After recent discussions I thought I would bring this one to the streets. So often we find people landing themselves in this position, some work for it, others not so much. I heard a lot about men who did not wish to take on the role until they had reached a higher standard of goals for themselves then just being able to lug around 60 units of drugs and manage to live for 120 days in this community. There was so much more to them that they wanted to achieve before taking on the rank.

We've seen talks about standards when it comes to ranks. We all know that each crew leader can make their own set of rules or lack of for promotions to Made Men and higher but we never really look at the biggest role. The ultimate Godfather of each city.

Do we as a community just go with the bare basics or do you think there is a need for there to be standards besides luck to be placed here? With the ability for so many godfathers do we lack any care about them? What they truly do? Is this just a free run for people to do absolutely nothing?

In this community I respected those that put in effort. The ones that even though luck and strategy got them to the top they didn't immediately rush in and take it. I understand the benefits of going ahead and taking whatever it is that is available, but is this the right way?

In some ways I feel like the rush diminishes the rank. With the rank itself diminished is there any real respect for the Chairman part or is it just a fancy term?

I'd be interested to see what everyone else thought about it.

I think there's quite a difference between taking on a role as Godfather Chairmen and getting the Made Man promotion. Getting the button is at a point in a mafioso's life when they are effectively a grunt with everything to prove - with the promotion rightfully, entirely up to their crew leader.

By definition, when somebody takes on the rank as Godfather Chairmen, they don't have a boss and in my opinion are free to make that power move. Although they have this right, any wise leader making this move would surely consult the opinion of their fellow district leaders. 

Having said that, I think that making this move is none of the business of anyone outside of their city. In the past, some have chosen to delay taking on this position because they might feel they haven't added enough value to society (whatever the fuck that means). This is their decision, but I don't feel it should be a precedent for others. 

I dont really understand the logic of holding off taking a Godfather position until "they reached a higher standard of goals" isn't this a counter productive measure? 

Let me try to explain what i mean a bit more comprehensively; Its been pointed out that the position of Godfather is a prestigious one, its a position of power within our world. The rank holds weight across all our cities, its a position that no matter the hows or wheres or the whens, people will sit up and take not of- we agree on its stature and what position gives you across the land. We agree the leverage that it gives you, the title alone stands for itself- regardless of if you think they got there on merit or not. Its national recognized as a position of power, yes? 

So knowing what the position does for you and how people respond to it surely it would make much more sense to take it and then achieve the higher standards that you want. It would be a feasible thought process to say that achieving anything here or changing how we work would be a much easier system to implement if you already hold the title of Godfather- A worldly recognized title. Even if that person is only worthy of the title, they still hold it and it carries a lot of power. Thats why i think its counter productive to try to achieve these higher standards without taking the roll, if a person can indeed take it.  

It would be naive to think that every crew leader who has the capability to take the Godfather roll wont take it, if they have all the required attributes to- they will.  

In this community I respected those that put in effort. The ones that even though luck and strategy got them to the top they didn't immediately rush in and take it. I understand the benefits of going ahead and taking whatever it is that is available, but is this the right way?

I agree, i also applaud those who work their socks off and put the effort in but sometimes that just doesn't cut it, does it? You need an element of luck and plenty of strategic nous, of course you do. People who rise and stay at the top dont do it by making daisy chains and sitting round a camp fire holding hands. 

I just think holding off taking gf is a counter productive operation if it is that you want to achieve a higher purpose, surely holding the highest and biggest position that you can will help you achieve the things you want. 

Why is it none of anyone's business what they see from certain ranks? We all know that we learn from what others do not what they say.. So if they are not putting in the work, why would anyone else?

Made Man is a very valuable rank as are the ones that come after it. In a family you need to work for those. If your leader says you need to do x, y and z for promotions then I would surely hope they know how to do x, y and z themselves too. I mean it is unrealistic to want someone to do something that you are not willing to do yourself. Well I think the same applies for Godfathers. They are at the top, in some ways they have lots of bosses and none. I mean obviously people can't tell them exactly what to do but I would think they are held to some degree of standards. Those standards would ultimately cause the demise of people later on down the road. Surely not everyone lives forever, right?

