We will be holding a roundtable discussion in #gametalk at 16:30 about the possibility of the RHM auto setting up a crew in the event of the CL dying.

I encourage all active members who wish to participate in the discussion on if this feature is ideal (good, bad, ugly, whatever) for the game, to be in #gametalk on IRC at 16:30

Thank you!

[16:33] (@IzzyCreamcheese) ok, i guess we will start up now
[16:33] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Let me talk for a minute, then ill open it up for you guys
[16:34] * Kizzy (~kizzinate@4C8BE67E.48319B8D.CC2AFDB2.IP) has joined #gametalk
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) THe idea is... that when a crewleader dies, if the family should automatically end up with teh RHM/LHM/Whoever
[16:34] (Kizzy) Ohai
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) theres a few pros/cons for this
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) first major con is... lets say you sign up for a CL
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) its your choice
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) he puts in a RHM you hate
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) you get sucked into his crew when the CL dies
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and now you are held hostage
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so we need to go about this in a way that wont end up with users being held hostage in families they didnt agree to
  be in
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and
[16:34] (@IzzyCreamcheese) also
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) to make sure we dont have dynasty families
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) that have the same CL/RHM switchign roles
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) for 3 years
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so our current thoughts were...
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (which is what i want comments on)
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) a CL can assign up to 2 people to create family in the event of his death
[16:35] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (keyword being its NOT the same family)
[16:36] (@IzzyCreamcheese) thats private info, and no one knows it
[16:36] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in the event the CL dies
[16:36] (Hermes) Would the RHM be able to see it?
[16:36] (@IzzyCreamcheese) no
[16:36] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in the event of the CLs death, if people have the cash to do it
[16:36] (@IzzyCreamcheese) an HQ is auto purchased
[16:36] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and invites are auto sent out to all members
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) anyone who doesnt accept the invite within 24 hours
[16:37] (Hermes) That solves the "hostage" problem
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) is auto sucked into the crew
[16:37] (Hermes) Oh
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (assuming rank works out)
[16:37] (Hermes) Nvm then :P
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) anyone who doenst meet rank
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) well
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) is fucked
[16:37] (Zeus) How does the recipient of this power know they have got the auth like thingy???
[16:37] * LilWayne (~pmccormic@Jaundies-60F56058.know.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #gametalk
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if the RHM is dead at the time of the cls death
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) then #2 is picked
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) same thing
[16:37] * Mikado (~MikadoIII@Jaundies-FB438625.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #gametalk
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Zeus they login to having a crew :)
[16:37] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and i would assume the CL has preinformed them of the plan-b
[16:37] (Mikado) did I miss much?
[16:37] * Eileithyia is now known as Guest27926
[16:37] * FrankBlazini is now known as Guest13886
[16:37] * Grubby is now known as Guest59961
[16:38] (Zeus) oooooh ok
[16:38] (@IzzyCreamcheese) then we shoot all germans
[16:38] (Mikado) :o(
[16:38] (@IzzyCreamcheese) oh hey Mikado
[16:38] (Mikado) lol
[16:38] (Mikado) hi!
[16:38] (Hermes) Lolol
[16:38] * Hermes is now known as Telkin
[16:38] * Guest13886 is now known as Warmonger
[16:38] (bighead) Can you not have a reverse of the auto invite
[16:38] (@IzzyCreamcheese) how so?
[16:38] * Sero (~IceChat7@Jaundies-D7C279C1.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #gametalk
[16:38] (Zeus) Well, I think this is awesome except for the auto suck
[16:38] (bighead) so rather than automatically invite they automatically join the crew but can opt out for nothing within 24 hours
[16:39] * Guest27926 is now known as Cassiopeia
[16:39] (@IzzyCreamcheese) eh then i run the worry of people getting in a crew they dont like
[16:39] (@IzzyCreamcheese) more so than a 24 hour auto in
[16:39] (bighead) thus saving unsponsored deaths and also bring the realism of how mafia wars would work
[16:39] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i worry about anyone opting out
[16:39] (@IzzyCreamcheese) would be considered a traitor
[16:39] * bruiser_jr (~bruiser_j@Jaundies-572736C5.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #gametalk
[16:39] (Telkin) Aye
[16:39] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and kind of ... shot
[16:39] (@IzzyCreamcheese) :)
[16:39] (bighead) but if they are in anyway active they will log in soon enough to leave
[16:39] * Guest59961 is now known as Grubby
[16:39] (Telkin) More likely to be shot for opting out
[16:39] (Telkin) Than not accepting
[16:39] (Telkin) As they'd not have a list of the members who didn't accept
[16:40] (Telkin) Where if they accepted
[16:40] (Mikado) one question: how will this work for GF crews?
[16:40] (Telkin) and opted out
[16:40] (Telkin) they'd be on the list
[16:40] (Mikado) if Deimne died, would I get Godfather promo and the 10 man crew
[16:40] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Mikado i would imagine the same
[16:40] (Mikado) or just...a 10 man crew
[16:40] (Mikado) :P
[16:40] (bighead) but on the same score. When you join the CL you should follow what they want you to follow. They obviously wanted you to
  follow and if they were any good they wouldn't appoint a tard.
[16:40] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Mikado thats something we need to work out with the godfather code
[16:40] (Telkin) Assuming he picked you
[16:40] (Telkin) ;P
[16:40] (Mikado) oh he has to pick me?
[16:40] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tough call on the order of who should ge tit
[16:40] (Mikado) damnit
[16:40] (Mikado) plans ruined
[16:40] (Telkin) Lololol
[16:40] (@IzzyCreamcheese) most xp, most time with required XP, or picked by the gf ahead of time
[16:41] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but thats another convo
[16:41] (Johnny_Kraven) What about instead of opt outs and such, in the event of a CL death, theres a grace period where the HQ stays up for so
  long and the crew can vote the RH or LH into CL or would that be too hard to code in...
[16:41] * lovehand is now known as lovehandAP
[16:41] (Zeus) What if the person authed by the CL dies after the CL without authing succesor?
[16:42] (Telkin) The point is Johnny_Kraven, the CL picks 'em
[16:42] (Telkin) Doesn't matter what the crew thinks
[16:42] (Johnny_Kraven) I understood that
[16:42] (bighead) But the idea is a good one
[16:42] (Mikado) I just realized, this will have a massive impact on wars
[16:42] (Johnny_Kraven) Just saying, he didnt want anyone traped
[16:42] (Telkin) Then the family'd die, I'd imagine Zeus
[16:42] (Johnny_Kraven) this gives them a choice
[16:42] (bighead) the HQ is a 24 hour safe house where you choose whether to stay within the family and risk the new leader OR leave and go
  elsewhere by choice
[16:42] (Telkin) But it also makes the CL's decision null
[16:42] (Zeus) No, I mean could it transfer to the next guy????
[16:43] (bighead) I just don't like the idea of someone setting up and no members being online to join
[16:43] (bighead) considering this person will more than likely be in a war situation
[16:43] (Telkin) and die anyway
[16:43] (Telkin) true true
[16:44] (tita) lets say a leader dies in his sleep, and no info was mentioned to anyone, how could we differ btw the auto auth an a smart ass
  that sets up as rogue and tries to take advantage of the moment?
[16:44] (bighead) It'll be a duck shoot.
[16:44] (Telkin) Good point tita
[16:44] (Zeus) Got a point
[16:44] (Zeus) JINX
[16:44] (bighead) Did the old captain code display overallleader?
[16:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yeah
[16:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) I think?
[16:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i dont remember
[16:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) we had like 103983190 versions, none of which worked
[16:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) :)
[16:45] (Telkin) Lolz
[16:45] (bighead) My memory is extremely poor. But if you could code that in for a period
[16:45] (bighead) that would solve it?
[16:45] (Johnny_Kraven) I still believe a vote system would solve problems, it would require to RH/LH to keep good connections with his Crew
[16:45] (bighead) and would also cause splits
[16:46] (bighead) with people trying to get power votes
[16:46] (FFF) the vote system is unrealistic
[16:46] (Zeus) The mafia was not a democracy was it?
[16:46] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Zeus eh sort of was actually
[16:46] (Satanta) from a rp pov.... voting? in the mafia?
[16:46] (@IzzyCreamcheese) alot of decisions were made as a group
[16:46] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (from higher ups)
[16:46] (bighead) The leader decides who his most trusted men are
[16:46] (@IzzyCreamcheese) the little guys had no say
[16:46] (bighead) surely?
[16:46] (FFF) but not by the soldiers
[16:46] (Johnny_Kraven) Then why carea bout people getting trapped into a family?
[16:46] (Zeus) Yeah but alot mattered on Families from which they came  right?
[16:46] (bighead) I still think it should be RH or LH or no-one..
