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Wars not war anymore Started by: Vincent-Valentine on Mar 01, '19 21:48

I really dislike the idea of changing game mechanics in regards to war.  War really is one of the freest expressions we have on MR and I don't think that should change.  People relying on game mechanics to save them and expecting changes to represent that are looking at this game the wrong way in my opinion.

War has always been like this.  The better organized and prepared side wins the war.  Sometimes it's a slug fest, sometimes it isn't.  The reason you see more proper "takedowns" instead of "true wars" isn't because any of the mechanics changed, the players did.  The math is well understood by those who conduct wars.  The people that conduct the wars have practiced their craft and have turned it into an efficient machine.  I don't think that is a reason to change the way war is conducted.  This is also a misconception.  People like to look to the past with rose tinted glasses and remember the memorable wars.  Dating as far back as I can remember there have been simple takedowns where people were just swept to the side.  It's just that people don't remember those because they were fairly uneventful. 

The problem isn't in the mechanics but in the players.  As my friend XavierRudd said roundaboutly, I think it's more of a player issue than anything else.  Many of the best and most memorable wars were launched when the odds were maybe 50/50 or less.  Granted that is 100% based on environment at the time but the point stands.  This isn't me calling anyone weak or anything like that.  It's me saying that maybe people were more daring in the past.  Let's take Godfather RobOakheart for example.  He didn't like the way things were going, he dared to war when the odds were against him, and he won.  He didn't rely on game changes or anything to see his vision be done.  The same can be said for many of the memorable wars.  The Fort War, The May War, etc.  The list goes on

Don't rely on the admins to make your war experience more "fair".  This game is a direct reflection of life.  Life isn't fair and war shouldn't be either.  Who dares wins.  

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That isn't entirely true Astra and just because 3-4 wars in 4-5 years have somehow changed the climate doesn't mean the war system is good. Also no you are wrong it isn't that players improved its that the game changed MIA's from 8 every 2-3 days to 16 increasing the amount of kills you can gain a month by double what it use to be.

It then allowed user spawns for durdens when we use to get 1-2 maybe 3 durden spawns of 80 a month, now you get durden spawns of 2000 like 3 times a month.

Yea I would say that has quite a contribution to the way wars are now days where an entire city gets wiped in 2 minutes time. I don't really think there is a need to pick apart any more of your argument seeing as that alone pretty much makes your thought there incorrect.

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Sure.  The mechanics on how a gun is trained have changed vastly over the course of this games lifetime.  But, I don't think that's changed how wars or take downs are conducted.  The only thing that increased MIAs and NPCs have changed is timeline.  I remember a time when 1% of the game population trained a gun because things were so restrictive in mechanics and player ideology.  I think "opening up the books" is a good thing, and massive takedowns is a result of that.

The biggest change to wars has been the implementation of districts, making it much harder to pin down the targets down especially when every city had 3 districts on a 5 minute travel timer.

All I am saying that wars should be decided, dictated, and the results showing what the players choose, not what game mechanics allow.  I'm all for getting people more involved in war efforts and the like.  I think that should also rely on the players also.

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Astra no disrespect intended but I think you misunderstood the original post I don't think anyone is asking that the game be made more "fair" or that the admins "save" them,honestly I think it more the opposite. People have begun to dislike the fact wars now a days have become simple math equations as you said, people want action people pine for the times when the math maybe wasn't as understood when there was more guess work and things weren't calculated down to a science, perhaps that has never been the case but I would argue when kill counts were lower there was to some extent more guess work around what you could and what you couldn't hit.

You say sometimes its a slug fest sometimes it isn't but I think kinda the point of this thread is that we can count on one hand the slug fests of semi recent memory. They stand out because they were fun and objectively speaking should we not seek to add more thrill and fun to the game? Naturally of course the powers that be will always be resistant to change, once people attain power they want to hold onto that power for as long as possible they want things simple and uneventful typically speaking because they are reliant upon the status quo to maintain power. So of course its all a double edged sword and I dont have the answers merely making a counter argument.

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Maybe I did misunderstand the original post, and I'm sorry if I did.  I was just reading though the successive posts and seeing many people come up with game changes that would effectively change how wars are conducted.  

