What has sparked the change that has made MIAs in essence free kills? Now please correct me if I'm wrong but when they were first implemented were they not put in with a chance that they could be stolen, which is why there was a thirty min window before they turned. Also at the time they were implemented there was the benefit of BG wacking a MIA to find its city, which has been taken out as to allow the people who purchased the MIA more chance - or so I believe was the reason.

So can someone please enlighten me as to the reason that all the real hunting ethic has been eliminated from MIA purchases with the MIA turning with like two minutes of purchase, yes I know people are against MIA stealing but that doesn't negate the fact that now no effort is even needed to get a MIA kill. Which is now if I'm correct 3 every two days, 12 a week, roughly 48 free kills a month. If this is right I don't know what is wrong. Aren't we taking a step backward with this?

Elimination of the old wack system to level the playing field, implementation of MIAs to give people a chance to train there guns while also aiding in the improvement of their guns during a time where IA count seems to be quite low, which is the reason why RIAs were introduced. NPCs were introduced to give people something to shoot at while the game is so stagnant. All done for the betterment of the game but what reason is there to shorten the period a MIA has to turn and so drastically?

I couldn't agree with you more. I for one miss the old days of wack methods. Prior to Ajax which I'm against as well, which I also believe
was to help settle the, "He's cheating and using programs to win! It's not fair if I don't have a great connection," issues. But correct me if i'm wrong, piggeh had one of the slowest computers and connections yet he was still a feared hitter. Now of course I can see where the entertainment value has been increased.. Not so many bored hitters, but now everyone can be a hitter, so now you have those who have no self control or training running around with guns that actually work. I don't know maybe it's better for the world... But in my eyes, it's hurt the art of it all.

I don't really know what I can say to this that I haven't already said several times before.

Free kills, bad, lack of skill, too many wackers, too many BGs, too many kills, defence problems, money blah, blah, blah.

I'm bored of talking about it and wasting thousands of words doing so. I'll let other people have a try and save myself the effort.

Amen

Yes i agree with RF here... MIA's are too easy to kill these days. With NPC's and RIA's... there is plenty of targets for people to practice on. MIA's are good, but the thirty minute window should come back, not a 1 minute... that is too easy in my opinion. Good point RF!

Okay, on one hand you have an MIA costing upwards of 200k, (your a player) - you want that kill. (Your an admin) - you want that money.

On the other hand you have a hitter.. He wants your kill too! (For free)

Then on a completely different persons hand :) You have someone crying cause Joe hitter stole their kill.(Thats unfair) (thats not right) blah blah

Now, with the fact that most seasoned vets are vwp,ewp,iwp all the wp's you can dream up. There is a balance here, so stay with me.

In that Crews want hitters - new blood who can show they can hit and be successful. They are NP (Not Protected) usually armed with super soakers (water pistols)...

Now, some people (and I do mean some) do not live to play MR...They have to pop on when life allows them that liberty. They do not own the game, nor do they care what all the ego trippers of the MR world really think. They are here to have fun and play. These folks cannot spend hours apon hours apon hours waiting to take a 1 in 100 or so shot (If you call that skill)

So lets just imagine for a moment, that in some weird way to allow some folks to enjoy more aspects of the game (besides just clicking buttons that benefit others) who can't be here 21/7 and drudge around getting every kill known to man just to protect themselves against all of the long tried and true bloodlines lurking about who have brought this game so fucking far...

That there is a reason for it. And the best thing to do is to get with the times and use it to your advantage instead of complaining about how wrong everything is, or how it used to be.


This is not directed towards anyone in particular - This is what my rational of the situation is as a whole. My suggestion to those that are fed up...Start a war, or quit - do something that requires more than just running mouths.

I gave up shooting long ago because of the way things went, not that I'm not hard working, but it just got all so silly. The implementations are understandable though if indeed, the MIA's pop up within minutes(and I don't doubt that statement), then we have stepped away somewhat from the fine line in pleasing everyone.

It's a hard call to master.

I agree with the pros and cons of this easy wacking. Old style of wacking was more challenging I think. But what do you actually think we should do?

