Thank you for your valuable contribution, Tilly.

They say that actions speak louder than words, and I feel as though one word or facial expression can really say quite a bit. It's my opinion that my frown was really an awfully expressive contribution, indeed.

=]

Well, I guess that one can just pull off anything when one is the editor of a successful paper these days, or maybe times have changed. Back when I was still learning the ropes, "one liners" (let alone a single word or facial expresion) was considered lazy and unacceptable.

I'm glad things have changed so much that I can now not just avoid the speeches I find questionable but I can just frown in disapproval and not be considered a lazy good for nothing.

As a Godfather to a city and overall rule maker in this world i'd say that opinions such as the one you expressed need to be enforced. You say it's lazy and unacceptable. You are right. Is standing by and allowing it to happen the same? Where theres a will there is a way and it can easily be remedied by yourself. After all, there are only three other people who can oppose what you say and i'd wage none of them will.

What say thee? Time to teach some sprogs that a facial expression says absolutely jack shit?

I feel I should apologise.

I was attempting humour, but I've apparently not put that across very well and it has missed the mark.

However, with that said there are a few things I would like to raise:

1) I already responded to this and like the majority of my contributions in these Streets, it was accurate. I didn't feel like going into a very lengthy response, but I'm fairly certain I got the job done. It was also covered in greater detail in that successful paper that I edit.

2) You decided to take exception to the contribution of someone who had added nothing to the discussion. That would have been acceptable provided you had added anything to the discussion yourself, yet you have not. I have.

3) If back when you learned the ropes "one liners" happened to be considered lazy and unacceptable, why did you proceed to add one to this discussion, prior to raising that very point? If you took such offense to one liners or facial expressions from me, to a discussion I'd already added an opinion on, why compound the laziness and unacceptability further by doing the same?

4) If I could pull off anything, I certainly wouldn't waste that talent getting away with lazy or unacceptable response. I'd transform Colin into a respectable being.

Scandia, your response was rather impressive and I agreed with it. However, I had to wait for Gwarble's response. You see, as a CL from the same city as Tilly, I needed to figure out if he was trying to joke with me or actually was taking a stance in protecting a member from his city from my criticism. I see it was the former. My rather nasty comment was just an attempt to fish for the extra information I needed and I appreciate Gwarble coming out here clarifying what he meant.

As to your recent comments, all I can say at this time is that I sort of reacted to what I saw. When I hear or see something that inspires me I can be rather "wordy". However, in this case, I didn't feel like investing too much time on a point that didn't really need all that much effort anyway. And just to see her just defend what she did afterward? I would have been rather frustrated to invest a lot of energy just to see that my point doesn't seem to have been made across to her.

And don't beat yourself up, Gwarble. We all know you are very talented, but expecting to be able to transform Colin into a respectable being is nothing short of expoecting to be able to perform a miracle.

Putting aside the frown - which is barely worthy of note in the first place and could be read in half a dozen different ways depending on your stance - now would be a fine time to point out that just because a contribution is brief, or succinct to the point of being a single word/expression, doesn't mean it should considered as lazy or unacceptable as a rule. Not in the slightest. That would be very shaky ground and wholly incorrect. Why should something be beefed out to a half-minute waffle just so it sounds/looks the part if someone can convey their feelings or thoughts by a single-second effort?

There is a world of difference between doing that and the making the type of retorts that ARE lazy and unacceptable; usually those along the lines of "nice read" or "good story". Length of contribution has very little to do with it actually. The thought behind it has far more relevance.

Speaking of the thought behind things, CrazyNine read Tilly's frown as disapproving and I can see why. I can also see why it would be read in other ways that're not necessarily disapproving. I'm sure Tilly, as a Made Man in New York, knows that it's not her place to disapprove or comment on other city's decisions, so I suspect it's more a case of frowning at the loss of a friend in somewhat unfortunate circumstances.

