An interesting topic especially as a member of my district is the opening act. Essentially our world has changed and I appreciate where you are coming from Achilles. As I like reading about the old days and how the mafia was. I like you have ancestors that grew up approaching leaders rather than the other way round. I must admit like bama I have been part of the problem rather than coming up with a solution.

Would I like to get back to some of the ethics that we use to run with? Of course I would. I would like to think it is possible if there is enough people behind the idea that we can try and implement it.

I think your idea is a good one ChristianoRonaldo but rather than rely on the Gods to implement change surely us as leaders should be able to get together and work on this?

Perhaps you could spearhead it, Spunky, in the Godfather Council? That would be a splendid legacy.

As much as I would like to say this could be part of my legacy I think that has to lie with Achilles for bringing up the topic and @CristanoRonaldo for bringing a potential solution to the table. I can assure you though it will be discussed at the next meeting.

the problem with just leaving it to the leaders rather than the gods in my opinion i think it would create somewhat of an imbalance amongst us say for example several crew leaders implement it and others continue whoring members sheer numbers alone would make it hard for anyone backing this up, it would seem to be whoever is not doing it would "lose out" does that make sense?

Whereas if the gods step in it would be mandatory regardless 

The leaders should force those who would continue whoring to stop whoring and find other means or recruiting then, Sentinel.

yeah morgoth that would be a start the only thing i can think of though is what if it leads to crews being removed from people that would then lead to more people arriving on our shores which in turn could lead to the competitive nature of crews wanting new blood churning out more whores as such.

whoever i do believe like yourself crew leaders do need to impose themselves on this with maybe a little help from the gods, it does need to stop

I think that we need to establish guidelines on what is considered whoring and what is not. I think that you should only reach out to a potential associate when he has done ALL of your jobs. This shows he is dedicated and interested. After that you can contact, not before. Why would a leader contact some chump who arrived with a boatload of other immigrants. You don't know him, his goals, if he sticks around or is just wandering aimlessy. If he does the jobs, you know that he looks for employment. Then you can contact.

It shouldn't be hard to have crews keep to this simply guideline, I think.

yeah i agree dialogue should only become available after the whole section of jobs is complete unless such new blood contacts the established crewleader or sponsor first 

would you also agree the given tutorial should be mandatory if you are arriving here for the first time? and if your bloodline does make their way back here it can then be scrapped? that way giving the knowledge to survive here would also help retain and familiarize these streets to any prospering mobster 

When my ancestors arrived in this world of ours, they preffered to find out how business works by themselves, or ask others, instead of relying on the initial help offered by this ''tutorial''.

yes in all honesty i was very much the same although some people may not use their initiative as well as the likes of you or me, which leads to the mentality of wanting to be seeked out rather than to approach others

I am absolutely ecstatic that leaders are taking this issue seriously and have it on their agenda for their next meeting. I think it goes to show that we DO partake in organised crime and that we mould this world as we see fit. Not bending over backwards for those not yet a member of this thing of ours.

Hopefully this proves to people (and I will make this clear. I am not claiming I have single handily caused any sort of change. But I feel like I have participated in it's discussion and as such feel quite warm inside) that you don't need to be a Godfather to affect changes on this world and voicing your opinion on a subject can bring about changes for the better. Not just be accused of whining and bitching.

Honestly. To all those leaders who have been onto this street corner. Bra-fucking-vo. You don't have to bend over to the masses but adapting to their hopes can only bring about good things.

While the leaders are taking this seriously, remember that it is YOU who decide who has the ability to recruit. Train your recruiters and don't turn them loose to recruit until they show that they are able to properly recruit. As for the inept Hands that member whore tell them not to recruit at all if they can't do it properly. As for leaders member whoring, shame on you, you shouldn't be leaders. Leading by being a bad example is not acceptable.

Achilles, any time you want to conduct an exercise to prove or disprove something I'm more than happy to help. People you know know how to find me. :)

For the record, I was shooting for a 13 year old, not a 12 year old :)

Peace Out

Zimmer

"Considering that there is now a new change of power and the amount of people that actually enjoyed hearing about this topic, I would be very interested to see this come back. I myself am very curious as to how those that are homeless are being contacted and met, as for me I know that standards on recruiting had slipped quite a fair bit, and as there are currently no Godfather rules that are in place from that I am aware of, those without a crew can be contacted however they want... Which I still think needs to be looked upon.

I am sure others are aware there are no Godfather rules, so I wonder how they are contacting the crew less with that in mind?"

Until a change of rules are announced, I'd imagine most would apply a far more logical assumption that the existing Godfather rules are still in place and proceed under that assumption.

The reality is it doesn't matter, it all comes down to the leader rules and what they expect and demand of their members. I'd again expect, even if no Godfather rules had ever existed, that a decent leader would expect far more than the bare minimum from their families. If they don't, they were a poor choice of leader to begin with. 

When my bloodline first returned to these shores, people attempted to whore them. When reports were made of these attempts to those in power over that person, what were the consequences? The person in question was promoted to be right hand man of the family he represented that night. To suggest anything has "slipped" is farcical and incorrect. Yes whoring happens, just as it used to happen. At the moment at least people are being reprimanded for it. I know first hand that's happening as I'm a cranky bastard happily doing it first hand, so I'd suggest things are dramatically improving from the days they've apparently 'slipped' from. 

