I think the saying goes "He with the biggest stick wins".

Looks like that held true here.

This saying also holds true to my personal life.

SammyGarcini

I am in CH Gwarble is PH. I am my own boss. It wouldnt be up to Gwarble to auth a shot.

As the son of the gangster that left Hickey (thank god I did) for Squire, I believe I can answer a lot of questions. This is what happened:

I made the foolish decision to decide to work for Hickey. Less than a few hours in, I realized this was a leader than demanded all and gave nothing in return. Like SmilingAssassin says, a very trigger happy one to say the least. Not very wise when you operate independently with no strong ties.

At the same time, Squire, a man's whose bloodline I was very familiar with and respected was authorized. So I left - I was a gangster and, well, if Hickey hunted me down... so what? I was a gangster.

Earlier today, Hickey wakes up from his palace slumber and approaches me with a "what do you think your doin leaving my family" - a verbatim sentence that could make every English teacher cringe. I told him nothing but the truth - that I was an associate who didn't even sign his family rules and if he really wanted to do something about it, to talk to my leader or shoot me himself.

Soon after, Squire approaches me and asks me what happened. Before I could give him a good explanation - boom - he turned red. How very disappointing. I can first-handedly say that Hickey did NOT give Squire time at all - in fact, not long after he was online, he was dead. Now is this how we deal with things? So quickly?

Moments later, TheDean shoots me with a whisper along the lines of "I'm not risking my ass for you" which, I'll admit, made me chuckle.

I think the bigger question here is not so much whether what Squire did was wrong, but rather - Why would TheDean, a Godfather of a city of 7 allied crews, yield to Hickey, a self-invested loner?

If anything, this situation had revealed to us the true insecurity of TheDean. We all knew that he wasn't the most "loyal" guy ever, but this guy is in his own state of paranoia.

New York was once a great city - Deimne, Gaius, PhelixTheSphinx, just to name a few.

Which brings me to my last question (which is aimed at associates in New York). Why did you elect to join New York if the only thing remaining in that city is a bunch of backstabbing, opportunistic, cowards?

How can you point fingers at my father - a gangster that left Hickey for Squire - as disloyal when your mere existence (and this is to you New York) is the epitome of betrayal incarnate?

Pot, meet kettle.

I remember a time where asking for an invite to a crew and then joining another crew would be disrespect enough to land you in the obituaries. Now you have gangsters joining crews and then leaving? Not in this line of work. It can't happen. It can't be allowed to happen. It should be met with death every time. It's hard to believe a crew leader would feel any other way but, if they do, then they deserve whatever response they get in my opinion.

think the saying goes "He with the biggest stick wins".

Looks like that held true here.

This saying also holds true to my personal life.

Hickey, your sex life is of no concern of ours :P

"Hickey, I know this, but i have come to believe that Gwarble is too in charge of Chicago, as TheDean is in charge of New Orleans. I may be wrong, feel free to correct me."

"Now, BearHugs, firstly, thanks for clearing as little as possible up. You cannot say anything about being disloyal as a mere generation ago, your family was jumping between families like nobody's business. Now, I agree totally with Hickey in the sense that this gangster needed to be shot, buying out of someone's family is an unforgiveable action. But I do not agree with the fact that Squire had to die as well. Now, if what BearHugs said is true, that Squire was not given much time, then that is despicable."

"On a seperate note, TheDean shot your father because he deserved to be shot. He wasn't 'yieding' to Hickey, he was doing what was right, which was putting your father six feet under. And I take it you were not present for the speach that TheDean made shortly after he did what he did with regards to Deimne. I had no problem with what he did, and I wouldn't have even if I wasn't a part of New York. if you don't like what was done, why on earth would you want to join a family, in a city that is controlled by that same person, TheDean?"

"All in all, your father was an idiot, you sound very much like a idiot, destined for the same place your father is now."

BearHugs, I apologize, I missed the last few parts of your speech, I blame being a little bit tipsy, but anyway, doesn't matter.

To sit there and claim TheDean to be a not so loyal guy is beyond me, I mean, my god, this guy as been a true friend for a very long time, I worked along side his father MickeyRourke for a while who again, was by far the most loyal friend I have ever come across.
He maybe my boss, he maybe the Godfather of the city of New York, but to me, I don't see any of that, to me he is a friend, not only to me, but to many, we love him for his friendship, love, loyalty and kindness.

He makes one hell of a friend and one great leader.

Moments later, TheDean shoots me with a whisper along the lines of "I'm not risking my ass for you" which, I'll admit, made me chuckle.

Now I seriously doubt putting words in my mouth would get you very far, especially after your poor attempt here. It actually made me chuckle. Seems the kiddies are still crying. I have killed a lot of your mums and daddies, but are we really going to get into this again? I don't feel bad. I would shoot your mum in her face again if I could.

