I am actually one of those people who doesn't like to read; but if they are so disinterested in reading what the gods offer them, you think they'd be more interested in unsolicited advice from fellow mobsters? I fear that any argument we make in favor of the effectiveness of recruiting could also be made for the effectiveness of the tools the gods have granted newcomers.

I would be in favor of a policy where sponsors from a crew can approach an individual after they've completed jobs for that crew. I think anyone who chooses to forego the jobs board has the capacity to contact a leader on their own, and sponsors now have a clear point where they are allowed to approach a newcomer. Is that a fair policy?

Maybe if there wasn't a million crews, things wouldn't be so competitive?

Many familys are made of people that have long since fallen asleep, just laying around the HQs in a coma. The problems we have in this life are ones we can solve on our own, but no-one ever does because they don't want to fall behind the pack. They sacrifice their own desires to see things run properly simply because they don't want to risk being left behind.

I'm not criticizing the leadership by stating this, I've had plenty of members of my bloodline that are as much a part of that problem as the current leadership are, but it's still a fact we can't avoid. The leaders are for the most part to blame as they are the ones that have the power to change it all for the better - but to have them all in agreement on such standards is extremely difficult and so all those that want change are still left without it as they won't risk what they already have.

But with that being said there are really new members that haven't had a past and wouldn't know the first thing of how to join a family so i think a mail to them isn't wrong at all..

Thats exactly what the job board is for. The board is very underused in my opinion.

Aye it is and i totally agree with you AlabamaWorley it should be used more but it isn't..

There is a reason that and i will explain before we didn't have the 15 minute interval period before seeing new comers to these shores. So they would get mobmailed as soon as they were seen. The problem now is the sponsors are sending mails to these people and they are not replying so the 15 minute interval doesn't even come into affect. So then it becomes the same problem as it was before hand.

I have a solution to this problem we are currently having how about new members of this world of our not being able to be seen until they turn Gangster and then maybe that will solve the issue we have today.

After listening to the discussion, he decides to join in.

"There is also an engineering aspect in play here that Alabama touched on:"

Maybe if there wasn't a million crews, things wouldn't be so competitive?

"I am from Brendan's era and also remember having to write a carefully considered application to a family in the hopes that someone might reply and give me an interview. That was a different time but I agree that a lot could be gained from re-installing such values. However to do that we would have to accept that, in part, the old scenario was created by design.  

We had just a few families per city and each family was huge, over 100 members in many cases. This meant that most families didn't need more members to keep them afloat and if you wanted to get in one you had to put the work in. It forced a young mobster to think and work from day one, the knock on effects in terms of social participation and general creative productivity in the community were undeniable. As much as I miss those days and the hard working mobsters that kind of start in life produced, I don't think we will see a return of such traditions as long as there are six hundred families around with hundreds of vacant spaces. 

Any inactive slacker can sit quietly behind a mute moron of a leader who won't say a word about it until they shoot them out of boredom and the whole shit-ball world rolls on. I think if you want significant change then you have to entertain the idea of doing some social engineering."

https://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/473356

if everyone would like to add comment i have now put it in game suggestions...

It's a shame that leaders such as Sebasian see no real problem with this. Some of these guys hadn't done a job for those who were approaching them. That's where I disagree. I'm aware that if you want to keep up with the current families then sometimes contacting the those doing jobs for you is the way to go. 

Freddy who happens to be a LHM also seems to have no problem with it and it's worrying to see since these are the people who are "helping out" the current batch of new faces and they can't even make sense out here in the street.

Nice to see you afghanmongo m8. Yes you're quite right, I have real problems filling my crew as 28 members is clearly a sign that I am struggling to get people on board the HMS Tyrant over here. Outting those that are approaching people in this way may allow people to rethink their strategies instead of shamelessly whoring like this. It's lazy and just shit tbh.

I think those with older lineages definitely have more morals around this sort of behaviour. I can however understand approaching someone who has completed a few jobs for you, the Gods encourage it and it's something which if done appropriately can be a great way to get the help these newer faces need. Although at the same time I still feel the new mobsters arriving at our shores are provided with enough information to add 2 and 2 and realise they need to get in touch with someone with a bold suit.

Kudos to CRon for coming forward and holding up his hands and he's completely correct. It's shit it's got to this point and tying in with what Alabama said, the whoring seems to be a result of the high demand of workers/mobsters because of the insane amount of families there are around right now. 

taylor that could be an option, might be worth a mention over in Suggestions Avenue for the people to discuss it.

I suspect he means sending unsolicited or barely disguised invites is lazy, which it is. 

So sitting back and waiting for them to come to you isn't lazy...but actively approaching them is...Ok.

walks away.

Noticing Stax has walked away, Barry pens him a quick note and reads it aloud for everyone prior to sending it.

Sending someone an unsolicited or barely disguised invite is lazy. You haven't bothered to lay any sort of foundation as to why that individual should join you, nor have you imparted any sort of beneficial information to them. All you've done is invite them to join you so that it benefits you, that is lazy and circumvents several (to me, at least) key components of the process.

And, I didn't say sitting back and waiting for them to come to you wasn't lazy, as in some cases it is. However, in others, they have reasons besides lethargy as to why that is the case. Some people have already done all the necessary work to ensure people know of them, their organisation and their standing in our world. That doesn't happen over night; it is in fact often the culmination of many weeks and months of graft, networking and commitment. That isn't lazy. It is a sign of a good leader.

With that, he dispatches one of his lads to see the message to Savannah.

Achilles I think we have long traveled the idea of having the gods manifest our own interests in the fabric of our world; and I don't want that for us. This is a change that we can and should make as members of the mafia. We cannot simply turn to the gods when the leaders of this world aren't capable of solving problems. We need to make touch decisions here, not leave them for the gods.