[16:46] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Johnny_Kraven because this is also a game
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and nothign is worse than beign forced into a position with a dick cl
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) where you have no options but get killed for leaving
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) or stay and be miserable
[16:47] (Telkin) Other than *being* the dick CL
[16:47] (Telkin) :P
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in a situation you didnt ask for
[16:47] (bighead) If you trust those two people enough then so be it. Stop tards absuing the position (hi clipper)
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if you joined the crew... then its your own choice
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but if you got passed along
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) eh
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i feel bad for the user
[16:47] (Telkin) stfu bighead :(
[16:47] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and want to avoid that
[16:47] (Telkin) No clippers aloud
[16:47] (Telkin) ever
[16:47] (Telkin) :|
[16:47] (Telkin) allowed*
[16:47] (Telkin) ).)
[16:47] (Satanta) I don't see any difference from this
[16:48] (Satanta) to the current gf setup
[16:48] (Satanta) where users are transferred
[16:48] (Johnny_Kraven) I just dont see a diff from voting, and getting to op out cause you dont like the new CL either way seems to have to
  split from reality in order to appease players
[16:48] (Telkin) And thus being "trapped" potentially?
[16:48] (@IzzyCreamcheese) lets explore the voting idea a bit
[16:48] (Telkin) I think once you hit "accept"
[16:48] (Telkin) You're in for life
[16:48] (@IzzyCreamcheese) mind explaining it from start to finish?
[16:48] (Telkin) No amtter what
[16:48] (Telkin) Even if the CL does switch
[16:48] (bighead) Indeed.
[16:48] (Telkin) Take in mind
[16:48] (Telkin) CL's stepping down
[16:48] (Telkin) handing it to the RH
[16:48] (FFF) the voting thing would be a hassle mid-war
[16:49] (Telkin) People are trapped then, too.
[16:49] (bighead) It will cause the users to actually think before getting an invite
[16:49] (tita) well whenever they join a family in a GF city, they are choosing to join that GF, since here its played as one big family
[16:49] (bighead) because they are tired to the hierachy until death
[16:49] (bighead) tied*
[16:49] (Telkin) Not always, tita.
[16:49] (Zeus) Yeah, the GF thing is good
[16:49] (Johnny_Kraven) Well think about it it mid-war, usually everyone is on
[16:49] (Cassiopeia) I don't see why people should be seen as traitors if they choose not to go with the rh crew. As they were loyal to the CL
  to the end. When they joined the crew, they joined it (for the most part) for the CL there should be no reprecussions if they choose not to
  join RH crew
[16:49] (Johnny_Kraven) you could have it end either with all votes in, or within an hr of a window
[16:49] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Cassiopeia thats my biggest fear actually
[16:49] (Zeus) Well, That is a persons personal belief Casiiopeia
[16:50] (tita) how is not always Telkin, tell one city that doesnt play as one big family
[16:50] (Telkin) LV
[16:50] (Telkin) That's all I know of.
[16:50] (Telkin) :|
[16:50] (Zeus) some ppl might consider it necessary for survival
[16:50] (Satanta) that wasn't by choice
[16:50] (Zeus) and others call it betrayal
[16:50] (Satanta) that was me forcing strangers into that position
[16:50] (tita) thats different:p
[16:50] (Satanta) for shits and giggles
[16:50] (Satanta) tbh
[16:50] (Satanta) :P
[16:50] (Telkin) Eh, Kerrrupt wasn't planning on acting as one big family
[16:50] (Telkin) Could've changed
[16:50] * Telkin shrugs
[16:51] (Telkin) fuckin clipper
[16:51] (Cassiopeia) I know it's a fear, but I'm saying it SHOULDN'T be considered an issue. Would be the same as if the crew had died and they
  started over in a different city really, you dont' shoot them for that do you?
[16:51] * Telkin grumbles
[16:51] (Telkin) anwayy
[16:51] (Satanta) that's because he didn't know you/RK/prinny
[16:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Cassiopeia some do
[16:51] (Telkin) Cassiopeia
[16:51] (Telkin) If the crew dies
[16:51] (Telkin) Then you're out
[16:51] (Telkin) You're a new character
[16:51] (Telkin) a new person
[16:51] (bighead) Cassiopeia, if I had my way, everyone would fight to death :)
[16:51] (Telkin) I hate that people base some accounts off what their others did
[16:51] (Telkin) Hermes is nothing like Mystery
[16:52] (Telkin) And shouldn't be treated anything the same
[16:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) hermes makes purses
[16:52] (Zeus) ok
[16:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and has a limp wrist
[16:52] (Telkin) :|
[16:52] (Zeus) and has no girl friend
[16:52] * Telkin wacks IzzyCreamcheese with his cadecues
[16:52] (Kizzy) Got a cute boyfriend, though.
[16:52] (Zeus) and no kid
[16:52] (Telkin) caduceus&
[16:52] (Telkin) *
[16:52] (Zeus) Yep
[16:52] (Telkin) Anywho, I still say that it shouldn't be left to vote.
[16:52] (Cassiopeia) well personally, bighead, I think it should be the same. BUT if they want to institute this system, then fairly, everyone
  should be given an out if they don't want to/don't like the rh they would have to join
[16:53] (Telkin) Who's a thug to decide who can lead
[16:53] (Telkin) Bleh
[16:53] (Johnny_Kraven) then make it made men up only
[16:53] (Telkin) That's too "fairy fair"
[16:53] (Telkin) It's the mafia
[16:53] (Telkin) deal or die
[16:53] (Telkin) TITS OR GTFO
[16:53] (Johnny_Kraven) then there shouldnt be opt outs
[16:53] (Cassiopeia) exactly Johnny
[16:53] (Telkin) I agree.
[16:53] (LilWayne) but if you vote how long does that go on? till everyone votes or a few hours?
[16:53] (Kizzy) The way I see it, when you join up with a crew, the RH is part of the package.
[16:53] (Zeus) Well.........
[16:53] (Zeus) No
[16:54] (Zeus) I think
[16:54] (Telkin) Knew I invited her for a reason.
[16:54] (tita) i dont join a family because of the rh
[16:54] (Zeus) Same
[16:54] (tita) specially since nowadays they change rh's as underwear
[16:54] (Telkin) No, but you listen to them all the same
[16:54] (bighead) IzzyCreamcheese, could you code a way for the leader taking over to be given 4 hours pro and member 30 minutes pro to decide
  where they go. That way everyone would go unsponsored and choose which city to join..
[16:54] (Johnny_Kraven) an hour or so, most of us are within contact of each other either in IRC or cell phones, word gets out when your CL
  dies, give em an hr window or so to do it
[16:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Kizzy but RHMs change all the time
[16:54] (Zeus) I joined a Family fr the leader
[16:54] (tita) thats doesn't have anything to do with it Telkin
[16:54] (Zeus) and the GF leading him
[16:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) umm i dont know if they should get auto pro, to be honest
[16:54] (Telkin) Nah
[16:54] (Zeus) not the RH under him
[16:54] (Telkin) It'd make wars go on way longer than needed
[16:54] (Kizzy) Well, maybe this would encourage a steady RH.
[16:54] (tita) a rh leaders according to the leaders style, however when the rh becomes the leaders, things change
[16:55] (bighead) It's the only fair way I can see the member choosing and the leader having some form of protection
[16:55] (tita) it would be a different family
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) one thing we coudl tie into rhm
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) is how long they have been rhm
[16:55] (Cassiopeia) my vote is...
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) crew only gets shifted if they are rhm for X days
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) or some shit
[16:55] (Cassiopeia) Everyone dies :)
[16:55] (bighead) No Izzy
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (if we didnt do the thing where the cl can pick any 2 people...)
[16:55] (bighead) beause smart people have a European and Americas Rh
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) aye
[16:55] (Zeus) Well, most RH's don't want leadership(Never been an Rh, just a guess). So, I think the Family should go to the GF or to the ppl
  the CL nominates
[16:55] (bighead) IMHO
[16:55] (bighead) :)
[16:55] (Johnny_Kraven) Ok so back on to izzys original idea, what happens if its war time and the two people he picked are dead first?
[16:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but down the road, we are going to code RHM bonus to reflect how long they are in the position
[16:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so that people arnt swapping RHMs to take shots
[16:56] (Telkin) Family dies then
[16:56] (tita) plus i dont know if this right should apply at all times
[16:56] (Telkin) During war it'd make things nuts
[16:56] (Telkin) But if it was a WB... it'd rock
[16:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) rhms get a healthy bonus, but... shouldnt really happen when they are switched out every hour on the hour
[16:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) heh
[16:56] (Telkin) Though people usually get set up right away after a CL WB's anyway
[16:56] (tita) for example a GF city, maybe the GF wouldnt want certain rh authed in his city..
[16:56] (tita) whos the leader under the GF to auth
[16:56] (Telkin) Then he takes them out of the position after the war
[16:57] (Telkin) I'm sure he cares more about hsi city winning
[16:57] (Telkin) than someone being a CL for a few hours
[16:57] * bruiser_jr (~bruiser_j@Jaundies-572736C5.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: I eat babies.)