Once new Godfather rules are put in place I'd hope and expect that far harsher and more severe punishments will be laid down. That remains to be seen, but I certainly hope it happens. The rules are incredibly easy to comply with, there's no excuse for failure to comply other than laziness.

WTRFG listens to Achilles yell to the masses the several examples he was able to provide of what they call "member whoring" though a term dubbed long ago from a different time. Thus has become common practice. WTRFG begins to speak.

Look, I understand the frustration here, but blaming the sponsors and leaders is not where the blame is to be. The blame does not really fall on anybody here in my opinion. 

Not so long ago before I was put as Freddy's RHM I was just an ordinary sponsor. Now as an ordinary sponsor, I am going say that recruiting is a royal pain in the ass and that's why I had gotten to a point where I would just say, why even try? As an ordinary sponsor, if you put effort in your recruitment you'd still be lucky to receive a response and I guess if you don't you get a mention in the streets talking about how you're "whorer."

"Back in the day" when you sponsored someone, that associates "taxes" went to the sponsor; not the CL. So one of the primary reasons to sponsor was stripped right from the hands of the sponsor. Well, what about the satisfaction of training a new person? Crews are smaller and more abundant than they were then. So most training done to new associates is done by the entire crew as a whole instead of just the sponsor. So really sponsoring someone now is just a pastime compared to what it used to mean. 

We can sit here and say it's the leader's fault. I tend to think it's just the way it is now. No amount of rules and regulations are going to change that until we stop and realize that the incentive to be a sponsor diminished a long time ago. The lack of any form of reply and in some cases respect from civilians no matter the effort involved from the sponsor kills the motivation to put forth effort. Then when you finally give up and try to start off with a simple "how's it going? what are your plans? etc." You're now shunned by everyone else. 

Simply put people. We have gotten to a point where being a sponsor is no longer worth it. And it's sad to say the least. 

Give up?

I'll borrow a line from Teddy Roosevelt here "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well." I share Mr. Roosevelt's sentiment.

You think that because you aren't benefiting financially from your associates that they're not worth your time to recruit in the first place? Endless possibilities can come from recruiting, from gaining a new friend to bolstering your stable of hit men. Everyone started out brand new around here at some point and I'd wager that most still maintain some loyalty to those who showed them the way. I've always found great satisfaction in recruiting someone fresh off the boat and helping them become a respectable, productive member of our society. Sure, recruiting can be hard for some, myself included, but you don't ever give up. Grind it out, man. Get back on the horse.

 I myself am very curious as to how those that are homeless are being contacted and met, as for me I know that standards on recruiting had slipped quite a fair bit, and as there are currently no Godfather rules that are in place from that I am aware of, those without a crew can be contacted however they want - TadePimmel

As a RHM, maybe you can offer some insight into just how the recruiting is currently being conducted. I assume you have some kind of knowledge on how your sponsors approach crew less mobsters? Do your sponsors approach their members however they want? I suspect not. Thankfully we have several leaders around that would be considered an old skool breed of mafiosi, with more traditional ideals in mind. The family lines of Tetley, Whatsername, HubertCapone, Barry, Curtis, Aliens, Kelly_Kapowski and more have been around a very long time and I would be surprised if they were to allow member whoring.

I assume when you say the standards had slipped that you mean prior to this current set of Godfathers? The rules that were in place prior to the regime change would be the standards that I imagine most crew leaders abide by. However, I'm sure there are still people who whore members, although I haven't been keeping my eye out for that type of thing for a while. Sadly the previous regime allowed the standards to slip quite a long way, including that of their auths, leading to this type of behaviour to become common practice until I prompted action with this speech. I'm not attempting to take credit for the change in rules, I am glad that something was introduced at the time though.

Look, I understand the frustration here, but blaming the sponsors and leaders is not where the blame is to be. - WhereTheRedFernGrows

Yes it is. Who else can be to blame other than those with the responsibility to whore and those giving out the responsibility?

Now as an ordinary sponsor, I am going say that recruiting is a royal pain in the ass and that's why I had gotten to a point where I would just say, why even try? As an ordinary sponsor, if you put effort in your recruitment you'd still be lucky to receive a response and I guess if you don't you get a mention in the streets talking about how you're "whorer."

Of course, if you offer little more than starting up a conversation with "want an invite m8?" Then that is whoring. As an ordinary sponsor, you get out of it what you put in.

1 - Maybe your recruitment methods weren't very good. Although hopefully they are better than your bosses previous attempts.

2 -  If you're willing to give up so easily then I can see why you struggled with recruiting.

3 - You can come across some great mobsters by putting in that extra bit of effort.

There's more to being a sponsor than just earning yourself money. As a Made guy, you want people working under you to help you out with those organised crimes that you plan. It also helps the family grow and become stronger and ultimately, isn't that the whole idea of recruiting anyway? It's not for self gain as you sadly seem to think.

I find it amazing that people such as yourself has to bring up the past so often to try and make yourself look good in front of others here.

Sad really

Especially when I was just being friendly, and you were being the pompous ass that thinks he is better than anyone else here.

For your information recruiting takes on many forms here and some of us are not as full as hot air such as yourself.

Many people here prefer not to read through 40 lines of bullshit just because you think you are worth listening to.