An older man makes his way onto the streets, his clothes looking out of place for this time an place, but as is the way with these things no one hardly bats an eye. He is also far older looking than his father, at least double his age possibly even triple it, but again as this is the way of things in our world, no one even comments on this particular peculiarity. To do so would be very out of character for todays, modern mafioso after all. When he speaks his voice is pleasant to listen too, and he is polite and unassuming again very unlike his father.

I've come here today to discuss something that has always been at the forefront of my mind. It is a subject that my father and I often debated into the small hours of the night, and one on which he himself had wanted to speak to you today about. however, as we all know, his death put an end to that plan. So if you will allow this humble gangster to speak on his behalf, I will take up the reigns.

Palpatine takes a moment to compose himself, the pain of his father's recent demise obviously still plaing on the emotions of the man, before continuing.

Why is it that we are so critical and quick to unite against the percieved threat of the Rogues in our community. In fact such is our hatred of these individuals that those touched with madness are often declared rogue and hunted down and killed as well. In my mind, and that of my father, a Rogue was someone who tried to seize power without authorization, not someone who just disrespected his crew leader by buying out and shooting at random individuals. Such a man is obviously inflicted with a mental instability, after all, whom in their right mind would wander the streets, randomly shooting anyone who crosses their path?

No a rogue is much more than that. For instance, if instead of the 'Coalition of the Right' going to Philidelphia and killing CrazyNine, or as my father liked to call him C*N*, what if one man had decided to take it upon himself to go there and wipe them out, all of them? What if a man like my father, or chade, or Lord_X even, had spoken to their Godfather and said, 'I will buy out and go to Philly. I will kill this man whom has offended us, and I will take control of the city. I will bend it to my will and make it flourish, make it a place of honour once more.'?

In doing so that man would be what we term a Rogue. He would have bought out, went to Philly, killed its rightful Godfather, slaughtered his followers en masse, and set up as the new boss, all without authorization. All he has done is siezed power much in the ways our forefathers did. The legendary Scarface, Al Capone seized power himself in this way, murdering all those above him who stood in his way, and consolidating what remained as his own. Was he a threat to the other outfits? No. Obviously not. He had set himself a goal, and set about achieving it the only way he could.

I remember a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, on the day of Saint Valentine, the Gods declared that their should be war so that they could create the world anew. After the titanic battle, the Gods wiped the world clean and re-created it again. Men from near and far rushed back to fill the vacuum of power that had been created and fought and murdered one another to become the first to set up. Are they not by our current definition of what is a Rogue all Rogues themselves?

So how do you feel on this subject, is there a time an a place where Rogues should be permitted, or should they always be hunted down by all cities and slaughtered?

Before I even say anything, I want my leaders to know (and everyone else) that these are my views and my views alone, and they do not mean to offend anyone in any way.

In my opinion I think it should be left up to the home city or the city of which the rogue is rampaging in to clean the mess up, aslong as the person is only a threat to that city and that city alone. Why should we get our hands dirty for some other city if the consequences of said city being taken down by a rogue have no effect on us?

But if a rogue is seen as a threat to all of Cosa Nostra then by all means neccesary the person or persons should be taken down. I have more to say on the matter but unfortunately my time is short.

Croccifixio steps back and then speedily walks off down the street.

Palpatine, you bring up some great points there. Indeed in the beginning of this thing of ours, we were all considered rogues, but in such firmly established times like today, things are definitely different.

The fact of the matter is, our leaders are so intolerant towards rogues because of their unpredictable nature. We kill them, not because we care about our community, but moreso because of our own selfish fear of having one of our own possibly being the next victim. You never know with rogues.

Take the last (successful) rogue: Pollo-Cacciatora. Who would have thought that Memphis_Raines would be gunned down in his sleep?

In a normal war, leaders that are at risk are typically protected by those below them. In the case of a rogue, nobody knows exactly what the agenda is, therefore anyone and everyone is vulnerable. Sure, some rogues might have good intentions, but who would take that kind of risk?

