Chris walks through the thronged masses, the crowd parting before him like some modern day messiah teaching parables at the dead sea. He watches the orators speaking from their upturned Milk crates and soap boxes, but doesn't stop for long. Finally coming to a semi clear street corner, Chris stops and raises his head expectantly. Almost immediately men emerge from the crowd and hoist Chris onto their shoulders. These men aren't bodyguards, they aren't even members of SpaceMountain's family, they are simply people out doing their thing.
Almost as soon as Chris rises above the bustling crowds, many stop and look at him, borne aloft on the shoulders of his fans. Suddenly a chant starts to fill the air as one by one, the millions... and millions of Chris's fans start to chant his name, ' Rocky... Rocky... Rocky...' Chris raises a hand in the universal symbol of 'Shut your mouth' and the expectant multitudes fall silent.

Finally, The Rock, has returned... to the streets! Yes, it's the Rock, the People's Champion here once again to enthral and educate you. The Rock has come before you today to speak once more on a subject that galls the Rock. A subject that makes the Rock want to Spew the People's vomit. A subject that so repulses the Rock that he'd rather sleep with Gwarble's rotting corpse than be a part of it. Now you all know how the Rock feels about picking pockets...

From somewhere near the back of the crowd a lone Mobster, perhaps don, maybe even a godfather, it is impossible to tell from this distance starts to heckle the Rock, 'No we don't, and we don't care.'

Shut your mouth jabroni, oh yes you do. The whole wide world knows that the Rock thinks that anyone over the rank of Made man would be better of pleasuring themselves with a fist full of rusty barbed wire than picking some jabroni's pocket. However, the Rock hasn't come here today to talk to you about picking pockets, the Rock has come here today to talk to you about another subject altogether. You see, it all started earlier this week when one of the millions... and millions of the Rock's fans invited him to Dinner. It seems that this particular... Rock-et had just shot that bottom feeding 20c whore, Marla 'I make sowing Machines' Singer right through her cold black heart and wanted to celebrate his minor victory with the People's Champ. He even assured the Rock that there would be pie on the menu, so of course the Rock could not refuse. So finally, the Rock, returned... to New York City.
The Rock was picked up from New York Municipal airport and driven to meet his friend. Once their the Rock ate dinner, the Rock drank some tasty beverages, the Rock had several helpings of... pie! The Rock even had time to shoot the breeze with his friend. We discussed many subjects. We discussed how the Rock had to rescue his friend's lilly white ass from some jabroni's in jail a few weeks before. We discussed how the Rock had to lay the smackdown on some wisecracking monkey's ass from Philadelphia for running his mouth. We even had time to discuss how Godfather CrazyNine refused to participate in an Organized Crime the Rock had organised, despite there being a dozen jabroni's waiting to take his palce. We discussed all these things... shooting the breeze... but one subject came up that appalled the Rock, and that subject is taking a demotion from your boss to buy up Bodyguards.
See, let the Rock tell you something about the Rock. The Rock is a man of honour. The Rock knows what it means to take it to the line in defence of his family and friends. The Rock knows what it means when he gives his word., and because of this, the Rock knows what it feels like to not only bask in the adulation of the Millions... and millions of the Rock's fans, but to be loved by and worshiped by no less than two Godfathers.
Everyone knows that bodyguards aren't stupid. Bodyguards know full well that a Consigliere earns more than a thug, and charge accordingly for it, despite offering no extra protection or value for money. This obvious truism means that we get a lot of dishonourable people in this thing of ours, people prepared to go out and seek demotion, to lose their made status and have to work back up from the slime encrusted back alleys, just so they can cover their candy asses in cheap bodyguards. You see, the Rock isn't surrounded by the black suit brigade, the Rock knows the value of respect and the value of money.
The cheapest bodyguard the Rock ever bought was almost $3 million. The Rock also knows that should a war come knocking, the Rock will answer and take his chances with all the others with too much honour and self respect to take a voluntary demotion for no reason. The Rock knows that when HIS time comes, it will make no difference whether the Rock has 6 bodyguards or 600 bodyguards. What does matter is that the Rock will die with his honour intact, when HIS time comes. How many of you jabroni's out there with you 30, or 50, or 100 or 200 bodyguards can honestly say that you bought them without getting demoted back to thug? A demotion is a punishment for chris'sakes. Have we really sunk so low that we now accept demoted mobsters as men of honour? Is it right that people should seek out demotion as a mean to an ends?

Chris pauses for a moment to allow his questions to sink in.

Well the Rock has said what he came here to say, and once again the Rock has made it crystal clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt how he feels on the matter. The People's champ has asked the People's question and now it's up to you to step forward and prove if you are a man of honour or just another jabroni on his way to check into the Smackdown hotel!
If you smell-el-el-ah, what the Rock, is, cookin'!