Stax The vices in member whoring have very much to do with laziness. I think the context of Achilles's comment was that those who simply throw out blanket flyers or handouts to everyone who shows up on our shores is incredibly lazy. You could call this "casting a wide net," because these people are fishing for members even when they (the potential members) aren't aware of or interested in the invite. This practice is lazy. The less lazy version would be to wait until someone has completed a job, approach them as a fucking human being and personalize your messages with them. I find it saddening that civilians and petty thieves are badgered with the same messages over and over and over. It's no wonder so many of them are disinterested in staying! 

I think this is an issue that the Godfather Council should rule on. After all, this is essentially the purpose of the GFC, correct?

Should i really care that i'm getting scrutinized for talking to someone?

Well besides the fact that i should be telling you to shove it?

not really, have i sent mails to thugs like that? yes

 has it gotten me a member? yes

Have i role played to new thugs? Yes

Has that worked? yes

did i go out of my way to try to recruit the idiot? no

as i said i was talking, he'd been out here on the streets so i wanted to get some insight. could i come right out and ask him? probably not not that tactful even if you. even you must agree with that.

onto to the other point have i spoken to other thugs in the past with out the intention of  recruiting them? yes

so that if they were recruited later i'd have some kind of previous knowledge about them. I don't know how you think it works over there Achilles but i'd like to know i'm getting. I try to get to know all my members and not after they attain the rank of Wise Guy or Made Man either. 

though i wouldn't be surprised if a Don like yourself would think it beneath him to do such things.

Being to forward with newbies i guess may work on some, however i believe that the other 90% will just be scared off.

It all comes down what a family is looking for, Quantity or Quality.

I would like to think that 1 Quality member that works hard is much better than that of 10 players who only play for an hour max.

in short cram it

Sounds about right. I hope this doesn't mean I'm crossed off the list of upper structure members that you message every week though. That would be unfortunate.

No a petty dispute is no reason to snub someone the honor of getting to know me. who knows we might actually get along all differences in opinion aside i quite enjoy your coming to the streets.

Harbinger was perplexed, he was in the midst of doing the system posted in the daily newspaper, "For the years 1925 through 1935, the annual percent (y) of US households that used a wall or floor furnace to heat their houses is given by the equation (y=-0.04x+5.1) where x is the number of years after 1925. For the same period, the annual percent (y) of US households that used fireplaces or wood stoves to heat their houses is given by y = 0.31x + 5.3 where x is the number of years after 1925." Harbinger was required as stipulated by the paper to "Use the substitution method to solve the system, while rounding your answer to the nearest whole number, be able to explain the meaning of the answer and to sketch a graph of the system and write a sentence describing the use of wall furnaces or fireplaces or wood stoves for heating homes between 1925 and 1935."

Looking up from the paper, with his pen in hand. He saw his good friend Achilles asking for someone to help decipher the verbal output of the young gentleman beside him. Always having time to help a friend in need, Harbinger sets aside his work to give his best attempt.

"Ah, Achilles, my good friend! I will do my best to help you understand what this man has said. "Should I care that I am being criticized for talking to people? Besides the fact that I care enough about your critiques that I'm telling you to shove it up your ass! No, of course I shouldn't care that I care enough about your complaints to retort. Now, have I communicated to thugs in the matter that you have described? Yes, I have, my friend of the nimble feet and huge pee pee! I've also emphasized the role I have in this line of business we are presently engaged in. Using these methods have been beneficial to my goals! Now have I gone out of my way to talk to hire these idiots (Harbinger mentions as a side note to his friend Achilles that the man standing next to him is referring to the thugs he's talked to as idiots) into my organization? Of course not my good sir! Now, as I was saying I was just talking to the young individual, as he was out on the streets and I wanted to get some insight as to what goes on in that noggin of his. Could I have just outright asked him "Why do you think and act the way you do?" Probably not, as it would not have been very polite, even you should be able to empathize with that! Now, I would also like to ask the rhetorical question, "Have I spoken to other thugs in the past without the intention to hire them as employees?" Yes I have! I did this because if they found work elsewhere I would have known something about them. Now, Achilles, I don't know how you think it works over there, in that city where you've manage an outfit of your own under that lovable and cheerful Godfather Cantillon, but I'd like you to know what I am trying to explain here. I try to get to know all of my employees and not just after they've been working for me after an extended period of time either. Though, heh heh, I wouldn't be surprised if someone like you would think it beneath himself to get to do such things like getting to know people who work for you." Wow, that took a bit longer than I thought, Achilles. I hope I helped you out! I'm just going to go back and work on trying to solve these equations now."

Harbinger sits back down on the bench, grabs the newspaper and starts writing numbers and letters down. "Hmm, now if I say if it's one year after 1925, I would multiply negative zero point three one to one, then add five point three..."

Curtis laughs as Harbinger speaks. He too was very interested in household boiler efficiency having just spent a small fortune having one replaced. He smiled at Harbinger and made a mental note to get more information from him later. Remembering what the misguided man from Detroit had said he remembered to make his point.

"Sebasian, I think the point was that you wouldn't usually expect to see an esteemed Don and leader of a mafia family running around the docks asking every thug and petty thief to please join their family. Such a pitiful act would be beneath them. 

Normally their reputation in the criminal community would be established and people wanting to enter a life of crime would hear about them as their hard work and long line of prominent criminal exploits and success would be known throughout the land. The young hood would then seek out a member of their family and attempt to join up. Attraction rather than degrading shameless begging. You see?"

Taking a quip nip of his absinthe stained flask, he makes his final point.

"As for getting to know people... Once the candidate was working for the family, then the leader would take time to get to know them. As time went on the leader would become more certain of a person until eventually they elected to either kill them for various shortcomings or take them into the fold and make them a member."