Moving away again from this specific instance and referring to general street conduct....whilst lazy, thoughtless contributions - regardless of length - are unacceptable, sometimes you don't have the clout to say what's on your mind so you make do with expressing your feelings as best you can. I see no reason for that to be suppressed under the guise of being too short. Infact, before I made my way in the world I could have sworn there was a knack to saying something without actually saying it if you felt you lacked the status. I can't really remember now, I can afford to be far more blunt these days.

I couldn't agree more with you there Hoopi.

Speaking is an art. Some are better than others and all voices should be encouraged to develop. In terms of volume, less is often more and the simplest things can pack the most profound punch. Quantity means nothing compared to content.

Tyrion hands his friend CrazyNine a book about Taoism and smiles warmly.

I do understand the point you are trying to make and it comes across quite clearly. I'm still wondering if a mere facial expression is not stretching that concept a bit too far, though.

I've always thought that someone who can have a point understood by another, in as few words as possible or even with the simpliest action, truly has developed a higher way of speaking. It is far easier to say more than less in developing a point.

I, myself, attempt to develop this skill but as you can see, I still need to chatter a bit in order to speak my mind.

Robert hands Godfather CrazyNine a book on Zen and smiles

After all, there are only three other people who can oppose what you say and i'd wage none of them will.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to suggest Godfather CrazyNine do here, outlaw the use of facial expressions? Whatever the intention, to suggest that I or any other Godfather won't have their own opinions on a subject, just plain wrong.

What say thee? Time to teach some sprogs that a facial expression says absolutely jack shit?

Deimne makes a sadface.

Well, it seems I will be able to expand my library by the time this conversation is over and that makes me quite happy. Although still, I believe that we are stretching the concept too far.

Although now I'm more confused than ever. It seems the Gods have also given their opinion on the matter. People with good memory will remember people having frowned right here yet there is no longer record of such actions. That can only mean one thing...

I guess there is not such an incentive to this debate for me anymore since the mightier beings have spoken with actions louder than words...

Crazy Nine pouts.

Crazy Nine smiles at Deimne's sadface trying to cheer him up.

Now this discussion doesn't make sense and it has turned into something worthwhile enough for two Godfathers and four Dons to have their say.

I really wish the Street Cleaners would excerise some caution before sweeping things away.

Frowns.

now would be a fine time to point out that just because a contribution is brief, or succinct to the point of being a single word/expression, doesn't mean it should considered as lazy or unacceptable as a rule.

Well said and I couldn't agree more, why say more when you can say less? As mafiosi we can dictate what people say and do here in the street, however we can't physically stop them (unless we shoot them) from saying what they want, that responsibility lies with the street cleaners. If they feel a one lined/one sentenced reply or nothing but a facial expression doesn't belong in the street then I'm sure with their special powers which have been given to them by the Gods they will remove it in some way.

I agree with Gwarble that something which has brought a number of high profile mobsters to the street to discuss should remain there, rather than disappear all of a sudden after several days on from the intial action a discussion is cropped up about it.

Gwarble smiles at Achilles. He had a hat on. It was a nice hat. People often commented on the nature of Gwarble's hat - it was that nice.

Frowns

I guess I'll jump in here and add my two cents, even though this horse has been beaten to death.  Hoopi's right when he mentions that brief contributions are just as valuable as most of the novels that are written around these parts.  If I cannot get straight to the point and I have to type out a long, drawn out reply, then I might as well give up my position of family head and become a public orator.

Now, on to Tilly's remark.  Yes, a made man of mine made a frown as her contribution to this topic.  Do I feel that it was out of place?  No, I don't.  Do I feel she should have added some more explanation behind it so that it would not be misconstrued as her getting involved with another family's business?  Sure.  She made this remark because Mystery was a coffee shop friend of hers and nothing to do with "This Thing."

Grins

Agreed with those making points about the disappearance, due to "street cleaners", of what was being discussed. Apart from the fact I can't see any reason why they'd be removed in the first place anyway, the fact they stemmed further debate was reason enough to leave them.

Frowns.

What the fuck....things must be quiet if so many highly respected people have come out and talked about a facial expression.

Cant be that important even clause hasn't ventured out!

Nice "test" as well CrazyNine