[16:57] (tita) will the code pass over the GF authority?
[16:57] (@IzzyCreamcheese) understand this whole concept is not even needed codewise, the crews should have a plan-b ahead of time
[16:57] (Zeus) Well, he could control them better if they were in his Family
[16:57] (@IzzyCreamcheese) with their RHM pre-authed
[16:57] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but that doenst tend to happen :)
[16:57] (tita) i think that per say its a massive hint
[16:58] (tita) things aren't passed on for a reason
[16:58] (Satanta) (tita) for example a GF city, maybe the GF wouldnt want certain rh authed in his city..
[16:58] (Satanta) that should get played out
[16:58] (Satanta) in game
[16:58] (Satanta) for us to handle
[16:58] (Satanta) imho
[16:58] (Satanta) the issue isn't that there's no plan b tbh
[16:58] (tita) i dont think we can have a code that puts a auth in place without your aproval though
[16:58] (Satanta) it's the number of good players
[16:58] (Satanta) that get killed
[16:58] (Satanta) while protected
[16:58] (Satanta) by idiot hitters
[16:59] (Satanta) sorry, shooters... not a hitter at all
[16:59] (Satanta) that didn't check
[16:59] * Kizzy hits Telkin
[16:59] (Satanta) even though weren't part of the war
[16:59] (Telkin) What kikuchiyo
[16:59] (Telkin) Kizzy*
[16:59] (Zeus) Well,  In a war, would a GF be able to handle the effort if the Family of an Underboss under him who died if they are directly
  under him or if they are under the RH of the Under Boss who has a prob wth the GF?????
[16:59] (Kizzy) I just like hitting you
[16:59] * FFF (~FrankyFou@Jaundies-F0AC2C.se.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: )
[17:00] * Goliath (~legolas@Jaundies-8064C6F6.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #gametalk
[17:00] (Cassiopeia) What are the pro's?
[17:00] (Satanta) pro's of?
[17:00] (Zeus) Family continuity
[17:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) trying to save some innocents lives
[17:00] (Zeus) better coordination of war effort
[17:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) to be honest :)
[17:00] (tita) in my opinion families already live too long as it is
[17:00] (Goliath) I like the idea.
[17:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tita but thats by choice though
[17:01] (Goliath) It seems like the right thing
[17:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) through inaction, hoping someone else takes the risk... which results in no one taking the risks... families live
  forever
[17:01] * Patti (~Patti@7FE1B788.3C380844.99F5A456.IP) has joined #gametalk
[17:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) until they get to a point wher they are perceived as untouchable
[17:01] (Zeus) Yeah
[17:01] (Satanta) if we wanted 4 wars a week
[17:01] (Telkin) (@IzzyCreamcheese) through inaction, hoping someone else takes the risk... which results in no one taking the risks... families
  live forever
[17:01] (Satanta) we could have it
[17:01] (Telkin) Goes back to your convo about a reset
[17:01] (Satanta) nfp
[17:01] (Telkin) Users COULD do a reset
[17:01] (Telkin) Just...
[17:01] (Telkin) They'd rather sit back
[17:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Telkin the users dont want to die trying to kill off the tops of the game
[17:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so i they are unwilling to die
[17:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) why shoudl everyone :/
[17:01] (tita) yeah but now if a "lucky" death happens that family gets continued anyhow
[17:01] (Cassiopeia) I like saving innocents, but that happens mostly in wars anyway, if I am made or above, I am definitely not "innocent"
[17:01] (Satanta) freudian slip there izzy
[17:01] (Satanta) ;)
[17:02] (Cassiopeia) most of those under made that are left without a family are left
[17:02] (Satanta) (@IzzyCreamcheese) so i they are unwilling to die ( I/they
[17:02] (Satanta) :P
[17:02] (Cassiopeia) so I've experienced
[17:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if
[17:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) IF
[17:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) im not ready to shoot you yet
[17:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) at least another 2-3 days
[17:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but not yet
[17:02] (Satanta) i'll give you time
[17:02] (Satanta) nfp
[17:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) imma wait for capo :P
[17:02] (Satanta) i'll get you a few mia's to help
[17:02] (Satanta) ;)
[17:03] * Telkin is now known as Telkin|Away
[17:03] * Ralph (~christian@catatonic.pillpopper.of.jaundies) has joined #gametalk
[17:03] (Telkin|Away) Well
[17:03] (Telkin|Away) My vote's yes
[17:03] * Telkin|Away nods
[17:03] (Telkin|Away) Gotta run
[17:03] (Zeus) byez
[17:03] (Goliath) I vote yes also
[17:03] * Telkin|Away (~Telkin@Jaundies-C5CD6278.twcny.res.rr.com) has left #gametalk
[17:03] (Cassiopeia) I look at it from two different views... as a CL I would want to do whatever to save my crew... Me dying and them living is
  ideal for me
[17:03] (Zeus) Hope you run under a truck Telkin
[17:03] (Satanta) to start with, what is a single con of family continuiety?
[17:03] (Satanta) I've heard some concerns
[17:03] (Cassiopeia) but as a crew member
[17:03] (Satanta) but all that I think should be resolved ig
[17:03] (Satanta) by players
[17:03] (Satanta) not by the code
[17:03] * Flash-Fire (~peek@2AF80C99.FDF3315C.1406D775.IP) has joined #gametalk
[17:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Satanta unwanted dynasty
[17:04] (Cassiopeia) I would rather die with my family, fighting period
[17:04] (Goliath) Pfft Cass
[17:04] (Goliath) you die wether you fight or not
[17:04] (Satanta) again, why can't that be solved ig?
[17:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) like jeb bush will probably run for president
[17:04] (tita) yeah i think this can all be done by players, it has been so far
[17:04] (Satanta) by players?
[17:04] (Satanta) cl's/rh's choose to do that
[17:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but we, as people, can make that not happen
[17:04] (Satanta) it'll be a revolt
[17:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in the game, its a lot hard to make that happen :)
[17:04] (Cassiopeia) Toasty I know :( wars usually happen when I can't be around :(
[17:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) harder*
[17:05] (Ralph) the electoral college can :(
[17:05] (Goliath) I think it is a really good
[17:05] (Goliath) idea
[17:05] (Goliath) and I wouldnt mind it
[17:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Ralph i really dont like the elcectorial college btw
[17:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) it should be done by popular vote
[17:05] (Satanta) if a character, even one as strong as deimne, turns masses against them
[17:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i dont like how popular vote can go one way, but the other guy wins
[17:05] (Ralph) i know
[17:05] (Patti) I don't think any true patriotic American does, Izzy
[17:05] (Satanta) they will die
[17:05] (Ralph) :/
[17:05] (Satanta) easily
[17:05] (Ralph) mad at bush v gore?
[17:05] (Zeus) I still think the transfer to GF or ppl authed by CL should happen
[17:05] (Patti) that was some bullshit there.
[17:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) not mad because of who won
[17:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) mad because that its a system that allows the loser to win
[17:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) which doenst refelct the opinion of the masses
[17:06] (Patti) go fox news :P
[17:06] * t1k (~t1k@Jaundies-B5B58846.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #gametalk
[17:06] (Patti) gotta love em
[17:06] (Ralph) ralph nader '12
[17:06] (Ralph) \o/
[17:06] (Patti) LMAO
[17:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) anyway, with the people here now
[17:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) can we get a vote if a system should even be put into place
[17:06] (tita) i think that whenever a leader died on accident or something like that, and that family and rh had good impact and good
  comunications with the leaders, they were given the nod to take over the family
[17:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (regardless of how it works)
[17:07] (tita) others didn't because well, they sucked or something
[17:07] (Satanta) yes (if it's a good system)
[17:07] (@IzzyCreamcheese) we could just make it as simple as the HQ becomes property of the next person
[17:07] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and leave it at that
[17:07] (Patti) I think it's an interesting system, if implemented correctly
[17:07] (@IzzyCreamcheese) let all the work be done manually
[17:07] (Cassiopeia) no (nothing against you toasty, I'd totally do it for you!)
[17:08] (Goliath) lol :)
[17:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yes 1 no 1
[17:08] (Goliath) I vote yes, because it should happen
[17:08] (Patti) Yes
[17:08] (tita) no
[17:08] (Johnny_Kraven) yes
[17:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yes 3 no 2
[17:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yes 4 no 2
[17:08] (Goliath) Right Hand Man deserves the family, if the leader trusts them enough to be rhm
[17:08] (Johnny_Kraven) agreed
[17:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) trust that they wont fuck up the crew
[17:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) is not the same as deserving of running a family
[17:08] (Cassiopeia) that isn't what I'm saying when I say no though
[17:09] (@IzzyCreamcheese) which is where the real life game help versus RP issue coems into play
[17:09] (Cassiopeia) I would just rather fight to the death honestly
[17:09] (Goliath) I have to go, I leave with my vote at yes.