Chris, buying bodyguards for someone is a business investment. It makes zero sense whatsoever to buy bodyguards for someone at consigliere rank for $4,750,000 when a thug can get them for a mere $750,000. You can try and pass yourself off as having 'honour' by not having an army of bodyguards, but I see it as purely bad business sense.. Buying yourself one bodyguard for almost 3 million, where you could have bought four times the amount for the same money.

You talk about defence of your family, yet contradict yourself by saying you won't accept extra defence? The way I see it, the better defended every single individual is the better defended the family. By spending multiple millions on one bodyguard when you can spend those multiples of millions on numerous bodyguards you are wasting money which could be spent more usefully.

So let the Rock get this straight Afro. You're saying that it is perfectly alright to take a punishment and turn it into something good? Lets face it, demotion is a punishment, pure and simple, and you are ok with people abusing a punishment to make themselves better? That seems a little unethical to the Rock. In that case, if you where to go to the bank tomorrow and withdraw exactly $8961, and you found out that if you withdrew exactly $8961 that your bank balance didn't go down, but if you withdrew $1 more or less it did, you would withdraw $8961 over and over again because withdrawing any other sum would be 'wasting money which could be spent more usefully'? After all, all you are doing is taking one system and abusing it much like demotion is.

Even the FBN see demotion as a punishment. They walk away from and refuse to do business with you. The very drug dealers who sell copious amounts of drugs to every Tom, Dick and Harry see it as a punishment and are happy to rub it in your face that you seem to have fallen out of favour, and therefore reduce the amount of drugs they will sell you.

The Rock finds it hard to believe that you are that naive Afro. That you would choose to abuse a syatem just cos every one else does. If the Whole of Philidelphia commit suicide tomorrow, will you do so too, just because every one else does it?

This obvious truism means that we get a lot of dishonourable people in this thing of ours, people prepared to go out and seek demotion

This was the point being made, AfroSamurai. Members going out and asking for demotions in helping themselves. And that is the problem that he has picked up on.

True, there are those that take their demotions by request of their bosses because it is cheaper. If your Don, tells you to take that demotion and work your way up again then that is just another order that you should follow. He may be investing in a particular member or perhaps trying to increase the defense of his family one member at a time. Who knows?

But there are those out there that look out for themselves. That buy their way to their way to the top (some sleep their way to the top like SpaceMountain). There are those that expect things as if it was their God given right. Members who ask for auth, members who tell their bosses "Hey, demote me! I need more BGs".

See, the effing issue lies in the fact that these mobsters seem to think that they have some epic bloodline and deserve the successes of their fathers. I'm sorry, but that bullshit does not fly with me and those leaders out there who allow these fools to call the shots need to catch a wake up.

a little unethical

But murdering, stealing, extorting and the countless other crimes we are involved in daily ARE ethical? It is only a punishment if it USED that way. Demotion is a tool we possess, if you demote to punish or to reward surely that is the leaders prerogative? Either way, it is only a punishment if intended so.

Dean, I wholly agree with exactly what you are saying - absolutely no arguments there.

Can you sum up what you mean in 1 line? If you can, can you show me?

You say its up to how it is used Afro, but whether demoting to buy BGs or demoting as punishment, the net effect is identical, a Made Man demoted back to associate who now has the ability to buy cheap bodyguards.

If demotion is a punishment, then it should be used as a punishment, and not have any positive sides. And when I referred to ethical, I meant our ethics, the ethics of honour, and Omerta, and family.

If you say these people are dishonourable, even when it's requested, then what about the crewleaders or godfathers/godmothers themselves? I mean, members can't demote themselves you know. It's in the hands of the leader. And given that fact, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it's the leader who's committing a dishonourable act? Just trying to understand this better so I know exactly where I stand in this debate.

Dean - I think Chris is actually calling out the entire practice of demoting for benefit (whether told to or not) as it's pretty inconsistent with the principles of Cosa Nostra (i.e., why the fuck would a Don be happily reprimanded by his boss and go live in a gutter for a few weeks just to catch a deal on bodyguards).  Or maybe I've just been so electrified that I'm missing the point.  

This isn't to say that I don't agree with you - Absolutely, unless city hall steps in to seal this loophole with the BG contractor, just do what your boss says.  But the whole process is a little sleazy, especially for a Champion of the Rock's caliber.

Agreed Chris. If a crewleader uses it as punishment, I agree. But that is up to the crewleader themselves to police.. hell, if I had just punished someone with demotion and saw them with a plethora of protection I would put a bullet between their eyes and set the hitsquad on his ex-bodyguards.

But my point still stands. Demotion is still just something we can do, whether used as a punishment or otherwise.

Well the ROck thanks you for your opinion Afro. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. And yes sureshot, you got the Rock's point exactly. The Rock has been offered Bodyguards via demotion on three seperate occasions, and on three seperate occasions the Rock has said no.

