Torak would quickly like to step up after Tony's speech and reassure everyone that everyone has their own options and ways of talking, this can come across differently to what they intended. We here in no way are envisioning a war or any sort of violence form this discussion or it outcome.

Thank you

KateLogan, thank you for bringing this debate to the streets. I feel that it is certainly something which is great to gain the view of the wider community as opposed to having it simply decided by those in power, due to the potential impact it has on our world.

As MavisBeacon briefly touched on, one point does spring out to me. You stated, "There may be ties to the city they come from, but there's an expectation of independence as well". Now, this is something which has previously lead to entire Cities being wiped out in the past due to the inability to fend off the sheer numbers from an attack by multiple cities. Whilst I appreciate the expectation of independence, it doesn't always work out that way and it has the potential to lead to large volumes of blood shed once again. However, if this part of the process is reviewed and managed carefully, then I see no issues with it.

In regards to PH and Tellurium, I would agree with the many voices who have already come out to praise her for the work she has done in Philly. She has always given 110% and tried to resolve matters that arose in an amicable manner. Should a decision be made to disolve the free city status of PH, then I feel she should be rewarded for her efforts, not asked to simply shut shop and move out.

For the points made about finding individuals new to this world, it is simply part of the life we live. There will always be civilians keen to try their hand at the mafia life, only to quickly realise that they cant handle it. This will never change. However, having a drive towards recruitment and ensuring that you help guide and tutor these fresh souls, means that over time this can change. It doesn't need to happen in 24hr, not even in a week. If you have the structure in place to reward those who give effort, then your numbers will slowly fill providing you are actively involved in this aspect.

As usual, AurelianoBuendia steps up a little late.. After many have already spoken, having nodded and smiled whilst BrotherHec spoke, he raised his voice as well..

Firstly, I would like to thank KateLogan for bringing this discussion to the streets.

Let me first reply to some of you personally, before I give my totally unbiased opinion on the matter..
Aureliano winks, although he noticed Don Karen might have taken that wink personal, as he unintentionally looked her straight in the eyes as he did.

Quickly he adds: Karen , I don't see negativity in what you said. We choose a lifestyle, we didn't join the boy scouts. There will be bloodshed anyway, as FelixDarkstar stated.

Continuing..
..a point you make, Ms Logan, is the benefit of the community as a whole. In my view, this can not be separated from the situation of the Entangled Elements, as posed changes would influence Tellurium 's whole crew massively. So I get Bjorn_Ironside 's initial remark on that, yet it is inevitable.

I get even more proud of my CL Tellurium , when I hear kind voices like that of LucioOtiag . Of course I would support Tellurium being handed the keys of the city of Philadelphia, but it would be obviously a very biased reason, if I agreed on that out loud.
..Aureliano raises his eyebrows, as he just contradicted himself..

..Anyway.. Turning his attention to Dusty , I am not sure if I should be giving a short history on recent Philly events and our role in these or not, I am pretty sure you understand most of what happened, why people moved in and why people moved away again, so I will skip that part. Bottom line is we are respecting the rules of the Free City. And I think one city holding leadership over another will not benefit the community.

Recently, there were people about to come over to Philadelphia and become our neighbors. They asked respectfully, even though they could have just claimed some turf. We were enthusiastic about their supposed arrival. Just then, this discussion started and apparently this has put them off. I like your idea of different cities filling Philly's districts, Dusty . Yet, open is open, so I wouldn't even be opposed to both other districts filled by people coming from the same place. Looking at Walter_Blunt , this city is a free one, why discuss who will send whom? As MiketheBear said in a way I could never say that beautifully, it is an opportunity for the adventurous.

That brings me to Olympia- , Aureliano nods at her and asks, why would this city require a Godfather at this time?

.. AurelianoBuendia notices people losing interest in his talking and does a little tap-dance in between, then continues..

Dear FitzChivalry . Maybe it is a weird way of thinking, but could we also turn this problem you address around? As the closed cities are full, and the open cities aren't. We could also be limiting the amount of crews in the traditional cities instead?

Aureliano looks at Chong next. I agree on where you think the decision lays. And thank you for your concern, but I may add we know the  safety issues of this world of ours anyway. Maybe MavisBeacon is right, a traditional city is generally more likely to grow into a "power" city, and from a free city it will be harder and longer, but I don't think it would be impossible. Time will tell. Mercedes_Kompressor , you may be right, things may naturally revert back to six 'traditional' cities. But it isn't about where it will end at the moment, is it? It's about the path that gets you there.