I am not particular sure what making daisy chains really has to do with effort. Maybe that is a way of stating that work means very little when in fact I feel it should mean a hell of a lot more. You don't need to sit down and make everyone happy to put in some effort. To show some communication, to act in ways that inspire people, etc.

I just feel like the rank of Godfather or Godfather Chairman should mean more than simple luck.

When you become a crew leader do you suddenly stop working? I doubt it. You now have a family to grow and teach. Just because someone stuck you in that shiny bold suit doesn't mean they thought to give you a free ride to money for Bodyguards and setting your next of kin up. They thought you were valuable enough to teach new people to the shores. Perhaps that you could even be a better part of the community in some way.

I don't think all of that stops just because you reached the highest rank. If it does, then perhaps that rank was never meant for you?

When you become a crew leader do you suddenly stop working? I doubt it. You now have a family to grow and teach. Just because someone stuck you in that shiny bold suit doesn't mean they thought to give you a free ride to money for Bodyguards and setting your next of kin up. They thought you were valuable enough to teach new people to the shores. Perhaps that you could even be a better part of the community in some way.

I don't think all of that stops just because you reached the highest rank. If it does, then perhaps that rank was never meant for you?

You've completely misheard what i meant. In fact its the complete opposite to what you think. What i said was a reaction to you thinking that holding yourself back from a Godfather promotion until you have achieved ground breaking results. What i have said is thats counter productive. Surely to achieve more, you will be much better positioned as a Godfather.

You have, yourself, identified the importance of the role. I never once said the work stops, if you listen well, i have said the work begins, or at least carries on. It carries on to the next step because you have gained that rank.  A rank that will allow you to do much more. So im not saying it stops, im saying it should propel you to be able to do more. see what im saying? and why i think its a counter productive method to not take it? 

Ah space pole perhaps I misheard, thank you for clarifying on your points a bit though. I think I understand what you were getting at much better.

BobbyMunson, maybe they have, maybe they haven't. But what if they actually haven't? We have seen some leaders put so much more effort then others. Some got lucky. Some got their spots handed to them on a silver platter. Whatever the case, not everyone has always earned what they have gotten. Sometimes luck plays a huge part.

I thank you for your views but they are very narrow minded in the aspect that it feels like you don't allow questions. Why should people not question? As Tammy said the value of any rank is placed on the thoughts of the community as a whole. So if the community as a whole feels people undeserving of ranks reach them, surely they will not value the rank right? Seems logical to me.

You should be questioned if they have valid reasons for bringing up such a conversation. It may not mean they feel entitled. Perhaps from what they do see, they do the same amount of work. Why is it wrong to question it? People can only take from their observations.
Not everyone knows what will happen. You are right it is not always fair, but what does fair have to do with effort? If you are promoting your best friend in the business over someone whose working hard I would say they have every right to question you.

Now if during this conversation they appear to feel entitled then by all means do as you see fit. If you can't handle being asked questions how is anyone to actually learn from you? That seems a bit unrealistic and down right tyrant. Again just basing it off information and examples you are giving so I am not saying you are these things but you come across as them with these facts and examples.

Please don't assume what I would or would not like. I am all for people questioning things, raising standards and not settling for mediocre. If that means I hurt some feelings or come across as people voting on things then so be it. I prefer to think we all have brains that we can use and we are not robots to just pay for our leaders bodyguards.

Have I asked for anyone specific to step down? I am asking about the rank itself. If you are upset by this and feel like questions should not be asked then that is your opinion. You are entitled to that, but I don't feel everyone has to follow suit or that people should not ask questions. Let's be realistic shall we? If people don't want someone as a godfather they will meet their death as they usual do. No one lives forever. Its not about hand holding or voting. Its about being able to speak your mind without fear, to ask questions, to be something other than a robot behind closed doors. I prefer not to be another number, but a voice.

This is the first topic that I have brought up. Have I been speaking in my sleep and not known about it?