Wackers are having the time of there life and I'm surely not going to give up a free kill? I suggest maybe only a few every week or so. Or if people are still not satisfied, maybe even a month. It will balance out the wackers. I agree that its not hard to reach 100 kills if you worked on it.

So maybe 5MIA's a month? That would make the apperance of the Durdens less too. I think it will eliminate killers who just have a big wallet. It has just gotten too easy for us.

The fact of the matter is, this game is about guns. Sure, someone can RP in the streets, but it's the guns that change things. So, when the MIA system was created, it allowed users to create guns (not superguns, but guns) that could be used in battle. Let's face it, not everyone is a hitter. BUT, that doesn't mean everyone can't have a gun. By allowing lesser-known players to get 45(ish) kills a month, they can have a gun that's useful in war, but not a cannon. This is the admin's way of incorporating the "rest of the family" in wars.

With the old wack system, we had; the boss, the hitters, and the proers. Now, with this system, everyone (if they choose to) can be a BG wacker, or someone to kill your enemies pro-wackers. So, now the boss can organize a squad together. He has his hardcore hitters, to take out the larger guns, and his MIA hitters, who've collected 90+ kills because their accounts are so damn old... Anyways, by making it easy, but having a cap on it, wars no longer exclude the little guys.

So lets just imagine for a moment, that in some weird way to allow some folks to enjoy more aspects of the game (besides just clicking buttons that benefit others) who can't be here 21/7 and drudge around getting every kill known to man just to protect themselves against all of the long tried and true bloodlines lurking about who have brought this game so fucking far...

What happened to the other three hours?

That's what the non-addicts like to call 'Sleep'.

I gave up trying to understand everything involving the wack system. I think most might as well. One good thing is they're done messing with it :D

Lol @ TheJoker. Yerp

I think it is interesting to have a open discussion about this... and i am sure that balancing the whole hitting part of this game is a hell of  a lot of work and headackes. Sure, we can point out the con's in the system and give our point of views of how we would like it to be. One thing for sure though, is that the admins are doing a hell of a good job trying to balance everything and i cant be more grateful for it. After hearing what Alfonse has to say and beeing quite clear with his explainations... i agree that maybe messing with it is'nt such a great idea. It is fine the way it is, i guess if you want to steal MIA's... you never to be very clever and hehe very "sneaky". Good luck to all the hitters!:)

<blockquote>never to be very clever and hehe very "sneaky". Good luck to all the hitters!:)</blockquote>

Uhh... i meant to say... HAVE to be clever and very "sneaky". Sorry about that one people!

In my honest opinion, Alfonse couldn't of said it any better. The system has it's flaws but so does our world, MIA's are there so younger less experienced players and the laid back players can still be an asset towards there crew.

I'm for including everyone in the war effort but should that come at the cost of the game play, if you think so then what kind of true gamer are you? With NPCs, RIAs why should the MIA kills be made even easier, by shortening the time period you have to wait. Why should the wack system now benefit those with a fat wallet rather than those who have trained their craft? Those of you who are in favour of this change seem to be the ones benefiting the most from that change that is why you're for it.

And why should everyone have 90+ kill guns, this game is a RP game, we are role playing American Mobsters in the prohibition era, and was every mobster a hitman? No! So by you saying that everyone deserves a decent gun is not correct. The roles in the mob were vast, but since people seem to believe that a hitter is the only role within the mafia then the admins might as well take out the forums and we can all focus on hitting, how about that? Yeah I thought you wouldn't be happy with that cause then you're taking stuff away from people who don't wish to hit.

I will sum up that rant simply as this, if you want to be part of what was once an elite group - hitters - then why should you just be given the tools on a plate to do it? Why should you not have to train the skill? And if that is the case that the kills should just be given to you, then I would expect for you to agree that the accounts that have been around from when the MIAs were implemented should be given those extra kills that they were not handed, which would be about 30 for the first few months as you could only hit 15 a month, then 15 for the months after that as you could hit 1 a day.