Both of you bring up valid points. Croccifixio seems to be more on my side in this, where as Ritzo is following the more classic point of view. Surely thouh Ritzo, with the way war is changing, the Threat we feel from Rogues is now a universal given. After all, the take down of the Retched hive of scum and villany that was Philly was not a classic war in any sense. It was a well planned and executed tactical assault that resulted in few casualties on the winning side and the almost complete annhilation of C*N*'s city before the old man even awoke from his slumber. Whilst tensions between Philly and LA where strained at best, I have no doubt that C*N* did not forsee the coming battle, otherwise he would not have slept so soundly that night.

In that sense it is now possible that any person or city is at risk from sudden and seemingly unprovoked assassination from any Godfather or Crewleader that takes offence at how you deport yourself. Does that make all leaders potential Rogues? After this weekends battle, if we had a system of monitoring the condition of the defences of al Cities, I would say they are all on DefCom 4 atthis momen in time, wary f a possible attack at any moment.

Perhaps my understanding is rudimentry and I have no place to offer an opinion, I am very young after all.

While the background for these indiviuals often varies, some have the best intentions - while others are simply out for a bloodstreak, they fundmentally the same.

They have placed themselves before family. Which is inexcusable.

With respect to the original St. Valentine's... there was no clear structure following the aftermath. All bets were off.

I would suggest the title of “rogue” be a little tame for the type of individual we are referring to.

We are obviously talking of someone who is armed, and has intentions of doing harm. Unfortunately members of our society who choose to go down this path have revealed their intentions and generally speaking their first act of individualism is often the most damaging.With this in mind, the title of “rogue” is mostly apportioned after the act.

I would suggest that anyone who commits such an act of individualism is in their actions, confirming the will to be separate from the organisational restraints we as a society must adhere to and uphold.

The acts of an organisation within this thing of ours is separated from the above by virtue of the fact that the will of the individual is sanctioned by the members of that organisation or faction. In other words, it`s “family”. The actions maybe considered unjustified or misplaced by others, and retribution  may result. This is the way it is however, this is the path we choose.

I feel that a rogue is just someone who does anything that effects This Thing Of Ours in any way, without first consulting their Crew Leader. I am not condoning the actions of these men. But isn't it true that if a "Rouge" pops up and fails he is considered a disgrace and killed and forgotten by history? Yet if he succeeds he is called an opportunistic....a revolutionary? Wont he be remembered forever? Whenever some new " Rogue" comes along and tries to follow in the revolutionist's footsteps, if he succeeds he will be compared to the other rogues who have succeeded? After all what is Julius Caesar if not a rogue? He went against the current leadership of Pompey, defeated him and took control of the government. And until this very day he is considered one of History's greatest leaders?

Fulmineo takes a deep breath after that long speech. " To conclude my point... A rogue is only bad...when he fails.....but should he succeed? well then its a different ball game all together 

When people talk of rogues, they're not talking about people that have gone bold under the instruction or agreement of their Godfather. They're referring to a loner that has left their family without authorisation, gone bold in an aggressive manner and started trying to do harm.

Why are they perceived/handled as they are? Because they're a threat to those in charge and, by extension, their families. They're an unknown quantity. Whether the harm they're causing is targeted or indiscriminate is almost irrelevant, they have the potential to inflict harm on any city and are treated as such. The leaders are the ones that the rogue is trying to usurp, so the fact they're treated this way is no surprise.

palpatine nods sagely for a minute whilst he listens to Hoopi before offering some polite applause to him and all the others whom have spoken before him.

I can see your point to a certain degree Hoopi, but can I offer you yet another scenerio? As we all know, the Philly attack was planned before it took place, it was too well co-ordinated to be anything else. If a Don had gone rogue in the early hours of Friday morning and made a public statement that he was only targeting Philladelpia Hoodlums because of their repeated attempted one-upmanship and badly orchestrated attempts to humiliate or lambast other men of honour at ever oppertunity, would the Upper structure of LA have jumped to Philly's defence and shot this immoral rogue dead, or would you have surrepticiously sat bck and seen how much damage he could achieve before C*N* awoke and attempted to deal with the threat himself?