There should be a freedom of speech though. Is that not what was agreed upon? That people should not be scared to speak in the streets? If I had come out here and was "JoeBlow is such a horrible Godfather" then I would see your point. Sure that should not be allowed but that is not what was said nor how the discussion's tone was. It is not an attack, its a conversation topic of something that I had been thinking about. As I am sure you have seen topics relating to value of Made Man, surely having an even greater rank should be valued more, but that value comes with effort.

You can choose my words to hold no weight. But you do not get to choose whether I am allowed to have a voice and speak.

 BobbyMunson i dont really know where i begin to even try to digest what you have said, please bare with me 

ill start with this; 

I believe it's no ones business as to what The Godfather's do for the fact that they obviously put in the work to attain the rank so they can pretty much do as they please. If you and everyone else doesn't like it, tough shit get over it or bitch about it but they will keep on keeping on however they like.

 Why isnt it anyone else business? That logic is lost me, if im brutal with you! You're a LEADER- the clue is pretty much in the name. You take the choice to lead when you put on that bold suit. You're the leaders of this world, people look to you for answers, they look to you for help. Leaders are the very fabric of how this world governs and i taking the opportunity to set up your own organisation you accept that you will thrust your self into the lime light and in doing so you become a beacon for those who dont have their own HQ. Even for people outside of your family. 

Just like in the real world, a boss knows and most likely has done your position before, should he be expected to anymore? No, he shouldn't. He's put his time in and is now in charge of operations. 

So because they have done the ground work there is no need to be a person who helps. Do you not have to show people best practices moving forward?

Feel free to go up to him and voice your concerns about them doing noticably nothing, Im sure whoever tries this will be finding themselves a new nine to five in short order. Just like in a job setting, you're not in a position to question these people.

And why the bloody hell not? Why cant we ask questions. Why cant we show concerns? What you are not understanding is you have been chosen to lead, to lead this thing of ours into a new era and all i can see is someone who is completely disenfranchised from a correct way, in going forward?  

Im so lost on your logic on communicating with upper structures of this world. I just dont get it! We need to breed behaviors that do question the norm, behaviors that allow for crew leaders to be put to task, like i am to you now. I have conviction in what im saying to you, like my line always has. I have never been so flummoxed as to your logic here.

I get the stance of "this is the mafia bitch" blah blah etc etc and i agree with you but i most certainly wouldnt have that approach when dealing with members of the community who dont hold a prestigious position and there lack of being able to question the system. More or so just because i am of a certain rank, thats quite ridiculous. If you dont like being put to task or you dont accept that members lower than yourself can ask questions, then im not sure where i even go from there. I thought we were a progressive-move forward kind of community. Obviously not, which is a huge shame. If an unmade member of this society, like me, can put you to task without being rude or disrespectful, surely as a community we need to embrace that and encourage growth. Not stunt it by saying..."fuck you little wise guy" come back when you're a made man? 

i think anyone who adopts such practices as this does have a very narrow mind and i think its a very naive way of attacking things, a way that will only discourage from the streets, one of the very fabrics of our way. Thats real shame here. 

I believe that you have a fascination for bloodlines that holds no weight on the discussion. What my bloodline has or hasn't done is not relevant in this discussion. I, myself, have not crossed a line. I have not called out names nor said any specific leaders were bad. In fact I haven't acknowledged any names. Can I be specific? Sure, but that is irrelevant to my discussion as well and therefore I went the route I did to avoid disrespect.

If you feel it is in place of the current crop it can be assumed that you feel guilty or are viewing certain people yourself that way. That is not my problem, but in fact yours.  I mean we can all make assumptions, we can all call disrespect on just about anything. I could go so far as to say you are being bloodlining and disrespectful towards me, but I don't. You know why? Just because I say something doesn't make it true which is the case in almost anything.

As far as questioning goes, everyone has that right. Why should there be less expectations the higher you go in the ranks? More would seem much more accurate. When you look to join someone you should ask them questions, and they should in turn ask you some back. It is an exchange and a much better understanding of what you are walking into. I rather know what that is ahead of time then later on when it is far too late.