In fact, most of those, if not all, offering the dmotion agreed with the Rock's reasons for not taking it.

Finally, Crazy, I guess you are right. If a Godfather or Don orders a demotion just to bodyguard up a highranking member of hgis family then I guess that does make him dishonorable too. What happens if 20 seconds later war breaks out? You've lost a high rank potential hitter, and made them a lot easier to kill in return. Sure you can't live you life on what ifs, but the Great One would rather hedge his bets than risk it all on the roll of a dice.

With all do respect Chris, I'm not looking for your guesses. I'm looking for a point here so I know where you're argument stands.

I can see where some people see this as a dishonorable practice. I don't totally agree with them but it's not an insane position to take. However we are all involved in a lifestyle where the people that can play all the angles tend to succeed and, if there is a loophole that can be used to gain an advantage, I would expect people to use it. To me it's not a question of honor or ethics. It's business pure and simple.

nice one Crazy_Psychopath

Well with all due respect CP The Rock thought he had made his poits abundantly clear. The Rocks says that taking a punishment for the sole purpose of hiring a flotilla of Bodyguards is an abuse of what we are supposed to hold dear. It is a cheat, a way to beat the system, and I agree that City Hall needs to regulate the bodyguard industry more so that what is essentially a form of punishment can go back to being that for which it was intended. The Rock then essentially asked you if you agreed or disagreed and why.

Any clearer?

Hugglebore, everyone knows that the Rock likes to talk trash, if you didn't want to listen, you should have walked on by.

Chris gestures with his fingers... to simulate walking.

Walk on Hugglebore... walk on.

I am lost in this talking in third person....wait sorry HuggleBear is confused he asks The Rock if he can explain this while HuggleBear stands next to Chris Vaughn

This is something I've debating around a with for quite a while, Chris - we seem to be both on the same wavelength when it comes down to the actual concept.

My bloodline joined these shores many, many years ago - well documented by my patriarch, the men in black and blue weren't open to bribing by us mobsters. The average joe jailbreak back then was more than just luck - it was risk, and needed collaborative teamwork. The powers that were in force required you to put tremendous effort into achieving your Button status - effort that could take you years to even scratch the surface in earning your place as a Made Man. A job gone wrong and a flight to a barred city resulted in him taking a demotion and an incredibly stern warning from his Boss - who had already slain another member for the same offense, meant he had to earn his way back up the ladder. He clawed his way to Made Man status - finally - only to meet his end in a city war days later. His value of the status of becoming a Made Man, however, and the seriousness that he took a demotion as has passed on all of the way down to the current blood relative - me.

While the view may be outdated, I have always seen a demotion as a punishment. There's no candy coated silver lining out of it. As for the status of Made Man - Again, the view may be outdated, but I see it as more than just a title tacked on. They're bound by blood and Omerta - and there's something about changing that process which makes me uncomfortable. While I more than understand the security that is necessary in today's world, my upbringings prevent me from seeing this as an acceptable process. Demotions are an implied punishment - and should, in my opinion, only be used that way.

It is hard to speak about this Christopher; partly because realism and practicality are butting heads with each other and partly because I'm too busy fighting off all the pretty girls who can't resist a slice of Gwarble. This leads me to the conclusion that your suggestion that my body is anything less than the envy of the Gods stems from obvious jealousy.

My Adonis-like physique aside, this is one of those things a lot like the -48 stance which is pretty much indefensible when it comes to realism. There is no reason (that I can think of at least) that would make sense for Pete the Protégé to be humiliatingly sent back to the gutters, only to start trotting around with 50 henchmen in tow. It doesn't make sense.

By the same token however, spending 7x as much for the same level of protection doesn't make any sense from a practical sense. You can try to pretend it is honourable, but I can see little in the way of prestige being awarded to those maintain their rank comparative to those who'll earn them back within a month.

I don't think this is a matter of honour or dishonour. I think this is a case of what is financially practical. Unless a higher rank is getting a better bodyguard for his money, he's just being taken for a ride and as such the paradigm is not going to shift. This is more something for our omnipotent friends to address if they feel this practice to be intolerable.

Similarly therefore, I don't think it is honourable or dishonourable for the leaders or Godfathers who choose to employ this method, especially as I am one those who do. The merit of whether it is a good or bad decision to demote the member in question doesn't stem from a 'what if' scenario, in fact the proof is in the pudding. If that member gets back to Don with 7x more BGs than they would have had - good decision. If they choke on the first bullet aimed at them, barely better than a petty thief - bad decision.

~G~warble.

HuggleBear loves listening to trash that is why he is hear listening. He also loooooves what you done with his name HuggleBear chuckles at The Douches joke,

"ha..ha"

That's the HuggleBear chuckling at his own joke.

The HuggleBear sits and waits for more self proclaimed trash to come out from the Douche while listening to awesome replies from fellow members of this world