As Ritzo stated before, the problem with Rogues is that they're unpredictable and can thus be seen as a threat to anyone. With this in mind, I would have to agree that they need to be hunted down by all cities as a precaution. However, with the changing war strategies that we have seen recently, there may be a new place for "rogues." If, say, a Godfather wanted to not only take down a city but also take it over he could send out some of his people to set up an HQ in said target city.

I've never heard of a take over in this thing of ours nor am I debating the morality of such actions but, in my opinion, if there is a place for Rogues to be heroes, as Palpatine suggested, it would be in this kind of scenario. Would the remaining cities see this as a threat and decide to declare war on the Godfather and his "rogues"? And would they even be considered rogues if they are backed by a Godfather?

If nothing else, it is an interesting idea to ponder and discuss...

If a Don had gone rogue in the early hours of Friday morning and made a public statement that he was only targeting Philladelpia Hoodlums

If a Don had done that I am sure they would kill him just as any other rogue would be disposed of. I am sure they would not likely trust the words of someone who had gotten themselves to the rank of Don only to betray those most close to him.

We are an organised crime front. Rogues are not a part of that, they are bad for business so they are removed.

I think you misunderstand, I did not mean to imply that it was a LA Don, say a NY Don, or a New Orleans Don, who has no attachment to LA and would therefore not have betrayed anyone in LA itself. Are you saying in this case that LA would still have gone to the help of a City that they themselves were planning to level for the very same reasons in less than 24 hours?

Dear Palpatine, as you know - family comes first, before the individual. Passion and profit come after the good of the whole. Perhaps the hypothetical Don knew of the plans and acted in haste. His selfish act could of tip the scale in an unforgiving manner (alerting the enemy, waking up hitters, giving them time to arrange defenses). Or perhaps the Don knew nothing of the planned take down and acted out of blind rage, producing the same results. Also equally embarrassing. A family is strongest when it is unified - when it's members exemplify loyalty and discipline. On the same token, when you fight a war - you fight to win. A false flag attack might be arranged to lightened defenses...

"I think you misunderstand, I did not mean to imply that it was a LA Don, say a NY Don, or a New Orleans Don, who has no attachment to LA and would therefore not have betrayed anyone in LA itself. Are you saying in this case that LA would still have gone to the help of a City that they themselves were planning to level for the very same reasons in less than 24 hours?"


Turning agaisnt the family doesn't matter what the reason or cause is, you turn your back on the family for a different agenda that goes away from the meaning of family.

It doesn't matter why you rogue good reason or not you are a rogue, you turned your back on people that gave you a home and allowed you to rank and train enough to give you the chance to go rogue, but true family would never take that chance. Loyalty isn't just a word to some of us, it is a way of life.

"You turned your back on people that gave you a home and allowed you to rank and train enough to give you the chance to go rogue."

If someone were to have their own agenda, the ONLY way they could accomplish it would be to join a family. It doesn't matter which one, they have to join ONE of them, or they get killed. If they never join a family, rank up and carry out their plan, there's nothing dishonorable whatsoever. But they'll die before then. When you don't give someone the ability to do something honorably, they do it dishonorably.

Not only are rogues a threat and menace, but they disrupt the hierarchy of our world. People speak of respect, honor, and loyalty; but all of that is joined a larger umbrella called social order. If anyone could just undermine the current leaders that were in place, then what purpose do those leaders serve? They would be no more than a holding tank. We trust the the Godfathers to make the decisions across the 8 cities because they have earned that due respect by getting authed (Getting authed does not automatically get you respect, but it means someone someplace has shown some confidence in you.) Rogues disrupt the fabric by going against the norms of society and undermine the positions of power held by the Godfathers. They are hunted and killed because they are going against the norm. Simple as. Just like the C.E.O of any company they make the decisions, not the individual.