[17:09] (Goliath) Mail me and tell me the answer cass
[17:09] (@IzzyCreamcheese) kk
[17:09] * Goliath (~legolas@Jaundies-8064C6F6.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: I eat babies.)
[17:09] (Cassiopeia) ok babes
[17:09] (Zeus) No
[17:10] (Cassiopeia) keep up with the count there Izzy
[17:10] (Cassiopeia) :P
[17:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) theres enough no's to make me rethink it
[17:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) even though yes is the majority
[17:10] (Ralph) yes
[17:10] (Flash-Fire) yes
[17:10] * TheKing (~wmirc_use@Jaundies-32961288.tmodns.net) has joined #gametalk
[17:10] (Satanta) tbh, i'm a big fan of the idea
[17:11] (Satanta) and i'm tempted to say no
[17:11] * althalus (~quackersv@BBAA3467.3C9BEDE5.F6181D22.IP) has joined #gametalk
[17:11] (Satanta) as we're voting on something we might not agree on atm
[17:11] (Kizzy) yes
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if it was made that the rhm/whoever gets the empty hq
[17:11] (Satanta) there's a lot of ways this could be done horridly
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) woudl that change any nos to yes?
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) thats all they get
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) no members
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) nothing
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) just the building
[17:11] (Patti) well that depends
[17:11] (Satanta) tbh
[17:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (assuming hes mm+)
[17:11] (Patti) if they are ranked below a MM...

[17:11] (Patti) ok
[17:11] (Patti) :P
[17:11] (Satanta) the big gameplay boost of this
[17:12] (Satanta) is members staying sponsored
[17:12] (Satanta) when i run a takedown
[17:12] (Satanta) i clip the cl first
[17:12] (Satanta) the members are easy
[17:12] (Ralph) You could keep the members who were made+ and have the other ones given a choice
[17:12] (Ralph) or vice versa
[17:12] (TheKing) imforthideae
[17:12] (Satanta) if they retain a family boost
[17:12] (Satanta) changes the dynamic big time
[17:12] (Zeus) I like the will like idea
[17:13] (Zeus) but not the rh idea
[17:13] (Patti) I agree Sat....the point of this is to keep families together and sponsered yes?
[17:13] (Johnny_Kraven) i think if they are under made they are droped but everyone whos higher goes with the new CL, it seems like in the real
  mafia, if you were just a thug, you wouldnt really be missed by the new guys taking over
[17:13] (TheKing) makes wars harder, which is a good thing
[17:13] (Patti) and would it make it more difficult in a war if a RH was immediately implimented into power?
[17:13] (Satanta) yes
[17:13] (Patti) Stat wise I mean
[17:13] (Satanta) significantly so
[17:14] (tita) well the thing is, this is being based on the sense of family, but the truth is that it will be a total different family
[17:14] (Satanta) they lose a decent family boost when the cl dies
[17:14] (Cassiopeia) realistically though how often would this even be used? most often cl's rh's and lh's go boom boom boom
[17:14] (Satanta) from a rp pov
[17:14] (Patti) So implementing a new leader will make it harder for you to wipe a city out in 2 minutes?
[17:14] (TheKing) aye but not always
[17:14] (Satanta) this is exactly what happens tita
[17:14] (Ralph) would make people consider the ramifications of crew killing though
[17:15] (Satanta) yup, very much so patti
[17:15] (TheKing) and if your smart ur keep up on changes when u take over
[17:15] (Patti) Well then I like it
[17:15] (tita) how is it harder lol
[17:15] (TheKing) wars should take days not mins
[17:15] (Patti) And tbh tita, if you're the RHM of your family, and you take over, it should be obligated that you carry on those family
  traditions while implementing your own
[17:16] (Patti) Well from what I understand tita....
[17:16] (tita) that is all nice and pretty in teory but it wont happen Patti
[17:16] (Satanta) needing an extra 50 kills to make the shot?
[17:16] (Satanta) that's harder
[17:16] (Patti) when a CL is killed right off, it significantly weakens the stats of thier unsponsered family
[17:16] (Patti) if a RHM were to be IMMEDIATELY implemented as CL...that boost would come back
[17:16] (Patti) correct?
[17:16] (tita) ill give you the same example i gave izzy
[17:16] (TheKing) yep
[17:16] (Cassiopeia) why wouldn't the rhm be killed though?
[17:16] (TheKing) pro?
[17:16] (Satanta) because shots get missed Cassiopeia
[17:17] (Patti) I guess that depends on how quickly the change happens
[17:17] (tita) get tiggy and her rhm flyingpig, tiggy dies, you think that flyingpig will lead anywhere close to tiggy's style?
[17:17] (Patti) if it is immediate, his stats should go up being a CL, versus being a RH
[17:17] (Satanta) nope
[17:17] (tita) people join a leader based on their type of leadership
[17:17] (Zeus) Yeah
[17:17] (Cassiopeia) but war is war is war it is carried out until the city is taken out, why would you let the rh live and take over the crew?
[17:17] (Patti) Oh I agree that's how it WOULD happen tita
[17:17] (tita) if i want tiggy, i dont want to end up with flying, simple as
[17:17] (Zeus) Nope
[17:17] (tita) because flyingpig is oposite of my choice
[17:17] (Satanta) then you weigh up the risks
[17:18] (Satanta) make your call
[17:18] (Zeus) I would like the Gf take over or the person authed by the CL take over
[17:18] (Satanta) and if you end up in that position
[17:18] (Satanta) you roleplay it out
[17:18] (Satanta) I had 50 members
[17:18] (Satanta) who signed up to be with me
[17:18] (TheKing) tita get the option to leaveu
[17:18] (Patti) I guess it would take more consideration on whose family you're joining
[17:18] (Satanta) not clause
[17:18] (Satanta) I got GF
[17:18] (Satanta) 40 of 'em went to clause
[17:18] (Satanta) how is this any different?
[17:18] (t1k) Your gang earned a total of $139,380 split 2 ways
[17:18] (Satanta) yet nobody ever condems the gf route
[17:18] (t1k) opps wrong window soz
[17:18] (tita) Patti that doesnt make any sense, you join the leader.
[17:19] (Zeus) and the GF
[17:19] (althalus) could it not be set up as a temporary thing after the leader dies?
[17:19] (Zeus) not the Rh
[17:19] (althalus) say a 24hr hq
[17:19] (Patti) but by definition, aren't your RHM & LHM your leaders as well?
[17:19] (tita) if i went to join a family right now, i need to disconsider the rhm, because 90% of the families change their rhm more often then
  a girl changes her panties
[17:19] (Patti) I'm just saying, you don't have to like them.  I understand where you're coming from.  
[17:19] (tita) so how is one suppose to base choice on rhm
[17:19] (althalus) that could then be decided if it was going to be permanent
[17:19] (Cassiopeia) Because Sat you didn't die in a war, you moved up in the world.
[17:20] (Patti) I suppose that would depend on how old the family you're joining is.
[17:20] (Cassiopeia) I'm not a good arguer, so I'm just going to stick with no
[17:20] (Patti) if you're joining them at start up, it would not be feasible
[17:20] * Satanta (~me@Jaundies-66817B60.threembb.ie) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[17:20] (TheKing) the point of this imo is realism, fsmlies dont die with a single lesder. there rhm takes over
[17:20] * Satanta (~me@Jaundies-66817B60.threembb.ie) has joined #gametalk
[17:21] (Zeus) WHat if the RHM is a lazy asshole like me who does not want leadership but just wants to kill, kill kill?
[17:21] (TheKing) then i leave?
[17:21] (Patti) Then why are you RHM?
[17:21] (Johnny_Kraven) I kinda liked the temp status idea, what if its the RHM takes over for 24 hrs, during wich, members can opt out, and the
  RHM has to buy a new HQ to retain the family after teh 24 hr mark, or have to haf a GF approval or something
[17:21] (althalus) the RHM wouldn't have to stay as the CL
[17:21] (TheKing) or wack uif im the lhm
[17:21] (Zeus) Well, Patti, RHM
[17:22] (Zeus) are appointed for a variety of purposes
[17:22] (althalus) if the RHM doesn't want the position they could step down
[17:22] (althalus) once someone else has been found
[17:22] (Zeus) Then who takes over????
[17:22] (althalus) the LHM
[17:22] (Patti) by definition, the RHM is as much as a leader as his boss.
[17:22] (althalus) family consig
[17:22] (Johnny_Kraven) you could have the family dissipitate (Sp?) if an hq is not bought within 24 hrs
[17:22] (Patti) it is his job to run the family in the boss' absence
[17:22] (Patti) so that's crap, imo
[17:22] (althalus) whoever is chosen to do the job
[17:23] (althalus) I'm a family head at the minute
[17:23] (TheKing) set it so the rhm cgive it to someone ubder him. say for the first 24 hoursn
[17:23] (althalus) but i work for a godfather
[17:23] (tita) yeah but a rh leads according to the leaders wants, its different once he becomes the leader himself
[17:23] (Zeus) Yep
[17:23] (althalus) i'm happy this way cause i've a boss
[17:23] (tita) as a rh i did things that i wouldnt do as a leader
[17:23] (Patti) and I agree with that tita.
