined here and joined Tellurium's family, she has helped, encouraged and instructed not only me but a half-dozen of us fresh faces on how to be a 'good' Mafioso. Within the last week alone we have contributed to a fair few debates and stories on the streets and in the Business district.

We are only one crew, but are getting bolder and growing in confidence due to the support of all within the 'Entangled Elements'.

I don't want to say too much on the subject that has been mentioned of 'PH being a problem/rouge city', other than i think that is a unfair and un-educated. As PH is the most empty of the Free Cities it means it's the ideal place for someone to step-up and try to run a crew. Obviously some/most will fail (i can only guess that it's a lot harder than you think). So for that reason PH will probably always come across as the most problematic Free city.

In my opinion we should stay as a 'Free City', there is plenty of space for others (whether they be fresh or with the backing of another family) to come and ply their trade. This is of course a matter for the community at large and the Godfathers themselves to answer. I know that whatever happens i will follow and support my Family to the end.

Thanks for listening

Well it's hard for me to be totally impartial as i have watched the ups and downs of the free cities.   I have sat watching cities take pro's of war's they believe are coming, and members fall from badwolf and tonys crew where never got pro's for a war that was.  I have seen how people have conspired for their own power and others side how wonderous another city has seemed to hold a great stability.

We expected there would be blood with the free cities and we got it.  We always hope when we see these things, it will be something different, there will be candidates that seperate them and luckily has been some willing to stand back and question motives and not just jump in.   We have seen comments thrown at free city leaders and the confusion of the whole project and forever wondering who is or not in favour and at stages it just hasn't been pretty.

Personally i liked the idea of the free cities at the beginning as a hope those who never tasted leadership but had been so close, i liked the idea people who hadn't had chances would rise and show what they were capable of.   Little things over time bittered it to me but i still have a lot of hope for the project.   When you see funeral disrepect, members invited without any mails you ask questions it was something i asked a LV leader about once and of course got no answer.

The fact is the free cities can be shaped by choice and the favour/unfavour system but the truth is if you don't war and don't do anything too offensive, your pretty much safe anyway even if you contribute little and even if you make harmless screw ups.  I can understand why members of my crew said is not something they would do for various reasons but is a personal choice, or an only choice for power for some.  Fortune may favour the bold, but as we have seen as well daring leads to death.

I think the problem is you have two issues and one i expected to happen long ago in my talks with Dusty.  Some cities will want to expand and if we are not building power house cities will move and take a free district and build within it to eventually get Godfather/Godmother.   The theory is i could do it now just plonk my butt somewhere to take it with no ties to a city; would it be looked at as poor form maybe especially if someone had worked a city for a while.   The fact is sooner or later if traditional cities want to grow they will spread and choke out the free cities whether is soon or when people are nearer the rank.   I also believe as Godfathers become legitimate on reaching the pinnacle will be more eyes on them especially if a legitimate city and more moves scrutinised and people looking through their black books of past mis-deeds for some.

So as much as i love the idea of the free cities i honestly see the free city demands for now has dropped for now it seems.

1. The most out of favour crew step down and tell move into their spot.  Costs off transfer/fort repairs to be split between those moving into the city.

2. We combine free and traditional and hope support and guidance is given and resentment don't spart future issues especially when first to Godfather probably takes chairman.

3.  We leave things as they are, and wait for crews to move from traditional cities to the free cities just before godfather merely for the rank boost and title and expect the blood shed that comes with it.

I am sorry if three sounds a bit negative to some but i honestly think is a possible eventuality.  Eventually people will move out for power one way or another the only interest will be which side of the favour system either crew are on at the end.

To be honest I haven't read any of your responses so please forgive me.  However I feel that we should get rid of all but one free cities but one.  Perhaps PH since it's the most empty and can have room to grow for example.  In turn make the remaining cities traditional.  There's just not enough population in this thing of ours to spread out so much.  However that's just my opinion.  What do you all think?

Free city or traditional, the population problem will exist. I don't think that effects the situation at all. I don't see 3 free cities as a problem right now, so for me the answer is no, leave it as it currently sits.

I dont find it to be a good idea in my opinion noone is more deserving than Tellurium to run PH seeing that she put her Blood Sweat and Tears into this city she deserves her spot. i am usually pretty quiet but this is not a good idea, sorry

I say there will always be blood, no matter what happens. Keep it the same in my opinion at least, and I think the system works.

Before i go ahead and say what i want too and prostitution an idea to you all, i just want to say that in no way are my views related to the performance of Tellurium. Ive said it before and ill say it again, she is a bloody fantastic leader and that should be noted with whatever steps we take going forward. In no way do i think her operation should be disbanded. You could pick her and her own up and place her in any other city in our land and she will run it just as effectively.

Also before i start, one more point id like to address;

To be honest I haven't read any of your responses so please forgive me.   

