This is a recurring thing. I'm bringing it up again as to hopefully get a little more energy behind the topic so hopefully the understand is spread a little more, hopefully to those it affects. Yes, I'm full of hope, maybe it's the holidays.

First the question: Why do people get so butt hurt about in game stuff that their butts hurt outside the game? Why lord, whyyyyyy?!

The answer: Lack of understanding/knowledge as to the difference between in character game stuff and out of character user stuff.

I feel for the people who get really caught up in the game events that it affects them as the user. Every time I see a response in the forums, in any one of them, be it the streets or the OOC/outside areas.

I feel for them because in my opinion their approach to the game is really off kilter, and they carry the in game stuff through each and every character which results in the salty trolls we see about the joint.

Now, I love trolls. That new movie is pretty damn cool. That song especially. So it's not a jab at theses who get caught up.

Instead, I ask if the current families that house various Mafioso could do more to clarify what is In Character, and what isn't?

I understand not every family pushes the written form of role play, but surely there should be more emphasis and effort given to at least teach members what In Character and Out Of Character means, even without the push for street and BD activity.

I guess my concern that follows is, do even the current crop of leaders overall have a definite grasp of playing the game as the character, and letting the user not take on the events that transpire in game?

I know some do, yet I get a sense some do not. Which is fine, we're all here to learn and grow. But for less salty trolls to troll about, or at least litter the forums with OOCitis, should not ALL families have a thread in the HQ clearly defining the difference between the two, or at least direct their members to current forum threads so they don't begin to despise other users for in game actions?

So, I call on the current leaders to see what their take on this is, and of course, the userbase as a whole. It sucks balls when things on a game level are taken into real life. I've been there. I've done that. It makes the game less enjoyable for the salty user and others that have to deal with the real life negativity, rather than the light in character creativity.

What's your take on this, crew leaders and upper structures , and others who have an opinion?

I feel you, Axel. I've allowed "Warrior" to be involved in the decisions that Slash makes. Really I shouldn't. But it happens. In general when I make a character I allow myself to consider what that persons goals are, what their main attributes would be and their approach to this thing of ours. I've been around long enough to have a good idea what the difference between the two are. I dont think ive ever seen in broken down into fine lines within the HQ of any leaders tbh.

The reason for this being that not everyone cares, quite honestly. Some people don't even RP at all in this game. Which is fine really, everyone has their own approach to it all.

I tend to simply look out for the ones that do enjoy the RP side, or have an interest at least. Conn would be someone like that which comes to mind. He was unknown to me when he joined us and he continued to impress with his desire to do more and quickly he learned a lot about the RP side thanks to assistance from the wonderful @CamillaBalistreri.

So you see a thread in the HQ, whilst useful, to me isn't essential. A leader will always look out for and guide those that seek it. I believe the Streets does have a guide of sorts already on how to RP tbh. The fact its there and people still make mistakes with their comments comes down to not a lack of understanding, but more a lack of caring. Imo of course. There are times when its a simple slip of the tongue, but more often than not it's less the case of accident and more the case of lazyness.

However, what I would say is now more than ever we have active Street Sweepers that nullify these cases fairly quickly. I'm sure plenty of you have noticed moderated or removed posts in the recent times thanks to these guys. - I know thats not your main point here Axel, but I'd still like to point out that OOC cases in the IC Forums aren't really all that big of an issue to me at this point - more your point about the fact that peoples comments and agendas are driven by the user themselves and not the character, which doesn't always transpire as being OOC as they maintain a style that could pass as the character, but its clear their comments are driven by incidents from the past and ergo from a former character and not the current one which does indeed lead to the fact the comments are from the User, not the character. 

Appreciate your response good sir.

I completely agree with everything you have responded with, so I won't touch on it, as there's nothing for me to query or question.

What I will do is clarify what I guess I was trying to put across. I can be a little unclear at times, yet my mind knows what's up.

It's not about what's posted being the 'issue' (if you Wold vent call it that, but its more a discussion) in my opinion, because I also can blend myself with Axel at times, especially when I'm eager to Post.

What it's more about is the clear understanding that what happens in the game, shouldn't' be taken personally by the user, and the reason behind this thread was to do with people taking more so deaths to heart, than street level posts etc., but that can be applied too.

People tend to take the death of their character so personally it then affects them going forward, as they mustn't have understood the character dies with the character's death.

There's the sticky posts on staying in character in the forums, yet it's more so about how to approach the game in general rather than how to approach posting in the forums, yet they do go hand in hand, and that perspective on posting can be taken to playing the game without posting too.

So it's less about posting, and more about simply understanding the role of the character and the game, and the role of the user and the game.

If there weren't so many people continuously taking things over from character to character from a user perspective, I feel then sure, it should be a case by case thing. Yet given so many do this, I think users should be schooled on this just as much as they are schooled on family rules and how to use a gun.