You want spice?  Excitement?  Fun?  Players should do that themselves.  That, or make suggestions to where gun building is way more selective so there is no choice but to have a slug fest as you said in "when kill counts were lower".  I would be highly against that.  I remember a time when the 1% that knew how to train a gun ruled and kept it a closely guarded secret.  I don't think we need to go back to those dark times.

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okay so I agree witoh Vincent it sucks Being whipped out when your offline I have almost quit MR because of it Just started out and a family went to a war with my family and I was offline asleep and woke up saying I was dead I like the heat Idea also every shot you take on someone you get heat added to you and idk how hard it would be to code this into a game but what if we could get locked up For killing people To make it more real and you be locked up for 3 days be pretty cool like being a godfather and getting sent to jail and you could still call shots from inside the jail lol but like if I flew to new York and took a shot at someone and misses I get heat on me and if I take other shot more heat Etc Till being busted or when people get witnesses statements they can turn them into the police to get you busted or if we could get caught on camera I use to Play a game where it was like that and if you was in prison you cant really do anything expect send messages and smuggle drugs in to make money in the prison but you could buy shanks and have them  for protection and everything you did had payback Like I remember getting locked up for two murders I was locked up for 7 days and one of the rival member was locked up already bought a shank and killed me in prison For The two murders of his family people would pay you if they knew you was a hitter or had a high chance of killing someone in jail for protection and also when you went to go kill someone options would pop up like places to murder people and options to wear mask for less chance of getting spotted if you did hit and ways to kill like one was at Home other one was while they was out shopping or other one was car bomb other one was drive bys or walk ups it made you feell like part of the life like when you failed a hit it would pop up saying you rigged the car one of the wires must of been bad and you would have to find that person again after a cool time and try again if a hit attempt was made on your life and you would and depending on how they tried to kill you like if they wore a mask you could have a less chance of spotting who did it if they did a walk up or drive by and you got hit you would have a better chance of seeing them because they dint wear a mask and if you got shot and lived you was in the hospital where you could not get touched because it was a lot  of heat if you killed someone in a hospital

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Astra I too disagree with your input.  On one hand you are expressing no game mechanics should change regarding war. In another breath you are suggesting a change where gun building is way more selective. Hypocritical?

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Here's my $.02:

If anything, I think ultimately, the coding should change...and that's (obviously) up to the coders.

1) I don't want a decrease in targets to shoot. Some people come to these parts to click buttons, one of which is the WACK button. It's easy to see just how many people enjoy shooting by seeing how many people are online when Durdens spawn. MIA's also provide quite a bit of revenue for the developers (buying credits), so I don't want to see the game hurt financially.

2) I don't want a decrease in bodyguards. Those of us that remember the "old days", remember how rare bodyguards were and how only the elite leaders could ever afford them. In a sense, it made them untouchable and left the "plebs" easy(er) targets in times of war anyway. 

3) I don't want a change in game mechanics. Mechanics have already been added, in the past (fortifications), that should have balanced things and it still hasn't fixed this issue.

So all that said, I believe the only way to fix this "problem" is to change the code itself. Make it harder to kill sponsored players. Up the stats. 

Personally, the game has always adapted and those of us that remember the "old days", know that nothing lasts forever. At some point, the tyrants of today will turn into the tyrants of tomorrow... and so on and so on. No amount of taking things out of the game or changing game mechanics will "make things fair". 

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Yes Rathbone the best highlight of the game as in all other games is the use of the gun. The bottom line is wars are the past. Takedowns is the new thing. So if we are going to have takedowns tweaking is much needed. 

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The improvement in how easy it is to build a gun goes hand in hand with takedowns being more of a wipe now than it use to be when only 1 person fell and everybody else came together to fight for their city.

This is the beginning and the end of actual wars and until this changes to where these user durden spawns, and the MIA count and all the other things you can do to build a gun quickly ends its always going to be this way.

When I first started playing it took me like 3-4 months to learn how to legitimately build a gun, and even then it wasn't until Draven and Eepster taught me about racing where I finally started building, now I am not saying to necessarily go back to the RIA racing days fully because that took a lot out of your day and was for people who could focus a good chunk of their time every day but it was a good start to separating things from hitters and casuals, now days every casual is a hitter and people I remember 3-4 years ago who couldn't build a gun for shit are some of the "best" gun builders in the game.