[17:23] (Patti) which is why I like the 24 hour opt out idea
[17:23] (Flash-Fire) I agree with that
[17:24] (althalus) it would make sense
[17:24] (Flash-Fire) I was RHM for Vinnie but when I took over I lead thing differently
[17:24] (Patti) If you don't dig your new leader, bounce.  You've got 24 hours. *nods*
[17:24] (althalus) cause if the CL dies say to wackback
[17:24] (tita) the problem is, that works in teory assuming the person out there is a nice guy and will be ok with rejects
[17:24] (tita) but hell just a while ago here in MR
[17:24] (Zeus) Yeah
[17:24] * bighead (~chatzilla@Single.white.Brit.male.seeking.fuzzy.hampster.loving.man) Quit (Ping timeout)
[17:24] (althalus) and the RH doesn't have the time, or simply doesn't want to be a family head
[17:24] (tita) we saw leaders and GF's arguing over members
[17:24] (tita) just a couple months ago
[17:24] (Zeus) what if he sees it as betrayal
[17:24] (Zeus) and shoots the guy down?
[17:24] (tita) because they wanted them to come back to their hq even though they didnt want to
[17:24] (althalus) it would give the members a chance to not get killed while unsponsered in their sleep
[17:25] (TheKing) tbh i yhink u live odie witur famhr
[17:25] (Patti) I suppose that's something that would have to be handled IG through RP, tita
[17:25] (tita) so as soon as you get one of those dicks in that position, you can forgot the opt out
[17:25] (TheKing) if want oudie n start overtu
[17:25] (Flash-Fire) tbh anyone made man+ shouldn't go anywhere else
[17:25] (Patti) that is all personal matters, better handled IG *shrugs*
[17:25] (@IzzyCreamcheese) their mademan status is technically with the city
[17:25] (@IzzyCreamcheese) not that crew
[17:25] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but that opens up a whole other can of worms :)
[17:25] (tita) i just think the whole thing can be handled in game
[17:25] (Flash-Fire) yeah but what tita is saying is due to them leaving the city
[17:26] (tita) i dont think we need a code to pass a family to a rhm
[17:26] (althalus) i'd suggest this would only be implimented with cities that have godfather families
[17:26] (tita) if a rhm was good enough
[17:26] (tita) he will get the family anyhow
[17:26] (tita) if he is worthy of auth
[17:26] (tita) he will get auth
[17:26] (Zeus) The CL should write down who will get auth
[17:26] (TheKing) this is more for continualuty than auth
[17:27] (tita) the continuality can be played by the users too
[17:27] (Satanta) and it is
[17:27] (Satanta) the whole reason for this suggestion
[17:27] (Satanta) is to stop good players
[17:27] (Satanta) losing work
[17:27] (Patti) but then it goes back to being able to destroy a whole city in 2 minutes
[17:27] (Satanta) due to the idiots
[17:27] (Satanta) that shoot when they shouldn't
[17:27] (TheKing) yeabut iucl gets wack u havto warauth n inviteerfh
[17:27] (Patti) I really like the idea of the stats changes if a CL dies and a RH is immediately made boss
[17:28] (Patti) wtf King...
[17:28] (Patti) That hurt my IQ
[17:28] (TheKing) phone
[17:28] (tita) im sorry, but i dont think a whole city will be destroyed if there is a enforced rule in place
[17:28] (Flash-Fire) that will still happen Patti as they will shoot the RHM before the CL shot
[17:28] (tita) sure one or two unsponsored will die due to idiots
[17:28] (tita) but if you have 50 people dying due to idiots
[17:28] (tita) then leaders need to look at themselves cause something aint right
[17:29] (Cassiopeia) you need to work on gun control then
[17:30] (Satanta) it depends flash
[17:30] (Satanta) the query goes as far as does it just pass to rh
[17:30] (TheKing) the point of war is to end a fsm, not bring them inyo ur fam
[17:30] (Satanta) or does it eventually go to highest ranker
[17:30] (tita) if this idea is being thought to try and save unsponsoreds, then i disagree even more with it
[17:31] (Satanta) it's not
[17:31] (Satanta) it's to acknowledge the rp of family
[17:31] (Satanta) if a cl dies
[17:31] (althalus) tbh sat it should only go to either RH or LH initially
[17:31] (Satanta) the members don't scatter
[17:31] (Satanta) they look to the next highest member
[17:31] (Satanta) and go 'wtf now boss?'
[17:31] (Satanta) (or should)
[17:31] (TheKing) ehich should be the rjm
[17:32] (Patti) I'm for this because since I've been back...which has been approximately 3 months now....I have been in 3 different families, in
  3 different cities.
[17:32] (Flash-Fire) I think it should be RHM then someone the CL can set in case of RH dieing
[17:32] (Satanta) it should go to rh, if not eligible... possibly to lh.... if not elgible.. possibly to next highest
[17:32] (Satanta) lots of ways it 'could' work
[17:32] (Flash-Fire) but that person the CL can set has to be capo+
[17:33] (Satanta) (bout time you joined ny so patti ;P)
[17:34] (Patti) ;)
[17:34] (tita) what i think is this, currently in game is very easy to continue a family if your boss dies in an accident
[17:34] (tita) all it takes is a bit of comunication
[17:34] (TheKing) this eill make it syogito wacwhaboutthose not on tita?ttuo
[17:34] (Flash-Fire) eh you'd think that
[17:34] (tita) now if a code is put in place, much worse trying to solve the dickheads that will force people into the family
[17:34] (TheKing) ignore
[17:34] (Satanta) if i run a takedown, atm, it's too easy
[17:34] (Satanta) i shoot the cl
[17:35] (Satanta) they lose all auth
[17:35] (Satanta) so can't pro
[17:35] (Cassiopeia) omg King...
[17:35] (Satanta) all stat boosts
[17:35] (Satanta) so are much weaker
[17:35] (Satanta) none of which makes any rp sense
[17:35] (TheKing) what bout thode noontita?t
[17:35] (Flash-Fire) sorry for making it too easy for you sat ;)
[17:35] (Satanta) not 'me', for anyone
[17:36] (Satanta) just easier to play out the role in an example
[17:36] (TheKing) agrewith thate
[17:36] (Patti) So here's an off handed question...
[17:36] (Patti) let's say it is implemented and you take out a CL and a RH is implemented immediately
[17:36] (Patti) and you take out the new CL...and he has not yet designated a RH or LH...
[17:37] (Zeus) I asked tht
[17:37] (Patti) I probably wasn't here yet :P Too busy selling yellowpages ;)
[17:37] (Zeus) It means the Family DIES!!
[17:37] (tita) eh sat, you are basing this on easy shots. you forget the time where people actually missed, just because someone can 1 shot
  leaders now, and it seems easy, it doesnt mean it will always be like this. at some point it will go back to the sucky guns and being hard to
  take a family down
[17:37] (Johnny_Kraven) Ok what if we go about it a diff way, what if, when the CL dies, the RH doesnt take over right away, but the family
  stays up, and after a certain window the RH will move into the CL spot, this will help with the war time events, but also save on mishaps and
  such
[17:37] (Zeus) Nope
[17:37] (althalus) well tbh if you take out the upper structure of a family ie cl/rhm/lhm
[17:37] (Satanta) i'm not worried about it from a stats pov tbh
[17:38] (althalus) the family is essentially dead
[17:38] (Satanta) it's the rp side
[17:38] (tita) you cant code something to be harder based on the current easy take downs
[17:38] (Zeus) I do not like the rhm taking over!
[17:38] (Satanta) the idea of them losing all structure makes no sense
[17:38] (althalus) as all the heads are dead
[17:38] (Satanta) it wouldn't happen
[17:38] (Satanta) and doesn't happen
[17:38] (tita) well not everything can be included into the game
[17:38] (Satanta) these people have worked with each other and for each other for years
[17:38] (Satanta) no
[17:38] (Satanta) but this can
[17:38] (Zeus) Well, How about the CL passing the torch to somebody else at the last mo'????
[17:38] (tita) in reality i dont need a auth button to make a shot
[17:38] (Satanta) :P
[17:38] (Zeus) That happens?
[17:39] (althalus) yeah it does Sat, you run a takedown properly
[17:39] (Johnny_Kraven) But satanta, the RH would still be the head, as he is still the highest rank alive
[17:39] (Cassiopeia) Still no one has really answered my question.