Shifting views again, this time to BobbyMunson , Aureliano continues: I think we are doing a good job for our community, we have a nice blend of people that we got fresh from the boat and some that grew up in this thing. And I am sure we feel well here in PH. And to see what is good for our community, I think it is better to have more crews that actively recruit than everybody packed in a couple of cities with noone caring for new arrivals. I agree with LucioOtiag on the population problem, it will stay existent. But more cities with more crews would mean more jobs. I see it as a positive thing myself. Aureliano lightly bends at Bjorn_Ironside , what a lovely speech you made. I agree to your conclusions.

Then I heard a very interesting story from insta . I really like the idea of giving power to community-favoured people. I like the positive stimulus on street activity. Maybe we could draw agenda's soon and talk about this one some more?

Concluding.. Personally, I would see removing Tellurium from Philadelphia as ripping the heart out of this single crew mentioned here today. The Entangled Elements are part of this world of ours and being informed by my ancestors, I dare say it is one of the closest, warmest crews my bloodline have ever encountered. I am proud of my crew. I am proud of them showing on here. Thank you for that,
FishTheKitty , Tellurium , Woltrazz , Cassidy , Torak , sshh , Jezebel- , and thank you Angelo_Scaletta for your beautiful words: I am honored to be an Entangled Element. And I feel this crew belongs to Philadelphia.

Hence my concise answer to the question is simply.. With a little mean smile AurelianoBuendia claps loudly to also attract Fist-O-Pain 's attention

..No

Aureliano is sorry he didn't understand a word of what he think was Bishop 's Irish and steps back..

I think many of us are forgetting the purpose of why this system was put in to place. The main reasoning is that we should aim to contribute to the community. If the crew leader slots aren't full then there's no real need to contribute.

At this point our main aim should be to fill the slots, once they're full then we will see the benefits of being protected vs unprotected. With this in mind, closing a city down, preferably PH would be the ideal solution as there is only one leader currently residing there. I'm not sure what the issue with moving is, I'm sure is could be funded by the pillars and so Tellurium needn't put a hand in her pocket. She could even relocate to a central district if that was the issue, both LA and LV have a slot open for a CL to join them within their central districts if this is the problem. Other than that I'm not sure why there would be an issue around it other than a personal preference. It's hardly a thriving city right now so I just don't see the big attraction with staying there.

With that said if she did feel that strongly about remaining in Philly, maybe leave her there and carry on without her but with the city closed to any more free auths.

Wow. Lot of people have given some excellent thoughts and opinions on this so far. Fantastic to see and just shows that the decision taken at the meeting to share this with the wider community was the correct one. That said; I do feel for the current inhabitants of Philly as this is very much a finger in the face to them - even though the choice is whether to remove a Free City and not whether to alter Philly.

I apologise if I repeat/echoe any sentiments from others, I often wouldnt speak at all when doing so, but with this being such an important topic I feel its best that I continue with my own thoughts regardless and simply add weight to those spoken if it matches theirs.

Firstly, I'd like to simply state that I personally don't feel the need for any drastic changes. We continue to hear people speak about the fact there is a lack of growth in Philly, or that there is only 1 leader there and so we need to do something else with the City. What I wonder about that is Why? Why is that an issue? We have more than enough space across the 6 cities currently for familys to still fill up and this is giving plenty of option to those looking for a family currently. So I dont understand why the perception is that something needs to change to help more growth when currently the situation as it is can support the current requirements for growth.

I think my old friend insta has previously touched on the fact that people would like to spread their wings in the conventional manner of being authed in what they consider to be an extension of their own family, as with Chicago being unable/unwiling to expand further at this time that limits the chances for people to do that there and becomes a reason for people wanting a city to be opened up to allow for a "real" city instead of a free one. However, again I ask why these people don't simply move to Philly for this deserved shot at leadership? is it that they are scared of leaving the comfort of having so much protection behind them?

I left Chicago, as did Green. Both of us I would think have managed to get out there and support ourselves well with the limited resources we have and I see no reason why others couldn't do that. I would much prefer things to be left alone as they are if i'm 100% honest. I would like to see those that are feeling the need to spread their wings to just do so. There is space in LA, LV and Philly so please go ahead and seek that permission and make the move out there on your own and help us all grow, instead of sitting back and waiting on Auth in your own City or indeed a city deemed as an extension of that one - which lets face it, is the only alternatives.