Now why don't you just follow that old saying "Children should be seen and not heard". I have a dunce corner reserved just for you in any city of your liking, you can bring your friends too.

It's very annoying when someone dies, their little children hit the streets and make very poor attempts at making conversation.

BearHugs,
I liked your beginning part of your speech, but after reading the second part, to me, you are just a little shit who is the cause of a friend getting killed.
You don't know TheDean, your father obviously had no respect for Squire, otherwise he wouldn't had made such a stupid move and just killed himself and let you take the lead in your new family.

Sitting here now bitching about the New York Godfather, my..our friend ..you have no hope in surviving in this world as you are. Lets give you a new responsibility, I'll make you responsible for my death once I kill you under 48hrs old.

BearHugs yawns

I'm not shocked that the only rebuttal given to me by TheDean consists of calling me a child, and in no way addresses the points I've made towards him. Great response there, sir! I almost cried at how eloquently written it was. Truly the rhetoric of a Godfather, I must say.

I'll wait until you decide to refute my claims.

BearHugs pulls out a telegraph he received not too long ago.

"

To: BearHugs
From: TheSmilingAssassin
Sent: Aug 02, '10 17:33
Subject:

Nice reply to Hickey's thread, I hope it brings light to the true horrors of what he leads."

I believe someone's mouth isn't where their heart is.

What did you want Mr BearHugs? a hug?
Godfathers of our world have better things to do then to sit around and argue with little kids.

Oh shit! did I just call you a kid? - Wait, I'm not a Godfather, it's allowed!

Do any of you honestly believe that leaders would stand by and let someone pop off shots? Do you think I would have stood by letting Hickey shoot Squire? No, but guess what, Squire did nothing to help his cause.

Squire invited a member that left Hickey's crew. Hickey confronted Squire asking for it to be dealt with, the response Hickey received what was nothing short of a slap in the face from Squire.

Hickey did what was right and I wouldn't say that if I didn't believe it. Squire was a fellow leader of New Orleans. It's obviously a sad thing to see him go, but from what I've been told by both parties just happens to justify the action taken by Hickey.

What Ethande or whatever the no name mafioso goes by did is completely disrespectful as well. He left Hickey without any sort of permission from Hickey. To stand up for Squire or the no name mafioso is just arrogant.

Wrong decsions were made by both Squire and Ethande. It cost them their lives and that's that. If anything is to be learned from this it is to watch the bridges you burn because you may have to cross them again.

Mr BearHugs,
Like I stated in one of my replies to you which you have failed to show, I stated that I did not listen to all of your speech, but once I finished listening, I made it clear that although I agreed (at that point, not now that I have spoken to someone else), but I wasn't going to tolerate minors or anyone else bitching about our Godfather.

It just goes to show how keen you are to cause trouble, nice try, but try harder.

It seems TheDean truly has no way of refuting my accusations. I will interpret his silence as an accepted withdrawal - like that of an old turtle back into its hollow shell. Quite passive for a Godfather, I must say.

You can continue to spew me the old, "Oh he's a Godfather, he's too busy to respond to little shits like you" but he clearly disproved that by responding to me in the first place. He sure had enough time to give me that childish (no pun intended) rebuttal earlier; it's obvious he's speechless at this point.

At least Gwarble had witty ways of defending himself.

Unlike "OhhCrapp," I didn't resort to cursing at the masses (as we all know, a hostile populace is not a listening populace). Instead, I told you my story and brought up some interesting points.

The fact that many of you have sent me telegraphs of secret agreement shows that I'm not alone - I apologize for not responding to you all. I don't blame most of you for not speaking up - that's what I'm here for.

My job here is done. Rest easy, Deany, you little old turtle.

You see, turtles may live a long life, but even their time comes. You may have those currently with you kissing your toes, but a silent army is growing; an army of mutual thought is stronger than anything I could ever spew on these streets.

When your time comes, what will they say at your funeral?

Bottom line is, Don Hickey felt that his Honor was worth more than the Squire's life so he killed him. Looks to me like all the proper channels and steps were taken prior to the hit, decisions were made, and what's done is done. That's the Mafia. I'm not even knocking Squire for feeling that he shouldn't have to bend at the knee for Hickey. After all This Thing of Ours is about power and who can and can't enforce orders. Unfortunately for Squire he seems to have grossly underestimated Don Hickey and miscalculated his own significance in This Thing of Ours. Simple as that really

Was Hickey right or wrong in all of this? Who gives a fuck? It's Cosa Nostra, crybabies.

To echo TheSmilingAssassin's original sentiments, Congrats Hickey

I must admit I was a little reserved about the way some of the leaders were coming into power (I believe you can see my whining responses in the Chicago speech by Gwarble).  And I withheld congratualting Hickey there because I had yet to see him act.  Well today he did and I am impressed.