[17:39] (althalus) then the general idea is to take out all threats
[17:39] (althalus) which is the high rankers
[17:39] (Johnny_Kraven) only thing is he wont get the CL bonus during wartime
[17:39] (Zeus) Nope
[17:39] (Johnny_Kraven) it helps with your takedowns
[17:39] (Zeus) Rank is not the same as position
[17:39] (tita) nothing stops the rh from setting up in mid of the war and inviting, there so he has the boost again
[17:39] (tita) its all doable
[17:39] (Cassiopeia) How often, in a war, (which is basically when this would be implemented) do rh's & lh's live?
[17:39] * TheKing (~wmirc_use@Jaundies-32961288.tmodns.net) Quit (Ping timeout)
[17:39] (althalus) true Zeus
[17:40] (Ralph) it's rare to have that much money lying around if the cl just died
[17:40] (Cassiopeia) so the rh is automatically put into the cl spot and takes over
[17:40] (althalus) but that being said, those left alive are usually the one's who aren't known
[17:40] (Cassiopeia) why wouldn't the rh be killed before the war is deemed "over"
[17:40] (tita) Ralph if its  a family... they will arrange the money quickly
[17:40] (tita) if its a family.
[17:40] (althalus) and aren't in a position of great importance
[17:41] (Zeus) I have to ask a rhetorical question to all the RH's here:
[17:41] (Zeus) Do all RHM's like leadership?
[17:41] (Ralph) the only thing i've seen is that you may or may not want the rh to be a crewleader for your personal resaons
[17:42] (Ralph) from an rp point of view.. there's no reason not to
[17:42] (Zeus) Nope, It is for the btterment of the Family as well
[17:42] (Ralph) the rh is expected to have some sort of leadership in the absence of the rewleader
[17:42] (Patti) It's their job!
[17:42] (Johnny_Kraven) Imo you should only be RH if youre interested in leadership
[17:42] (Patti) It's apart of becoming RHM
[17:42] (Patti) Agreed, Johnny
[17:42] (Zeus) Yeah but of a diff kind of leadership
[17:42] (Cassiopeia) alright I gotta go
[17:42] (althalus) tbh why would ya want a RH that's gonna run things differently to you
[17:43] (althalus) yes you want them to have their own thoughts about things
[17:43] (althalus) and to disagree with things your gonna do
[17:43] (althalus) but the family is yours and you want it run your way
[17:43] (althalus) when your there and when your not there
[17:43] (althalus) which is where the RH primarily comes in
[17:43] (Patti) And?  Here's my opinion...if you've worked hard for your crewleader, your RH knows it too.  If your CL dies, don't you think
  your RH is going to realize what you've already done for the family?  
[17:43] (Patti) This is where the RP aspect comes in.
[17:45] (Johnny_Kraven) I think idealy as CL you should be surrounding yourself with people who share your same ideals and it really shouldnt be
  an issue
[17:45] (Johnny_Kraven) though I realize it isnt always so
[17:45] (tita) not always johnny
[17:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) ok, buying out is free now btw
[17:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and no notification is sent
[17:45] (Satanta) rofl
[17:45] (Satanta) epic timing
[17:45] * Patti goes to buy out
[17:45] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if you dont realize it, your shit out of luck
[17:45] (Patti) :P
[17:45] (tita) having someone with oposite thoughts was proven to be a good thing for leader/rh
[17:46] (Satanta) hahahaha
[17:46] (Patti) JK JK
[17:46] (Satanta) just killed someone
[17:46] (Patti) Scream would have my ass
[17:46] (Satanta) who sent a mail saying "i'm buying out when i can afford it"
[17:46] (Satanta) major lolz
[17:46] (Patti) they told you first?
[17:46] (Patti) dorks
[17:46] (Satanta) poor guy
[17:46] (Satanta) :P
[17:46] * Cassiopeia (~MRuser@Jaundies-CB5C3DB9.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net) Quit (Quit: words)
[17:47] (Patti) ppffft blood in, blood out
[17:47] (Satanta) (Zeus) Do all RHM's like leadership? ( doesn't matter tbh
[17:47] (Satanta) that can all be rp'd out in game
[17:47] (Satanta) the way it should be
[17:47] (Zeus) k cool
[17:47] (Satanta) if i don't want a rhm being a cl in my city
[17:47] (Satanta) i step in
[17:47] (Satanta) and make a change
[17:47] (Zeus) Then we don't need code at all
[17:48] (Zeus) Just communication
[17:48] (althalus) Zeus that works when everyone is online
[17:48] (Satanta) just forums?
[17:48] (Satanta) great
[17:48] (althalus) but everyone isn't always online
[17:48] (Satanta) no more bg's or wacking
[17:48] (Zeus) Yeah guess so
[17:48] (Patti) kin i haz a bad gramaz?
[17:48] * kikuchiyo (~kikuchiyo@D3A5E927.816E0F1B.E01CBFFC.IP) Quit (Quit: I eat babies.)
[17:49] (@IzzyCreamcheese) aww it was -a- that died
[17:49] (althalus) i'm in the UK, many of my family are in the US
[17:49] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i mailed him yesterday complimenting him on freaking me out with his profile pic
[17:49] (Zeus) He closed the Manhattan Thingy and died
[17:49] (althalus) if i die in same daytime for me but early morning for them
[17:49] (tita) if they are not on, they can take over once they get on?
[17:49] (althalus) then this would mean they would be sponsered by the RH
[17:49] (Patti) JoeyMerlino's does that to me Izzy
[17:49] (Patti) always freaks me out
[17:50] (Zeus) Ok
[17:50] (Patti) and his name is so much like a Durden's, I end up clicking on it during NPC's alot
[17:50] (Zeus) lol
[17:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) ok another idea
[17:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) what about rhm/whoever gets the hq and the entire family
[17:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in an hq that can accept no new members
[17:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) has no access to hq management page
[17:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) literally, its just the stats stuff they keep
[17:51] (@IzzyCreamcheese) for 24 hours
[17:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) after 24 hours, he has to buy an hq
[17:52] (Patti) giving people a chance to get out if they want?
[17:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and that gives everyone a day to sort out their shit
[17:52] (Zeus) That's a good idea!
[17:52] (Patti) Sounds alot like what these guys were talking about earlier
[17:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yeah
[17:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) just need to figure out what exactly happens at 24 hours
[17:52] (@IzzyCreamcheese) heh
[17:52] (tita) what if that happens in mid of a war though?
[17:53] (Johnny_Kraven) dispersion just like now if no HQ is bought i say
[17:53] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tita then hes a one shot guy
[17:53] (@IzzyCreamcheese) his hq, since its not "real"
[17:53] (Satanta) tbh, from most of the discussion, i'm not sure it's needed izzy
[17:53] (@IzzyCreamcheese) wont pass on to anyone lese
[17:53] (@IzzyCreamcheese) *else
[17:53] (Satanta) i'm the one really fighting for it
[17:53] (Satanta) and even i'm not that pushed
[17:53] (Satanta) just makes more sense RP wise
[17:53] (@IzzyCreamcheese) its just a temporary solution until people figure out how to handle it
[17:53] (Satanta) but there are issues with it
[17:53] (tita) no i mean like, the management page, so they couldnt really auth shots, drop etc?
[17:53] (Satanta) just as there are atm
[17:54] (Satanta) neither are perfect
[17:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tita, they could retain their previous auths
[17:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) from the cl
[17:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) or allow new auths
[17:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i dont really care either way
[17:54] (@IzzyCreamcheese) up to you guys if this has any merit
[17:54] (althalus) could it be worked in that since it is a temp solution
[17:55] (althalus) that the rank of the RH wouldn't matter
[17:55] (althalus) since the HQ would only havea  self life for 24 hrs
[17:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) acutally, maybe they keep the hq
[17:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and no one leads it
[17:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) heh
[17:55] (althalus) shelf*
[17:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and its tehre for 24 hours
[17:55] * Grubby (~raymondgr@Jaundies-AD0F91B8.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: )
[17:55] (@IzzyCreamcheese) all it provides is the boost of being sponsored
[17:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) that gives whoever wants to set up for real the ability to buy their own hq
[17:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and invite members in
[17:56] (Johnny_Kraven) I like that idea personally everyone stays where they are, just close off the management page, then they have to buy the
  HQ to open it back up
[17:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if you buy the hq, you dont get members
[17:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) you buy a new hq
[17:56] (althalus) that would make sense Izzy
[17:56] (@IzzyCreamcheese) this way we dont have the whole "get sucked into a crew you dont want" situation
[17:57] (Johnny_Kraven) yeah thats a cool idea
[17:57] (althalus) cause from a RP standpoint if the Cl dies
[17:57] (althalus) the doesn't mean the building has been blown up or anything
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so, all in all, all that happens is that they keep their HQ boosts for 24 hours
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) or until they find a family
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) or die
[17:58] (Zeus) Yeah
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if the rhm wants to set up shop
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) he can
[17:58] (Johnny_Kraven) So just to clear it up, if they buy an HQ..does that pull them out of the dead one? or make everyone else crewless?