Does something need to change? Yea I would say it does as currently its about build a gun and help your city wipe people, or die because you did build a gun and everybody is paranoid, or if you have been a rogue in the past and "ranked up and did something about it" as many say to do you get added to the MR International Watch List and killed every 60 days.

The only fun way I see of that is the first option which restricts your ability to actually play how you want. The simple fact is the game IMO has gone downhill and I don't know the statistics nor am I going to pay a lot of attention to it but I do feel as if the population has depleted a lot since pre-districts and maybe districts are the problem, who knows either way we can go in circles about this forever but this is just my thoughts on it.

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I been playing a few years and I have been in wars that lasted hours or days and I have also experienced wars that happen in 5 mins, you just gotta roll with it.

My first account died in 24hrs due to a war lol it sucks , but MR can be like that.
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I think the problem people are having Gunz is that the days wars are very sporadic they rarely happen if at all anymore. People want to enjoy the war system and simply put there isn't much to enjoy about it these days.

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^I don’t think I could’ve said it better than silence did there. We need to go back to the days of if someone is going to be a real hitter then they’re going to dedicate a ton of time to doing it. Now days any casual player can have a cannon in just a few months. So having one means nothing it’s why we see so many takedowns now instead of two cities fighting a war
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I agree with Silence. Changes are definitely in order and if it hurts some feelings (Vets) oh fucking well. You don't run this game. If anything you are running it into the ground. Our money is not as good as yours? I have personally recruited a few and I am in position to do it again. 

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NRA, that's both a fair take, and the wrong approach. You want to improve the game, I appreciate that. but dismissing the opinions of "Vets" because they disagree with you won't help improve the game. It will just cause people who continue to play and support this world to leave, and take there money with them. It's the same attitude some of them have, but in reverse.

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We see takedowns alot now because the idea of privacy is non existing. Universal shot reports. Uppers putting friends over there city till they begin sharing info.
If i knew u have 15 capped gun guess who im trying to hit first lol.
Think the game is falling away from mafia as i have been saying for a while. Vets, noobs, rogues, incogs whatever u wanna group people in this is our community together. Hopefully we can fix something about the lack of war as its bothering for some.
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ralph my approach is anything but wrong. And you know it.

The vets carefully pick and chose when they speak. Just as you did on this instance. 

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This is going to fall on deaf ears I see, but i'll try anyway.

You remain not incorrect. The offhand rejection of change has a negative effect on the game. However, dismissing "Vets" just because some of us don't like change, leaves plenty of us who think that good ideas should be nurtured feeling that we are not going to bother speaking up about what we think is a good idea or a bad idea since "fuck the vets" is the opinion of the person making it. 

 

You want to improve the game, get input. But don't be salty about how and where it comes from. Sift for good input, and ignore the bad. 

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Clank brings up a valid point, back when racing was a thing and gun building was overly hard if you wanted to war somebody you had to be smart about it, very few times did the GF or CL's go down in the first wave, maybe 1 or 2 depending on the gun size of whoever their biggest hitter was but usually it was very challenging to do.

Wars were wars, BG shooting and an attempt for the opposing side to catch big guns that weren't capped BGs off guard and with a 246 BG cap a lot of people weren't even close due to the prices it took.

I don't know how many active players now days have experienced that kind of game play but if you did you know how incredible it was and you know the second you woke up and saw a few names in obits of Capo's etc...that it was a war going on, but back then a real war.

It takes months to build a gun for somebody who doesn't set alarms, doesn't do MIA's consistently, doesn't shoot Durdens from a phone or BGs, doesn't get on the game while they work or in the middle of the night when they have to pee.

Now I am not saying the game should cater to the casual community but now days its not even fair to those types of players, the game is legit a wipeout a city and be done with it style of wars, most people who put time in don't even know what happened nor had a chance to fight. Probably a big reason for the decline in the userbase among other things.

Perhaps its time as a community that we work with Squishy to reform things that are turning players away and figure out how to change that with a system that keeps people wanting to play.

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Yeah I’ll be honest nothing in this game has even been more fun than being in a Skype with your crew coordinating wave after wave of BGs hits and findings enemys, as well as figuring out who is going to pro and timing it so your hitters don’t get killed themselves.. jeez the old wars were really the highest point this game has even been at.
That is to say at least for a playing like me, if we could get this game back to that point I really think I’d be way more active around here and I think the general user base would as well. It would bring meaning and competition back to this thing of ours
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