You are so right Marie! The inactive Lucky and Dollface sure was a massive threat to you all. I do ask this though, if your goal is really to rebuild and progress as a community... Why was there un-sponsored people under wise guy being mowed down after the damage was already done? That is counter-productive to what you claim you want. 

Overwhelming evidence, yet none has been provided? Must we just take your word for it? The streets should have been filled with busy people all working towards a brighter tomorrow after such bloodshed. Instead, it is filled with bodies. Many of them shot in the back as they tried to flee and find a new home. 

Some would argue there was a bitter taste in the mouth of some people, considering most the sons and daughters from NY and LA went to LV. Fear of revenge one day causing an un-warranted and rash attack. 

Colt smiled when Godmother Marie finished her speech. One of those hadn't seen the day of light for a long time. It was very respectable and courageous decision.

Are you saying these leaders have no control over their soldiers, TommyOliver? That is quite a bold claim you are making. So lets go with the fact these leaders are incompetent at giving orders and protecting people? That is what you're saying?

Wow oh wow, I did not expect such an insult to current leaders from someone like you. Do they not punish disobedience either? 

You act as if you were blonde and new there boy.

Points and laughs at TommyOliver.

What does this even mean? 

Who_Let_The_Dogs_Out walks out onto the streets to listen to another redundant speech about about self proclamation. Duly notes shitting wherever paranoid dogs feel like taking a shit is the only status quo. 

It was Godfather Lucky who promoted peace and prosperity for all. That was the only evidence you had. You yourself as a new GF around here just publicly announced that each city head stood side-by-side to stabilize and provide an environment where all may be prosperous with hard work and diligence. Godfather Lucky and Don Dollface were no exception.

No point in asking for evidence that does not exist. Instead, I'll ask you did you miss your last sychiatric appointment? You appear to be unstable and that is not becoming of a GF

RIP

TommyOliver, if your Cl don't kill, I would ask why.

N0b0dy stood in the back with a bottle of rum in his one hand, a cigarette in the other. He was in the mood for some tequila, as the air was already salty...

Looking at Mistakes he replies

I get that your in "that place" right now and it's OK to feel angry and vent. What you claim as reasons though are not actually the truth. As stated by Marie_Lucania, this was in the best interest of the future of this country. Fear did not drive this thing of yesterday. Working towards change and a brighter future for all, was. Even though you might not see it that way. Did we feel good about it? No. did we party after? Most definitely not. Was it necessary to ensure a more stable foundation to build upon? Yes, unfortunately...

N0b0dy looks around to find  Who_Let_The_Dogs_Out. As he seems to have gone missing, he refrains from addressing his points...

N0b0dy nods at Marie_Lucania as he takes a step back. 

Was it necessary to ensure a more stable foundation to build upon? Yes, unfortunately...

It would be nice to hear why this was necessary, since its now two respective cities that seem certain of this fact.

Whats done is done, Vegas is dead, but at least have the conviction of your reasons to state what they are, not hide behind "reasons" without stating them. If someone really feels it necessary, I'm sure they have loads of evidence. On the contrary, if they did it just because they could and because they wanted to, its likely they'll just avoid answering the question and hope it all blows over.. Either way, it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, its not going to change the past - but it might help shape the supposed peace and prosperity that is being talked about. 

TomKirkman, with all respect for the fallen and any loss you have suffered, I don't believe any amount of revelations or disclosures will ever satisfy the desire for answers. Such is the way of this life and the nature of the people in it. 'He said, she said' is never going to provide concrete closure for anyone. 

What it does provide however is the opportunity to engage our instincts, our faith in the reliability of a source and majority opinion. Whatever drove these actions, the country came together to execute it. At some point someone had to say, 'Look, we need to talk about Vegas.' to allow a majority opinion to form. 

Trust was placed in the reasons and in each of the other family heads who were approached. As soon as you disclose these sorts of thoughts with another person, you are at the mercy of their discretion and acceptance of your reasons. In this case, the evidence, instincts and trust all aligned and resulted in the fall of a city. 

Sadly, not everyone is not always guilty. But not everyone is innocent. Where those people placed their trust or the way they interacted overall influenced this outcome. 

Sadly, not everyone is not always guilty. But not everyone is innocent. Where those people placed their trust or the way they interacted overall influenced this outcome. 

Couldn't agree with you more there, Jack.

The guilt or innocence of the fallen aren't really whats in question, its the decision making. For someone to claim there was reasons for them to act, I feel those reasons should be shared. Does that mean they will be shared? Probably not. But it would be remiss of me not to state my own personal preference to those involved in the hope that they may agree, rather than sit silently and let any thoughts build within and not be spoken.

I have no ill will towards those that participated in the removal of Vegas, TomKirkman didn't live in Vegas, so its of no consequence to myself. What is important to me however is that a person approaching the streets speaking of prosperity and peace can explain why they participated in the destruction of a city that was for all intents and purposes both peaceful and actively working towards the same goals they speak of. Seems to contradict the message they are given, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, there were those in their city who didn’t share this vision of peace and prosperity, and seemed to be more interested in bringing back the status quo that led to the devastating war that we have now been tasked to rebuild from; they simply were not able to transition themselves to this new age.