This world is always evolving and I think the enviroment created now with the free cities is exactly what we need, I dont believe reducing that helps us at all but instead simply brings us a step back into the old way of thinking where a leader can only step up when supported by his family still. We need the floor to be open to the masses, not simply the chosen ones. A lot of people might take umbrage with that last comment, but the fact remains that it isn't always the hardest workers that are given the permission to step up and is often simply bloodline related. I know from reading my fathers journals that his lineage have seen auth on many occassions and on most it would certainly seem like he had earned it, but I'm sure there are times where others in the same family may have done as much if not more to merit their own chance and my lineage were given the nod before them due to the proven nature of their ability to lead. I think we'd be falling back into that trap now if we removed a free city.

Soooo in short, my thoughts on this are that we should leave things as they are and simply encourage those among us with the desire to lead a family to get out there and do it. insta, I dont want to point fingers again but I would LOVE to see you out there among us as a leader, same goes for Dusty. I'm sure i'm not alone in noticing the frequency of your voices being heard in the streets and that is something this world lacks at times, so to have another couple of faces that are making the effort to get out there with their voice AND to lead a family, that would please me greatly.

lastly; Thank you Kate for taking the time to bring the topic to the streets. When the suggestion to do so was made I couldn't have picked a better name for the job and was delighted when you offered to step up and produce this debate.

I believe the favor system was a way to deal with conflicts when they should arise FitzChivalry, not the meat of the free city system. That is my understanding at least. I don't believe that GF Oakheart and Don Gato devised a system that was intent on creating constant bloodshed. The system was there so that it would encourage people to interact with the community more and breath more life into this thing we do.

Insta your idea is interesting however I feel its biggest flaw will be in participation. Getting the entire community to participate in the voting will be really hard. So when it is just the same 10-15 individuals voting it will be hard to accurately get a feel for the communities opinions on who is deserving and who is not.

I would like to say something. To my knowledge it seems more people are for the free city then against it, however even if everyone agreed that they wanted to see a free city removed, I do not feel its right to make Tellurium move.

I have friends who work for her and there is no looking past the hard work she has put in to make her family what it is today. She has a heart for Philly and for her family and I think when it comes to being a leader, that's all you can ask for. You need to give credit where its due, and if Tellurium was asked to move I feel it would be a slap in the face for everything she has done. This is a touchy subject so I do not want to say to much, just wanted to give my opinion by stating Tellurium has worked hard to be where she is and should be able to continue where she is.

I agree with what Slash has said and like him i wouldn't normally bother comming to the streats only to echo somebody else. But i do feel there are still plenty of spots open for new crew leaders to set up and stake their claim if they so wish.I imagine someone capable of being a good crew leader would be able to build something great regardless if it was a 'free city' or not.

It is a difficult decision and one must respect the Godfather council for facing it head on.

I do find the fact that even though this discussion is still in its infancy,  already close to a third of Teleriums members have come here to voice an opinion and i do wonder if it were another crewleader in discussion, whether 'free city' or established, if there would be the same level of attendance.

If this debate is based off of population of the site. I would love to populate Philly alongside Tellurium! I would be willing to set up shop and bring in some new blood!

Two more things i will mention regarding population which does make me a little curious.

1. If everyone shot their crew ia's would the movement be such an issue space wise.
2. Do we see new crews especially the free cities bringing in fresh faces and increasing population, covering more recruitment times, encouraging people back to the life of crime or just recycling round the population we have?

The issue with closing one free city must be made carefully and we must also weigh in on the population of the other cities that remain free, is it fair to close one and hand it over to a barely populated leader where the other cities that are flourishing get essentially punished for being a success? If a free city is closed and someone is taking part in the free city in my opinion they must be made to move 

The reason for this is they've chosen to take part in a project and the project itself may be modified at anytime and in order to keep yourself as part if the project you must accommodate it's requirements

Can we really say which free city clearly has earned a spot to become a non free city without removal...yes we can the city that we have seen so little issue with is LA in my opinion there has been no real wars or enough death to lump them in with the others so perhaps handing the reigns of LA to its current leaders is the best choice as it will not only show that hard work and full cities are rewarded it will also narrow down 3 free cities to 2 free cities like initially discussed and then in the future we can address the opening of either LV or PH to be a non free city based on the term of growth shown within the city

I'll straight to the point. Most of us who knows our family surely will agree on that this should stay a free city, and we even welcome anyone who will come from other cities, and hey the more the merrier ain't that right Capo?