In order to buy and HQ you need to be ranked Made Man or above. Upon gaining the rank of Made, you swear a blood oath to your family (This may have been lost with a younger generation). A rogue is someone who buys out without permission and sets up their own family, or just wants to cause mayhem, without the wishes of the higher ups. That is direct defience and disrespect for the person you swore a blood oath to, and you deserve to die for breaking that oath. The price for breaking such an important ritual is your own blood. Any powerful leader ever would have been nothing if his members had not held this promise dear to them. If this norm was suddenly done away with our world would break into chaos. Swift justice is needed to keep people in line and maintain the social order. If you go against the grains of society, your going to get done away with.

Angelique listens carefully to everyone's point of view while leaning on her car and smoking a cigarette. Stubbing it out, she steps forward

Some great points are being made and a good discussion for all to hear I think, especially those new to us.

In that sense it is now possible that any person or city is at risk from sudden and seemingly unprovoked assassination from any Godfather or Crewleader that takes offence at how you deport yourself. Does that make all leaders potential Rogues?

No, Palpatine, that does not. The Godfathers and Leaders of our society have the power of being the ultimate judge and jury on such matters. And it there is an issue causing them to take offence then it is hardly "unprovoked"

"However, with the changing war strategies that we have seen recently, there may be a new place for "rogues." If, say, a Godfather wanted to not only take down a city but also take it over he could send out some of his people to set up an HQ in said target city"

No, Lolita, this man would not be a rogue as he has been authed by his Godfather to do what he is doing. Generations of my family diaries speak of many wars, this has been done for years and years, I also am not seeing what changing war strategies you are talking about? War is fought in our society by whatever means necessary no matter the reasons for. You fight to protect your own in the best way possible which can be many different scenarios.

Returning from his errands, Croccifixio walks back to where the conversation is taking place, he notices many more people are here now and he steps forward and speaks once again.

As I was saying, why should we put our hands into other cities business if it is of no concern to us? For example, say Mr X is a crewleader, but hes rarely seen and his RHM Mr Y basically runs the family in his place since Mr X is too lazy to do so. Mr Y has enough of his bosses lazyness and decides hes more fit to be a crewleader than Mr X. Mr Y then takes out Mr X and sets up his own crew in its place, recruiting all of the old family members (whom apparently also agreed with what needed to happen).

Does this make Mr Y a rogue? Apparently it does. Should he be taken down for his actions, even though he poses no threat to any other city or crew? In my opinion no he shouldn't. Now lets imagine Mr X was actually a Godfather, or acting head of a city, so there was noone above Mr Y to auth his actions. Does this make it any different in your opinion? In my opinion it makes it even more fair.

Back where my family lines originated there was no concept of a rogue. Small tightnit groups that called themselves families were just as common as big groups that we would recognise as families here. And don't forget that alot of the blood ties here on these very shores come from people who were once bold enough to go rogue themselves to fight for what they believed to be right.

i would say to palpatine,that its completely unjust,and exremely disrespctful to even compare our dons and godfathers to a rouge.

Now taking in everything you say about your father; palpatine if one was not to sit on the fance it could be miscontruded that one was bitter, now this maybe not the case and im not implaying that this is a bitter war of words was a slight dig at the dons and gf's who,killed off your father and wiped out the city. im not for, one minute pointing out that this is the case, just speculating as how effectivley we have a young man in his new life,comparing gf's and dons to a rouge.

Now rouges of this world,in my eyes are scum no more nor no less,with evey bit of honour and respect they have gained, lost in that second they buy out of there crew.

ok lets put it into context of recent events; what we witnessed was beautiful,it was a work of art, it was not one person with no agenda and with no skill or no power taking out 2 at max,and as you put it taking out a gf,very unlikley!

No rouge could ever conduct the masacre that occured, there was motive and exacustion these are not the weapons that a rouge has and never will, we kill and hate rouges purley based on the time they waste,admittingly they cause mass worry,but are usually rectified promptly through co-operation from all cities involved,that shows the collective hatred towards rouges.

so my opponion is they dont have a place on these streets,they will never be excepted nor can we compare gf's to rouges.

Palpatine inwardly sighs, but externally he does nothing more than smile warmly at Alf-the-Mouth. Momentarily he thinks to himself that the unamed dead thug was right, his name did sound remarkably like... but tghis was not the time or place to distract himself with such simple word pleasures, his father had derived great pleasure from the cheap pop he got ridiculing people's names like that, but not he, well not for all to hear anyway.