 Fist-O-Pain i have to be honest, this is a piss-poor representation of yourself considering you was present at the meeting. Not to mention you're a crew leader in exactly the same position as those in PH. You should make the effort to stand and listen to those who make the effort to come out here and offer an opinion- poor form on your part- not that you'll read this, mind.  Anyway ill move on to the point at at hand 

I said it very early on that i thought 3 open cities might be pushing our community a little bit too far. I think having three open cities is counter productive to those "normal" cities. Two open cities is more than enough to offer something different. There would still be plenty of options for those who wish to don the bold suit. There would still be entertainment and bloodshed from the two cities. One of the underlying questions for me is; Are we really just trying to prevent "power cities" from forming or is it a real effort in giving opportunity? Personally, with three open cities, id go towards the latter part of that question. Which is fine i thats what people want but lets add an element of realism here. 

I think that by changing the dynamics of PH (not closing it) we can still find a medium between both. Im trying to think out of the box and use the much talked about favor system. Bare with me while i try to explain; 

Currently the pillars have sent out a questionnaire to those that they feel have contributed to the progression of the community. Within that questionnaire you're asked to highlight 3 people who you think have contributed a lot and why. It could be anyone here, it was your choice. Those who are in favor pick those they think are good enough to potentially carry the favor tag. That information will be collated over time periods to recognize trends. The community picking who they see as the better mobsters of this world.

My suggestion; Make PH an In Favor City.

So the pillars could collate the information they gather from the questionnaire and offer a district to those who repeatedly pop up as a name in favor, picked by the community. It could be that you pick one representative from each city that pops up on the questionnaire and place them all in a PH together.  This way, potentially we still dont create a super city. We could still be asking those who have never worked together before to do so and try operate the city as a conventional city, best they can.

Over time the people who are picked using the favor system who are put into PH have to stay in favor, they have to work hard to keep their names on that list. If they dont then they put their position in jeopardy and potentially are removable crew because they haven't done enough to stay in favor.  Obviously this method is open to abuse to get a Crew leader in place but the whole idea behind it will see those people exposed-when they fall out of favor for not doing enough. 

A system like this would negate @Greens issue of why bother- which to be honest with the current situation, i agree with you. But thats not to say ill sit back an accept it. There are plenty of pro's and con's for this idea. All additional feedback will be massively welcome. However i do think we will benefit from changing how PH operates rather than closing it.  

insta I must say I really like this change in energy and terminology regarding Philly....you don't shut up shop you think outside of the box and work on resolving things, developing and changing. I really like your suggestion and also that you note to stay in favour you have to keep working bloody hard too. I have never been a lazy crew member or crew leader so this is something I embrace as a concept for sure.

I think there has been a misconception that we are 'closed' here and are resistant to 'outsiders' - to be honest nothing could be further from the truth....I have alluded and really can't say any more than, this worlds words limit me some and I dearly wish that wasn't the case as it would all become very clear very quickly.

We would love some neighbours please!! We will supply the booze for the party.

I have to also say my family have made me so fucking proud out here!!! Many / all have been scared to speak because of some of the senseless campaigns and very negative and bold words directed at us here...we have held our own with respect I think....we have worked hard on building confidence here, in training and teaching how to speak in back alleys and coffee shops.....some have to learn they will not get shot like in days gone by just for words if they are true, from the heart and respectful and some just yet have to learn to love their voice.

If that to the community sounds like a leader that needs to be moved then fair play....this world is not neat and it is bloody hard work, I have worked my ass off here and am rewarded with fabulous crew loyalty. We welcome any / all / whoever here with open arms and a level playing field....as I eluded too the reality of events in Philly may surprise some and actually we are simply are a great group of peeps who work hard and sometimes play hard too.

insta so far in this conversation this to me sounds very appealing not least because I know we work our asses off here so would not be worried at all for the need to keep staying in focus and heard and lively and appropriate and also because I know I am a leader that can adapt so if we need to adapt we will, I have the communication and leadership to effect that without issue ever.

Loving the open debate and bloody loving hearing some of my guys new voices here!! I know you were nervous so well fucking done all of you!! < 3

How does We welcome any / all / whoever here with open arms and a level playing field corroborate with selectively recruiting?

paytoplay I have no idea what that comment means....could you re-word it please so I can answer you?

I'm nae sure how much me word means, but I do'nae think tha free cities need ta be goin' anywhere. Tá, it makes fer lo's o' shite leaders in it's open, welcome all, sense... But fer all tha shite that comes from it, ya get some gems.

I know we be worried about fillin' tha streets wit' mafiosa, but bein' a lit'l spread is'nae necessarily a bad thin'. Back in Éire, one man could roost tha' whole city an' bring tha rebel out o' everyone.

I like Insta's idea about makin' tha city an in favor one, though. That could help repopulate tha right way.

An' just ta clarify, I don' aim ta be callin' any o' tha current leaders shite... Just that there be potential fer shite leaders ta come o' tha free city. Just makin' sure tha's clear.