Looks and smiles at Woltrazz for a second.

This family makes me feel whole again, we help each other, support to each other and what not.

Glances at FishTheKitty.

They even let a young turks like me sits and speaks in beef like now. But hey I'm just a small guy, I will respect what ever the outcome is. But if it's something that contradicts with our family's well being, I will find you, and I will...

Tell yells at him saying dinner's ready, and he hurries out there to get something before the others.

By the simple name and nature of the subject posed, I am afraid we will move sometime soon (a very relative point in time) to a world of anarchy where free cities are last cause for concern... I am sure that at that precise time, the good people who reside there, and who weren't aware they leaders, chosen from other specific non-free 'milieu" would get "rogue", fed up with being threatened of being erased and treated as a lesser being, and start shooting at others, be it for protection or a kill. It won't happen anytime soon, don't worry, but at some point of time, when the circumstances are right, it may be excusable.

When will you people learn to respect all those men and women of honor, victims of their leaders' lunacy wars? They are just said from their bringing to life they must obey orders, and they do. Shall we disrespect them for that?

No. Certainly not. I respect that. I respect the right to develop in life. I respect life evolution. Do you?

PresidentDonaldTrump had been standing in the back, listening to a lot of good arguments.
 

The only reason I can see for closing a free city at this time would be the need to setup people from a currently "full" city.
I am not trying to imply anything nor do i want to point fingers. I am only looking at the current state of the country. That would undermine the reasons for having those free cities in the first place, to have opportunities for people to grow and create something new. Not as an extension of a protected city. 

Furthermore I feel that there has been no failure on behalf of the free cities of such a magnitude that it would justify closing one of them, so it wouldn't be fair to those still residing there. I feel closing any of the free cities could have a negative impact on free city moral in general. 

As Slash has touched previously, I would like it better to see those that seek a place to setup do so in one of the three free cities.

Before i join the crowd again I tip my wig in the direction of KateLogan for opening up this fruitful discussion!

I believe the favor system was a way to deal with conflicts when they should arise FitzChivalry, not the meat of the free city system. That is my understanding at least. I don't believe that GF Oakheart and Don Gato devised a system that was intent on creating constant bloodshed. The system was there so that it would encourage people to interact with the community more and breath more life into this thing we do. - LucioOtiag

Where did I say I wanted constant bloodshed? I'm not sure how you've translated my words to mean that.

I'll refer you to part of my previous statement:

I think many of us are forgetting the purpose of why this system was put in to place. The main reasoning is that we should aim to contribute to the community. If the crew leader slots aren't full then there's no real need to contribute.

 Pretty much in line with what you feel the system is for, no?

So, I just want to take a moment to put to rest what seems to be a repeated implication in this conversation. Chicago is not full. If Godfather Nakamura wanted to expand in CH, there is still room to do so. Are we perhaps the biggest city, population wise, in this world of ours? Sure. We grew quickly after the last set of major wars left so many homeless. It was the right move to make to help the community at the time, as homes were needed.

In my personal conversations with our GFC, it is clear he has no plans to expand, instead wanting to focus on continuing to build the community. I think you can see proof of this when you realize how many former Chicago members are now spread out across the free cities. If there is an eager individual within Chicago that wishes to start a family of their own, they are encouraged to utilize this opportunity within the free cities to form their crew. I hesitated to speak at all as I don’t want people to assume that I’m overstepping my bounds, but given that Godfather Nakamura had to leave our shores for a short time and is unable to share his thoughts, I wanted to be able to share the impression that he has left with me during our many conversations.

Now, on whether or not to close PH, my vote would be no. Leave things as they are. We’re bound to see ups and downs with any new system and to give up when things seem to hit a rough patch or when interest doesn’t seem as high as it once was, doesn’t seem to be the answer. If we truly want change, we have to stick with that change and see it through. Let’s try and address why people aren’t stepping up as eagerly as they were at the beginning of the project instead of just throwing our hands up and starting to close down cities. The favor idea isn’t a bad one, but I’d be more curious to know why people who want crews are hesitating to come forward. If the community voted on people that are found to be in high favor, and those individuals do indeed want a crew to lead, why would it take a community vote for them to decide to establish a crew? If they are active members of this community and are in favor of this new way of doing things, why don't they simply form their crew without some sort of vote or guarantee that they would start off in favor?