First of all, you need to take a side. There are those who play MafiaReturns as a game, and those who play the role-play. Those two sides are at conflict in almost all aspects of daily life. You start off challenging "what kind of true gamer" I am, but you contradict yourself. Multiple times. You say kills shouldn't be as easy to grab then suggest that the oldest accounts (and strongest guns) should be (and I quote) "given extra kills", just for staying alive so long. Yeah, that doesn't sound like a "true gamer", or a mobster.

Want to know what's funny? Not everyone 2 months old has 90+ kills. Even though MIA wacking has made it easy enough for a monkey to do it, it still doesn't happen! You say "was every mobster a hitman"? No. They weren't. But what else is there to do? You either earn or hit. Beyond that, you serve no real purpose or value to your boss. Also, I never said "everyone deserves a decent gun". I said anyone is CAPABLE of a decent gun. Read. Please. Also, your bit about the forums is completely irrelevant. The street and bar forums become obsolete when RP does. Guns will never be obsolete.

As for your last point, the tools to become a hitter have always been there. A wack page and a target. Sure, with the introduction of "info skill", targeting the IAs has become difficult, but that's just another part of hitting. If you don't like people getting so many kills, take them out before they get that many. It's not always a code change that's needed to fix a problem.

You say kills shouldn't be as easy to grab then suggest that the oldest accounts (and strongest guns) should be (and I quote) "given extra kills", just for staying alive so long. Yeah, that doesn't sound like a "true gamer", or a mobster.

If you read my post in its entirety you would have understood that I was making that point that since kills are being given out so easily now and you seem to think it is a wise addition, then those accounts who have been around from when MIAs were first implemented (and I would of hoped you would of assumed those that were actually hunting them) be given the extra kills that weren't available to them when first implemented.

Also, I never said "everyone deserves a decent gun". I said anyone is CAPABLE of a decent gun. Read. Please. Also, your bit about the forums is completely irrelevant. The street and bar forums become obsolete when RP does. Guns will never be obsolete.

In a forum based game, you expect RP to become obsolete and irrelevant, okay I will let you take this one seeing as how the discussion is not even about the forums - that's for another day.

As for your last point, the tools to become a hitter have always been there. A wack page and a target. Sure, with the introduction of "info skill", targeting the IAs has become difficult, but that's just another part of hitting. If you don't like people getting so many kills, take them out before they get that many. It's not always a code change that's needed to fix a problem.

Oh yes, the tools have always been there in the regards of a wack page and a target, but has RIAs, NPCs, and MIAs always been there? Huh? I didn't think so. These are the tools that I am referring to. And if you are making the assumption that I don't like people getting kills then you're far off the mark I have no issues with people getting kills but I'm against things being handed to be people on a plate, as the basis of my reply and the original thread is: Why should people with fat wallets get benefited? When you can answer that reply to me.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I have been playing .org/MR since 2002, and in all that time I rarely am a hitter. Most of my long time friends know when I'm a hitter, because each of the characters I create have specific roles. Some are hitters, some a prowackers, some are earners whilst others are information brokers or public speakers. Does this mean that other than the characters who are hitters the rest are useless? I don't think so, and I think that most CLs worth their salt would agree.

The issue is, as Gwarble and I have discussed to death on numerous occasions the cyclical nature of increase in this game. More Money, better guns, more bodyguards. Round and round and round it goes until you have people with 50 million in cash, 500+ kills and 300+ BGs. Next issue is how do you get new players into a game where after 24 hours they realise that unless they play it 24/7 they have no chance of ever accomplishing something of significance. So the next part of the Cycle is MIAs allowing those who can't play 16+ hours a day to get a gun, and at least feel like they have a chance.

Problem is, admins want the cash for CDs. Players buy CDs and some sod steals their MIA after a minute. Players get pissed off and stop buying CDs. Might not be a big issue to some, however it will become an issue when players get fracked off and leave the game. It was an issue until admins adjusted the ability of people to steal kills. How do I know this? Chris Vaughn had 17 kills stolen from him, all around 1 minute after they were spawned. I never once complained about it, but the loss of $14 roughly was a bit of a kick in nuts. Sure this was partially my fault, I sent a mobmail, or made a quick post, or bought drugs just as my target was turning, but hey, I figured I'd have more than 20 seconds after my target turned in which to shoot them.

Just my 2 cents worth.