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if the crew favorite wants to set up shop, he can
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) you would have to drop out, buy an hq
[17:58] (@IzzyCreamcheese) then send invites to whoever
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) who woudl have to drop out
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and accept it
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) to be in the new one
[17:59] (Johnny_Kraven) So regardless the HQ is dead, just a 24 hr protection?
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yep
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i mean, the HQ forum still stays
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but thats ti
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) :)
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) *it
[17:59] (Zeus) Well, This is a better solution
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and 24 hours after the CLs death
[17:59] (althalus) you'd need to keep the ability to mass mail members
[17:59] (Patti) But as far as the "unsponsereds", we will still have that CL boost for 24 hours?
[17:59] (@IzzyCreamcheese) the game kills off the hq
[18:00] * LilWayne (~pmccormic@Jaundies-60F56058.know.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout)
[18:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Patti yeah
[18:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) this way, no one inherits a big gun because now they are a cl with a crew
[18:00] (Patti) I dig it
[18:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) no one gets in a crew they dont like
[18:00] (@IzzyCreamcheese) it buys some time to get yourself situated
[18:00] (Johnny_Kraven) Gives people some time to finish dieing out in a war, or recover during an accident, I like the idea
[18:01] (Patti) and it gives us a chance to do so.
[18:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) this way all the other stuff is handled RP wise
[18:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) by you guys
[18:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) however you feel
[18:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) with a 24 hour window to get shit straightned out
[18:01] (@IzzyCreamcheese) or kill them all
[18:01] (althalus) it opens the doors for a proper sit down
[18:02] (tita) they are still killable even in this hq though right
[18:02] (Satanta) hahaha
[18:02] (Satanta) hellz yeah
[18:02] (Patti) well i'd hope so
[18:02] (Patti) just not as unsponsered
[18:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tita yeah
[18:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but they are a harder shot than unsponsoerd
[18:02] (Johnny_Kraven) Would you do it so you could still view the members from the CLs bio? to make re-invite and such easier? Since they are
  still technically in the CLS HQ
[18:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i can make them half way between sponsored and unsponsored defense wise
[18:02] (@IzzyCreamcheese) if you guys can argue one way or the other
[18:03] (Patti) I love that idea
[18:03] (Patti) Best one yet
[18:03] (tita) nah i dont care about them keeping regular D
[18:03] (@IzzyCreamcheese) how much longer will this make wars?
[18:03] (@IzzyCreamcheese) just out of curiosity
[18:03] (Johnny_Kraven) half defense boost is a cool idea
[18:03] (@IzzyCreamcheese) it wont matter for your big hitters
[18:03] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but it makes the small hitters that clean up the unsponsoreds a little less effective
[18:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) make a difference or not?
[18:04] (althalus) there'd be no need to change the defense boost
[18:04] (tita) i dont think it makes a difference tbh
[18:04] (tita) because clean up, is clean up, is not war per say
[18:04] (Satanta) it will slow the clean up
[18:04] (Satanta) but aye
[18:04] (Satanta) not much impact on the war
[18:04] (@IzzyCreamcheese) kk
[18:04] (Satanta) well...
[18:04] (Flash-Fire) I doub't it'll slow clean up
[18:04] (althalus) if the war is still in full flow
[18:04] (Satanta) if it's two weak/small families
[18:05] (Satanta) harder to pop pro'ers
[18:05] (althalus) then it'll not be the small hitters taking most of the shots
[18:05] (Flash-Fire) not if you take out the new CL before they set who takes over
[18:05] (Satanta) so possibly a touch
[18:05] (Satanta) but not much
[18:05] (tita) unless the family is filled of high ranking and bg up consigs
[18:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) they keep their auth old auth status correct?
[18:05] (tita) what about a war status though?
[18:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so if i had perm auth, my cl dies, during that 24 horus in the empty hq building, i keep the auth
[18:05] (Satanta) aye
[18:05] (@IzzyCreamcheese) kk
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) just no new auths
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) since theres no leader persay
[18:06] (tita) or like a declaration of war
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in that building at least
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i hate calling it a building, but it makes the convo easier
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) heh
[18:06] (Satanta) aye
[18:06] (Satanta) heh
[18:06] (Satanta) (tita) what about a war status though?
[18:06] (Satanta) tbh
[18:06] (tita) what if this was only applied to accidents and such?
[18:06] (Satanta) goes hand in hand with this convo
[18:06] (tita) like wb or random shots
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) in the game as it is now, they cant get auths
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so its not like they lose anything
[18:06] (@IzzyCreamcheese) only gain protection until they can get into another fmaily
[18:07] (Satanta) aye
[18:07] (@IzzyCreamcheese) at such time they can get new auths
[18:07] (Satanta) and for the ones that had it
[18:07] (Satanta) they keep it
[18:07] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so are there any blatant things im missing with this idea?

[18:07] (Satanta) (tita) what about a war status though? ( that still under consideration?
[18:07] (Satanta) as it plays a role in this tbh
[18:07] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yeah, but best addressed down the road
[18:08] (Satanta) kk
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) we can always come back and alter this
[18:08] (tita) cause in a war, depending on family, that could make a difference depending on what rank the members are. but if a leader had a
  button that they could declare war, and the leader died, this protection hq wouldnt get in place
[18:08] (Satanta) might need to review this again
[18:08] (Satanta) aye
[18:08] (Satanta) perfect
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yeah the war status has a fuckton of code changes
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) this is actually a lot less
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) heh
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) because the war status has a lot of negatives written in
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so families are not on war mode 24/7
[18:08] (tita) well i meant more as an exception for this idea only
[18:08] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so lots of coding in lots of other places
[18:09] (tita) not a true war declaration per say
[18:09] (@IzzyCreamcheese) where as this hq thing is basically just one area of coding
[18:09] (Satanta) locking drugs enough to prevent 'constant war mode'?
[18:09] (Satanta) I'd have assumed so
[18:09] (@IzzyCreamcheese) all taxes are turned off
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and if needed could block the drug ability
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) heh
[18:10] (Satanta) tbh, not an impact for a lot of families
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) "Woah get the fuck out of here.. youre going to get me shot!"
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) says the dealer :)
[18:10] (Satanta) my taxes have been 5% from day one
[18:10] (Satanta) and others have 1%
[18:10] (Satanta) just handle it with tributes
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) kk
[18:10] (Satanta) so 'no taxes' isn't a big deal
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) then turn off drugs/taxes
[18:10] (Satanta) drugs is the big one
[18:10] (@IzzyCreamcheese) should make it so people basically stop making money
[18:10] (Satanta) aye
[18:10] (tita) can we go back to the defence thing though, thinking more deeply about it i could see an issue with it
[18:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) whats that?
[18:11] (Ralph) what's the point of war status?
[18:11] (tita) well looking at the families
[18:11] (@IzzyCreamcheese) Ralph auto auth for everyone temporarily
[18:11] (tita) owp dons members
[18:11] (tita) consig owp members
[18:11] (Ralph) oh
[18:11] (tita) in wars, its a massive difference if they keep a sponsored D
[18:11] (tita) like last war..
[18:11] (tita) i was told to shoot after it was unsponsored
[18:12] (tita) its a difference:p
[18:12] (@IzzyCreamcheese) we can keep all the other defense boosts
[18:12] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but remove the CL's rank
[18:12] (tita) when we think of gangsters, goombas is one thing, but looking at this families
[18:12] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so it should still provide some protection
[18:12] (@IzzyCreamcheese) just not the full amount
[18:13] (Ralph) or just add whatever defense the rank of the new cl provides?
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) there is no new cl
[18:13] (tita) and will this hq be viewed like any other
[18:13] (tita) in crews list?
[18:13] (Ralph) you're doing the temp thing?
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yeah
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) thats on the table now
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tita it will be the cl's profile
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) everythign is tehre
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) except it says Status: Dead
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but list the members
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and what not
[18:13] (@IzzyCreamcheese) shows him in the Crew list... but shows him as dead
[18:14] (althalus) would it be made that you could see all members
[18:14] (@IzzyCreamcheese) nah only made+
[18:14] (althalus) and not just the ones ranked made and above?
[18:14] (althalus) kk
[18:14] (Ralph) cruising for a cheap kill? :p
[18:14] (althalus) moi always :P
[18:15] (Johnny_Kraven) I have to run and feed myself, if it goes to a vote, I vote yes on the temp HQ
[18:15] (@IzzyCreamcheese) want to do a quick vote on the temp hq idea?
[18:15] (@IzzyCreamcheese) assuming we leave out the CLs rank when doing D
[18:15] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so he only gets from the other sources?
[18:15] (@IzzyCreamcheese) (probably a 10-30% reduction)
[18:16] (@IzzyCreamcheese) yes for me
[18:16] (Johnny_Kraven) vote - yes
[18:16] (althalus) yes
[18:16] (t1k) i'd vote yes!