In my opinion, knowing the difference between in character and out of character, is the most fundamental thing to learn here for a healthy environment, yet its not being taught. Why shouldn't this be taught to every user in every family? Especially given the game's a role playing game.

Btw I'm not saying this is a game breaking thing either, as it's been this way since I started here and in all role playing games there is a point new users to role playing need to learn in character and out of character. I just feel as most if not all the learning and teaching here is done in the family environment, this would be a nice addition for leaders to take a responsibility on as well as the other stuff they teach users. :)

Pfftt Waist of my breath. Seats by same old same old says it all and you got to ask?

Seems like it was a waist of both of our breaths :) Or fingers, in my case.

What I am also amused by is the emphasis on role playing for new people. That is the least of the problem.

Nah not only new people, and I completely agree.

I guess my concern that follows is, do even the current crop of leaders overall have a definite grasp of playing the game as the character, and letting the user not take on the events that transpire in game?

:)

The topic is always touch and go, because some don't bother with this side of the game that much. Not just in a writing sense, but in an 'understanding' sense. A lot of what happens on here seems to get taken on by the user, and not discarded with the characters when they 'change clothing'.

If it were only newbies doing it, it wouldn't be a problem. But I believe it stems from most families not bothering to even touch on the very very very basics of role play in their running of a family. Everything else is catered for in the HQ, yet not much in this area, if at all, and it really makes me do the Jacky Chan WTH meme given it's a role playing game, or suppose to be.

I appreciate your commenting and posting here. I just hope it's to do with the topic, and not an OOC stab at the leaders, cause ironically this is what the whole thread is about trying to not do more of lol!

Cheers though :)

Allowing ranks to do their job.

My apology. I should of been more specific. Each rank has a role. It falls under role playing. Yet I have yet to find every role being utilized to the fullest. For example consigslieres are not consulted when times of negotiations are in order.  LH rarely takes on their description. It is also treated as a non important role. Unless of course they fall under the elite sector.

You see Zootopia, I really don't think you 'get' the thread based on your continuous 'elite' mentions. What you keep doing is what this thread is aiming to avoid. I'd love to chat about the topic at hand, which is pretty specific if you re-read my posts.

First the question: Why do people get so butt hurt about in game stuff that their butts hurt outside the game? Why lord, whyyyyyy?!

The answer: Lack of understanding/knowledge as to the difference between in character game stuff and out of character user stuff.

That's very clear in the first post, at the very beginning. Can you see the irony here, at all?

I read very well. I took it upon myself to re-direct you to the  problems. You see you define people as being butt hurt. But as you mentioned why would people be butt hurt as you put it on an online game> I personally cannot relate. Perhaps frustrated is a better term.

Well, I think it's because of this here...

The answer: Lack of understanding/knowledge as to the difference between in character game stuff and out of character user stuff.

Let me explain further.

You the user, creates a character. You aren't the user when you log in and role play that character. Whether you write in the streets from that characters perspective or experience, or just click about and enjoy the amazing game mechanics on offer, it should always be as that character and that character alone, never the user.

It's like an actor. They assume the role of a character in say, a stage play or movie. As they are acting their character, they aren't the actor anymore. They play that role as whatever character they have chosen to take on. When they finish acting, they then leave that character behind and re-assume the role of themselves, the actor, in real life and away from the stage or screen. They wouldn't then keep holding onto the events they role played as their character when they left the stage, or finished their session behind the camera for the movie.

This is the same thing here, or should be the same thing here. User's should simply discard their characters and the events that came about when logged in and role playing that character when the character dies or they are logged out.

In this way, you can see the problem that arises is that the user never really took on the role of the character when they created it in the first place. They logged in as the user, and that made for a very awkward after-death event where they then took all that happened in game, out of game, and beyond that single character.

It would the same if Al Pacino continued to believe he got shot and killed by people invading his mansion when he played the role of Tony Montanna in Scarface, immediately after he finished filming and in all the years following when he continued to live his life as Al Pacino.

Worse still, and this is the main problem here, it would be as if he continued to believe he was 'Scarface' in all the movies he acted in after that. Imagine him in 'Any given Sunday' as Tony Montana, looking for his pile of coke and 'little friend' instead of playing the role of the football coach for a NFL team.

I hope that makes sense.

So the problem I find here and the reason for the thread is the lack of genuine, solid, real effort in families to educate users on how to 'really' role play a role playing game from the perspective of the character and the differences between In Character and Out of Character. And I believe it's due to a collective misunderstanding from the top level or just a severe lack of care to educate members from this top level.

As most if not all game education comes via the way of families, this should also be the case. Then we wouldn't have you, Zootopia, so caught up in stuff in game that you've now carried over into multiple characters because you haven't been taught that what happens in character, stays in character, and dies with that character.