@Marie_Luciana, you mention that one of the reasons for the removal of Vegas was because they brought back some of the status quo that led to the previous war, however I am not right in thinking that the bloodline of TM-Scarface and your very own crew leader Dub were also auths directly before the devastating war? That seems highly hypocritical to me. 

Also, it hasn't gone unnoticed that certain Project Mayhem members who were on a certain side of the fence during last month's war were safe listed and given the opportunity to find new homes. This also makes me question certain aspects of your reasoning. 

It seemed, according to the overwhelming evidence that was obtained from multiple sources, that these forces growing in Las Vegas had the apparent desire to reverse the progress that we have collectively made over the past several weeks. This simply could not be allowed to happen.

You just did that yourself, I'm sure we will see that in due course. 

Unfortunately, in the end, it came down to the matter of whether they were consciously and actively promoting this group, or whether they were simply unaware to what was occurring in their city. 

Again you mention Vegas was removed because of the group of people it housed, yet you allowed some of them to be safe listed? 

Regarding your first point, Ellie, two former CLs can have a similar vision of peace and prosperity that all of our cities share now and still have been auths prior to the last war. I don't know why you think that because some people died in that last conflict they automatically cannot share a common vision with those in charge now? It's certainly not black and white like you're suggesting. And two CLs out of X amount cannot uphold a status quo as they're automatically in the minority... 

And that's all I have to say about that. I tend to stay away from these sorts of things because logic gets covered by emotions, however when my name gets mentioned in an attempt to make such an illogical point, I had to say something. You can't reason with people who are emotional and are intent on being upset no matter the explanations. 

"It's an unenviable spot that Godmother Marie is in.  Often we expect leaders to justify their actions, but it's a very rare occasion when everyone supports the leader's way of thinking.  Perhaps its that we all think we could do better?  Maybe we think no one will throw stones at us when it's we who are making the tough calls?"
 

"If Godmother Marie has intelligence against the dead, and she shares it, she shows to all the world that she's the sort of person who is transparent.  Now, that MIGHT make her actions more palatable (though chances are good they'd examine the evidence and tell everything she says is bullshit whether it is or not) but probably not."
 

"On the other hand it CERTAINLY would show that she's the sort of person who would sell informants up the river in an attempt to spare herself castigation in the streets.  And, of course, those informants would never be useful again and likely new ones would NOT volunteer to replace the old ones."
 

"I'm sure she knows that there's a chance that the intelligence she's been given could have been forged.  My bloodline has seen a few instances of that in the short time we've been on these shores.  That's the nature of our business.  He'll that's the larger part of leadership, having to take what's put before you, sort out what you think is true and needs acting upon, and what might not be."
 

"In this thing of ours, you're damned if you do or don't.  If you act on things too rashly, no one in the streets likes you because you're seen as bloodthirsty.  Don't act and your enemies will swoop down upon you.  Then it's you in the obits and it's them who will be giving a vaguely stated reasons why you and your family needed to do for the good of all."
 

"If you find yourself nodding with some of the words spoken here about who the Godmother had killed or spared; if you find yourself wondering if she needs to pay for those actions, congratulations!  You are like so many others who've heard similar speeches by Godfathers in the past.  No one comes to power universally loved in this thing of ours - nor universally hated regardless of their words or actions."
 

"In my opinion, the real difference between Godfathers isn't whether or not they kill or allow the killing of 'innocent' people (psst: they all do)it's the level of communication they have afterwards.  Did they TRY to justify their actions in the streets or did they say 'fuck those guys, no matter what I say they're just going to bitch at me anyway.'  
 

"My bloodline has seen both kinds of leaders and I can tell you which they preferred, if you like.  At least when my family knew they were listening to horseshit... they knew that the Godfathers in question were concerned enough with the men under them (and their opinions) to try and win their favor.  Some guys could care less and did whatever the hell they wanted without a thought to anyone else.  Did that make them good people?  No.  I don't think there is a 'good' Godfather... just ones who do the best they can, however they define that."
 

"A final note.  None of us is innocent folks.  Even if your ancestors have never made the call to declare war or direct people's actions in them... there's a good chance your ancestors pulled their triggers on the orders of some shady folks who just happened to outrank them.  Maybe Godmother Marie has gotten some bad information AND maybe she's trusting all the wrong people (and will die regretting that...) but if that's true, then her daughters will learn from her mistakes.  Just as you've learned from the mistakes of your ancestors, and ideally have grown."
 

"Rest assured, when this Godmother's time is done (because we all die eventually), we'll all have another despot to be throwing stones at (whether they deserve that title or not) here in the streets.  Who knows, maybe it will be you... or your children?  I try to remember that when speaking in the streets.  You know, that bit from the Bible about treating others as you'd like to be treated?  It's not bad advice."  

Wow Isabella. It's impressive that someone can use so many words, yet still offer absolutely nothing of any worth to the actual discussion! Bravo! Everything was If Or I'm sure. So to be clear, you have zero insight into what happened, why it happened, or what discussions were taken place or anything related to the evidence provided that could make such a decision justified? Awesome.

Ciao Shae-,

I'm curious to know exactly what areas of Isabella's address you disagree with. 

Enough if's and maybe's cover every situation, and in the event you never get the answers you're looking for, the if's and maybe's are all you've got.