[18:16] (Satanta) i'll say yes/maybe :P (need time to think)
[18:17] (Satanta) seems a decent comprimise
[18:17] (Patti) I'd yes, it seems fair
[18:18] (@IzzyCreamcheese) what this changes is:
[18:18] (@IzzyCreamcheese) lets them keep their auths
[18:18] (@IzzyCreamcheese) they can have an HQ forum to commmunicate
[18:18] (@IzzyCreamcheese) keep a % of their old defense boost
[18:19] (@IzzyCreamcheese) doenst seem to change much else when i think about it
[18:19] (tita) im still a no:/
[18:19] (@IzzyCreamcheese) unless im missing something
[18:19] (@IzzyCreamcheese) tita, what part of it is a no?
[18:19] (@IzzyCreamcheese) so we can expand on that and maybe find something better
[18:19] (tita) to be honest im more no now then before:(
[18:19] (@IzzyCreamcheese) your biggest no before was to being in a crew you didnt want
[18:19] (@IzzyCreamcheese) with a leader you didnt consent to
[18:20] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i thought this addressed it :)
[18:20] * Flash-Fire (~peek@2AF80C99.FDF3315C.1406D775.IP) Quit (Quit: Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast)
[18:20] (tita) because before there was some rp to it
[18:20] (@IzzyCreamcheese) the glaring rp problem with before was... when your CL dies, you instantly become easier to shoot
[18:20] (tita) right now there is nothing, i cant see a reason why someone should have a auth if their leader died
[18:20] (Ralph) he coded "Leave Family" just for you
[18:20] (@IzzyCreamcheese) then in theory
[18:21] (@IzzyCreamcheese) why shoudl a mademan not be able to shoot back in a war against a don?
[18:21] (@IzzyCreamcheese) he has to wait for the don to miss on him
[18:21] (@IzzyCreamcheese) before he is allowed to shoot back
[18:21] (tita) i dont see a reason why they need this protection
[18:21] (tita) no he can set up and take the shot
[18:21] (@IzzyCreamcheese) ok, a wiseguy then
[18:21] (@IzzyCreamcheese) against a boss
[18:22] (althalus) tita is a cl has died from wackback on an IA
[18:22] (althalus) why shouldn't there be a temp arrangement
[18:22] (tita) the way i see it is this, for example lets say im a leader
[18:22] (tita) in war with leader B
[18:22] (althalus) so that the family get a chance to not get killed
[18:22] (tita) i killed him
[18:23] (tita) i would most likely not use schorched earth
[18:23] (tita) however now since they keep the hq and the auth
[18:23] (tita) im gonna worry even about the lower ranks
[18:23] (tita) and then ill do scorched earth
[18:23] (@IzzyCreamcheese) everyone who is in a family, who is active
[18:23] (@IzzyCreamcheese) should be considered a threat
[18:23] (tita) thats the way i would think as a leader
[18:23] (althalus) tbh if your at war
[18:23] (althalus) your not just at war with the leader
[18:23] (althalus) your at war with the entire family
[18:24] (tita) yeah but was not always necessary to kill everyone
[18:24] (althalus) well that's a matter of opinion tbh
[18:25] (Johnny_Kraven) indeed
[18:25] (althalus) personally if i was to go to war with a family
[18:25] (althalus) i wouldn't leave anyone that could potentially become a threat to me alive
[18:25] (Johnny_Kraven) I dont think thats so much on the game mechanic as it is on game politics tita
[18:25] (Satanta) i'd love to give opinion, but i just have form. if i don't get a personal vouch for a cl on a member... ruprup
[18:26] (Satanta) *from a cl on a member
[18:26] (Satanta) if they're willing to take on that risk, then sure
[18:26] * t1k (~t1k@Jaundies-B5B58846.ukonline.co.uk) has left #gametalk
[18:26] (Satanta) i just let them know they'll be hit hard with fines or worse if it goes wrong
[18:27] (althalus) this idea as i see it
[18:28] (althalus) would give the RH the chance to negotiate with the agressor
[18:28] (Satanta) in theory, sure. in practise, no.
[18:28] (tita) plus this is not even about the rh anymore
[18:28] (Satanta) it's more a chance to fight back without having your hands tied
[18:29] (tita) is not about heriatage either
[18:29] (Satanta) and to protect people in an 'accident'
[18:29] (Satanta) or a 'lucky shot'
[18:29] (tita) its just a hq sitting there per say
[18:29] (althalus) true tita
[18:29] (althalus) but the rhm of the family would still be the rhm of the family
[18:29] (althalus) so his position should still be valid for making decisions and such
[18:30] (Johnny_Kraven) I think this is a small enough change to lead to further HQ/CL deaths changes in the future if want/need, i think its a
  good starting ground to give some people some recovery time that they want from keeping an HQ but also keep people from being trapped in HQs
  they dont want or keeping families up too long in war time
[18:30] (tita) i dont think it should work that way, the hq, the auth etc the boost, that is an advantage of being with a leader
[18:30] (tita) so if the leader dies, the rh is alive
[18:30] (tita) the crew continues on np without a leader
[18:30] (tita) that doesnt seem right
[18:30] (Johnny_Kraven) but you mentioned RP value, you dont just give up when your leader gets gunned down
[18:30] (tita) thats a massive change too
[18:30] (Johnny_Kraven) if anything you should be fueld with vengence
[18:32] (althalus) well a family is going to stick together after a leaders death
[18:32] (tita) you dont need to give up Johnny_Kraven
[18:32] (tita) you dont need an hq to not give up though
[18:32] (althalus) that's kinda the idea of building a family to get that bond
[18:32] (althalus) of it's gonna just fall apart after the cl is dead
[18:32] (Johnny_Kraven) No but you lose combat effectiveness, you said so yourself
[18:33] (althalus) then it wasn't really a family in the first place
[18:33] (tita) yeah but you are supposed to loose effectiveness, your leader died
[18:33] (Johnny_Kraven) Why should you lose perks, when essentially youre the same RP character
[18:33] (althalus) from a RP stand point you shouldn't
[18:33] (Johnny_Kraven) right
[18:33] (althalus) you've still done all the training you had
[18:33] (althalus) the kills you'd built up
[18:34] (tita) you cant play that rp there
[18:34] (tita) you get a boost from your leader
[18:34] (tita) the family is more powerful with the leader
[18:34] (tita) you get advantages by being with a leader
[18:34] (althalus) the way i understand it
[18:34] (tita) if leader dies
[18:34] (tita) you should loose those
[18:34] (althalus) you get a boost from your leader
[18:34] (tita) until you get a new leader
[18:34] (althalus) because he has bought a HQ
[18:34] (althalus) and his rank
[18:34] (Johnny_Kraven) Oh well, thats your opinion tita, i cant say much else on the  matter, if you dont agree you dont agree
[18:34] (althalus) the only boost your need to loose
[18:34] (althalus) is the rank boost the CL had
[18:35] * Zeus (AJ@F166A863.49FB016.B856ADCA.IP) Quit ([irc.mafiareturns.com] Local kill by Trevers_McCode (yes..a bit..this is harsh))
[18:35] (althalus) and lower the boost from the HQ a bit
[18:35] * Zeus (AJ@F166A863.49FB016.B856ADCA.IP) has joined #gametalk
[18:36] (Johnny_Kraven) I think half bonus is a good compromise, a family without a leader is weaker this is true, but from an RP stand point,
  they would also want revenge and thats a powerful driving point
[18:37] (Johnny_Kraven) plus its only a 24 hr bonus, some wars have gone on days
[18:37] (tita) i would agree with the idea if it worked only in accident times
[18:37] (tita) i think wars should be an exception
[18:37] (Satanta) what's the rp logic of having a wack/def boost of having a living cl?
[18:38] (Satanta) we're used of the idea, sure
[18:38] (Satanta) but rp wise?
[18:38] (Ralph) planning/coordination i guess
[18:38] * Zeus (AJ@F166A863.49FB016.B856ADCA.IP) Quit (Quit: )
[18:39] (Satanta) and a living rhm/hsl/etc doesn't provide 'some' of that?
[18:39] (Satanta) giving the same rp logic?
[18:39] (Ralph) I think it should
[18:40] (Ralph) can't have an army without a general :/
[18:41] (Satanta) and when the general gets clipped, the next in command takes his place
[18:41] (Ralph) aye
[18:41] (Satanta) until a replacement is put in
[18:44] (@IzzyCreamcheese) i have to run out
[18:44] (@IzzyCreamcheese) but feel free to pitch ideas and stuff
[18:44] (@IzzyCreamcheese) and ill review when i get back
[18:44] (@IzzyCreamcheese) sorry :(
[18:44] (@IzzyCreamcheese) didnt think this would go 2 hours :)
[18:44] (tita) ill give it sometime, need to think better about this:D