Im not going to argue on the ethics of Hickey killing Squire and whether or not Hickey had a legitimate reason to kill him, or if he gave him enough time or what not.  Frankly thats a debate which I'm not that interested in and probably has many facts a lot of us are unaware of...  but one thing that stands out to me is that Hickey proved himself in my eyes today.  Now I know my eyes are that of a lowly earner, but I am still impressed.  Hickey stood up for his family, and his families rules and acted swiftly and firmly not only against the offending member, but also of the leader harboring the offender.

Hickey, I know I would not say this earlier, but I would like to congratulate you now.  Your indeed showing that you have the balls for yours position.

Oscar is right on this one.

Don Hickey is a reasonable man, at the end of the day an independant crew leader from Chicago went to battle with an independent Crew Leader from New Orleans.  Regardless of wether you would have handled the situation the same way or not is irrelevant.

Clearly Don Hickey had the right to take this action...and the ability to back it up.

A good deal of the gangster hoping is probably because many of these are sons of recent "great men" from our thing.  The world got turned upside down when Godfather Gwarble and Godfather SpaceMountain brought down Goliath.  Now some feel entitled.  It simply doesn't work that way; 

You get what you earn you reap what you sow; I'd be willing to be as reasonable as Hickey is if Squire wanted this gangster and had contacted Hickey BEFORE the gangster left and went rogue...something would have been worked out.

As it is, it turns into justified but bloodshed that could have been avoided if the receipients of the whacking had handled things just a bit differently . 

Less than a few hours in, I realized this was a leader than demanded all and gave nothing in return. Like SmilingAssassin says, a very trigger happy one to say the least. Not very wise when you operate independently with no strong ties.

A leader demanding things from inconsequential nobody Gangsters? Who would have thought it, in the mafia of all places. Sheesh. Next they'll be saying we should respect them or something. What next from these crazy cats in power. As for trigger happy, I don't see much evidence of that. I'd have shot Squire too. Lots of people have said likewise. Sounds more like the action of a measured mafioso than it does a blood lusting one. He is vindicated by the fact he sits in Chicago today, alive.

At the same time, Squire, a man's whose bloodline I was very familiar with and respected was authorized. So I left - I was a gangster and, well, if Hickey hunted me down... so what? I was a gangster.

Understood, you left to be with your friend because Chicago was all cold and harsh for the little bear. This new horrible boss was demanding all sorts, from you, Gangsta. You knew you were doing wrong, but were willing to risk being hunted down. After all, Don Hickey wouldn't dare touch your boss. The made man.

So far so good, you are displaying exemplary understandings of how to make friends and get ahead in cosa nostra. Honest.

Earlier today, Hickey wakes up from his palace slumber and approaches me with a "what do you think your doin leaving my family" - a verbatim sentence that could make every English teacher cringe. I told him nothing but the truth - that I was an associate who didn't even sign his family rules and if he really wanted to do something about it, to talk to my leader or shoot me himself.

This will be part of the reason you are failing to get anywhere. English teachers go to school, not the Chicago underworld. Silly billy. As for not signing his rules, so what? You asked for shelter, he gave it. You slapped him in the face by leaving and were obviously going to die. Turns out he did really want to do something about it though, good shout there.

Soon after, Squire approaches me and asks me what happened. Before I could give him a good explanation - boom - he turned red. How very disappointing. I can first-handedly say that Hickey did NOT give Squire time at all - in fact, not long after he was online, he was dead. Now is this how we deal with things? So quickly?

I think by now, we all know that this is nonsense. Squire did respond from what I can gather, but not in the way Hickey - or any reasonable mobster - would expect. Like you, Squire was a silly billy.

Moments later, TheDean shoots me with a whisper along the lines of "I'm not risking my ass for you" which, I'll admit, made me chuckle.

Why would he? A nobody, a gangster, a fool. Hardly worth the effort is it. You said it yourself, you were nothing but an associate. A bum that would be replaced within minutes by some fresh meat off the boat.

How can you point fingers at my father - a gangster that left Hickey for Squire - as disloyal when your mere existence (and this is to you New York) is the epitome of betrayal incarnate?

You need to focus. You were a nobody that did nothing. TheDean is a Godfather that overthrew a city and took control. Nothing else matters. He wins. You lose.

Pot, meet kettle.

Gangster, meet Godfather.

This seemed like a simple scenario all in all.  When a crew leader decides to give you protection and allow you to work for him, then you whine about said leader demanding to much of you not giving back Then you jump ship and join your "Friend of a CL"...Well let's just say you have a few things to learn still and you were given the quick and easy lesson of how not to go about things. 

To come out here and say that a death is unjustified in a world of criminals is like going into a bakery and complaining they have bread.  We all live and die by our actions and yours got you killed, even though you stated that you were expecting to die.  So why all the hub bub and whining that you did die?

Both deaths seem justified and well done to Hickey for showing that he will not tolerate disrespect of himself or his family.