If you did, you as Zootopia wouldn't care so much for all this elite stuff. Because that's you the user, continuing to drag it through each of your characters and it makes for a really frustrating experience for some. I find it funny, and enjoy trolling you with role play and others like you, but it's a serious thing that needs to be addressed from a leadership in game level, because if you 'got it', you'd probably enjoy this game and not be so 'butt hurt' or frustrated.

You'd simply see that what happened to your lineage, really doesn't matter in a in character in game sense. Because it's all for the love of the game, and a fundamental part of the game. And you the user could actually enjoy the process of dyeing and re-creating a new character, and role playing that new character to your little hearts content.

TL;DR: Read the fuckn thing :)

Also if you'd like to know more about how to let things stay in game, by the process of creating a character with the purpose of role playing that character, just hit me up.

It's simple, but it'll take this topic off topic into character creation and this is more directed to leadership taking on the responsibility to educate users.

Which is actually quite funny, since only one has come out to post here and address my concerns, and he maybe did it out of being my direct leader and out of pity for the post getting no love lol :) Such a good chap he is :)

I understand your stance. I agree for the most part.  However, it's not that I do not have the ability to role play anyone of my characters Been there and done it quite well. One reaches a certain point where not only is one witnessing the lack of teachings from upper structure you mentioned, upper structure have proven many times to be extremely condescending. Is that your idea of fun?

This here character is my idea of fun. Options are rapidly reaching the point of null and void. I assure you, I get applauded for coming to these streets and my pocket has grown. I send back the tips because where I am going is of no use to me.  There is no crime on how I wish to live my character. I am not getting personal unlike a few of the jackasses have done. I am merely a voice with a twist of truth too.

You are a voice - A paranoid voice - Great job! Want a medal Zootopia? Your pockets haven't grown, the only thing that has grown is your annoying little troll voice. Quit complaining about the game; and play the game. Oh wait, it's rigged isn't it? I better send Squishy an email and notify him that his game is rigged.. Maybe he can un-rig it for us all? LMAO!

Not true, actually. You're merely an OOC voice in an IC forum (being the streets). If you voiced your elitism concerns in this OOC section then you'd be correct. But sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not properly role playing a character. You're being the user behind the screen and littering streets threads with exactly the same OOC content character after character, even though they have died, time and time again.

If you can say the same thing in an OOC forum as well as an IC forum, that there shows you're simply the user all over the shop.

So, ell me who Zootopia is exactly.

Real full name?

Likes, dislikes?

Childhood?

History?

Personality?

These are just a touch of what you should already know about your character, if you are in fact role playing one.

But more importantly, how does each and every character you create have the exact same thing to say time and time again?

How would Zootopia even know anything of elitism, at all? Or whatever it is that the character that died, and that you haven't yet let go of, thought that was.

And how exactly would each 'child' (if that's what you're role playing) to follow be so hell bent on it, even though you'd assume by now they'd not have anything to say on the matter, given generational changes and diluting of understanding and knowledge.

It's not realistic for Zootopia, as an extended character of whichever one however far back your role playing from, to hold such an in character grudge.

I doubt the very next of kin would have kept forcing this frame of mind on their children, and then their children doing the same, and so on.

I doubt by this point Zootopia even gives a damn in an in character sense that her great great great grand mother or father died by someone's bullet in whatever way that came about.

So you see, you're issue is an OOC user issue right now. You are holding onto something from a 'you the user' point of view and not role playing an actual character.

As a user you can be as unhappy in an OOC sense as you want to be, just keep it off the in character 100% role play forums. Because no matter what you think, I can assure you, you're not role playing a character.

And again, this is about leadership and their views on having more responsibility toward teaching members this. And again, your misunderstanding of it is a reflection of this fact, as you haven't been schooled properly on the topic here yet, no matter how much you want to argue it, because its just simply not true that you are role playing a character properly.

And lastly, and definitely the last time I will address this or say this, hit me up if you'd like go know how to role play a character more effectively. You need to be willing and open to learn and seek that guidance, otherwise I won't be able to help you, and no-one will.

This Forum Is For Non RP Talk About The Game (AKA OOC)

At any rate the numbers or l should I say lack of, supports my OOC thoughts. And my IC thoughts.

Those thoughts aren't separate though, which makes them being strictly OOC user thoughts that you carry over into a RP environment.

Look, I appreciate your willingness to battle this to the end, but we'll just have to simply agree to disagree :)

I hope you can get past whatever it is you're holding onto and enjoy the game for what it is. I also thank you for the opportunity to write more clearly about the topic at hand. ;)

WoonDa was disappointed nobody cared or called about his mental sober ki all this time. But wait? WoonDa? That fuckin' bastard name sounds crazy in anything you read something written by... Is that IC RP, OOC RP, or some mind lucid clear mofo RP? or not RP talk at all? Can we talk RP in character and out of character at the same time? Fuck I am lost now...