I'm afraid you don't seem to have truely heard what I was saying Mr Mouth. Yes, you have listened to essence, but you seem to show a certain failure to grasp my salient points. I am not bitter that my father was killed off by Dons and Godfathers as you put it. My father was not 'Killed off', my Father layed down his life for his family, for Godfather SpaceMountain's family, for little people like you serving under the guidence of one of SpaceMoutain's Capos, Gwarble. He sacrificed himself to give his Godfather the shot he needed to kill CrazyNine, and I am incredably proud of him. I personally believe that his actions are what got me an invite into the Godfather's family considering that before that fateful day he had never met me. Loyalty, Honour and Sacrifice. What have you or your father ever sacrificed, other than your intellect? But I digress, back to the matter at hand.

You say that Rogues, and occasionally Rouges are the scum of the earth that have lost all honour in your eyes, but if you do not personally know the rogue, or their reasons, or their honour, then who are you to judge. You see this is something that my Grandfather brought up. We seem to be living in some kind of idealised imagining of how Mafia life should be, not actually living life as it is. We all hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya. We offer respect and honour to every one automatically whether its earned or not. Its high time things changed.

The Godfather of Los Angeles should not give a damn about what goes on in Philly unless it entails one of three things. 1) What's happening in Philly directly, or indirrectly affects Los Angeles, in that it is reducing the income of Los Angeles or threatening the safety of Los Angeles. 2) Something about Philly is of interest to the GF and he wants to take over that City. 3) The GF has a close bond or tie to the GF of Philly and they have a Treaty in place that assures assistance to the other when under attack. Other than those three situations then should the Ghost of Elizabeth I ride into Philly on the back of a Spectral Unicorn, then anyone unafilliated with that city should not care.

Again, I apologise for my digression, its just a subject that is close to my heart. As for what you have accused me off Mr Mouth, Comparing Dons and Godfathers to Rogues, I did no such thing. I asked a question, I put forward a hypothathesis based on the answers that I had been given already and asked if it was correct. I did not compare the takedown of Philly to 'one person with no agenda and with no skill or no power', that was your doing. And if you think for One minute that a dedicated and Hard working Don with contacts, and a clear agenda and purpose woulld only manage to take down one or two people then you are very young and niave. My family has witnessed entire crews destroyed in the past by one man. And a Don shooting and killing a Godfather is not that beyond the realms of possibility if the Don has trained his gun skills sufficiently, after all, that Don might even have the ability to be a Godfather himself if he were to set up in a city as a leader and form a crew.

Furthermore why has a rogue no motive? Are rogues devoid of intellect or personality just because they decide to take things into their own hands? If I take offense at anything you have said, and buy out of my family, hunt you down and kill you for it, is that not motive? If as has been suggested, a Godfather's RHM, disgusted with how poorly run the city is, kills his Godfather and takes over the running of the city and the family, is again that not motive? Not all Rogues are people who are just bored with life and want to go out in a blaze of glory! And whilst most are taken care of in short order, many live for hours and at least partially accomplish their goals, the so called rogues you speak off are the one's who have not planned their move, who have not got a plan of action or a goal to achieve and just want 15 minutes of noteriety and fame before they die.

Palpatine composes himself and takes a short breath before smiling warmly and continuing.

Just a few last points Mr Mouth, I'd hate to keep you from wasting air or what ever it is you do for the Honourable Gwarble. You need to hear what people say, not listen in a half assed way and then jump to conclusions. You need to research your 'enemy' and no him and his background before you jump to conclusions that make you look like an ass in public, thus dishonouring your Boss by making people believe he employs idiots and does nothing to improve or better them, which in Gwarbles case I know is not true. And finally...

Palpatine pauses for a moment as that all too familiar word brings back memories of his dear departed father.

Yes, finally, thank you for your humble opinion, I am grateful that you took the time out of your busy schedule to come down to the streets and share it with us common folks.