TheNavigator , how confident you are in what you're saying really does make this funnier.

Being cursed by knowing too much certainly seems a heavy burden to bear, you have my deepest and least sincere sympathies. 

As for how you are wrong in your assumption, it's because I know Rudy and his bloodline, and I can tell you the only group they've ever been associated with is Slackers Anonymous as each generation desperately searches for the cure to the genetic disorder known as slackitis. It's unfortunately extremely prevalent in his family. 

No sir I listened.  You gave solutions that were already attempted well before anyone "innocent" was shot at.  The war was already well past it's 24th hour before the policy change.  I'm asking you what you'd have done differently with that new information.  When every attempt to be merciful was met with resistance what would you do to end the conflict?  Or would you see your people die?

Maybe I am wrong about Rudy and he has cast off his previous associations.  If I am I deeply apologize.  You are right in that I shouldn't assume that I know everything.  

I'm still waiting for one person to come up with a different solution given the fact that every attempt was made to be merciful to everyone until a certain point where the matter was pushed.  The allies were bit and set back many times by recently turning Gangsters, people refused invites when messaged.  I am really actually curious what else anyone can come up with.  Maybe you'll change war forever.

Poor TheNavigator.. Apparently you listen but can't process the woirds said in your brain fast enough to let the neurones connect. That brings the whole 'knowing too much' in a different perspective.

Just like for a tiny little glass, a drip of water can be too much too hold..

An example. After a recruitment process in ThomasLaurel's crew, my father was invited to a crew. He wanted to join, but the one invited who him had died when he wanted to accept the invitation and therefore he could not join. There were no options to work for any crew, there was no one reaching out by anyone, noone asked him anything. 14 hours after the war started he was shot. You won't win a discussion with made-up information, dear..

Do you see how you keep on assuming.. And are actually not so very good at it? The stuff that you say you know too much of.. Are those assumptions, too? Or do you assume you know too much?

Shifting his look to Goethe, Rudy frowns.. Then chuckles

Yet again you dodge the question like a true master. 

There were tons of spaces for people to go.  My father had no problem finding a spot very late into the conflict.  Well after your 14 hour attempt easily.  All I had to do was look up the crews and pick one that wasn't full.  So, I don't really see that as a valid excuse.  Sure, maybe very flew slipped through the cracks and weren't contacted but I was and I know many more that were.  As I said before many found housing mid conflict and we're here discussing the deaths of 9 Gangsters.  Maybe you just weren't proactive.

I'm just going to have to assume that you value the lives of "innocent" Gangsters more than your own family.  

HE answered you TheNavigator. Maybe you should turn those hearing aids up.

HE didn't.  He named solutions that had already been tried.  I'm asking what ELSE he would have done, or anyone else would have done.  

He did. His answer just wasn't what you wanted to hear. The killing of innocents isn't acceptable.

It isn't really an argument when his solutions were already tried by the leadership and they failed.  Stonewalling and saying "it's never acceptable" isn't a good argument either.  What would people be saying if peoples delicate sensibilities allowed more of the allied forces to be killed?  Why would anyone follow these leaders if they weren't willing to do damn near anything to protect their people?  That was the alternative.  Instead of this topic we'd be discussing why morals and ethics allowed more people to die and let the conflict drag on even longer.  Would you follow them?

Hannah was gleefully prancing through the streets looking for someone she could lay claim to as her own poor little gremlin that she would love, nurture and care for deeply whilst she taught them the ways of the world in her head, which many deemed a land of madness, when she overheard a commotion. Listening in curiously it appeared to her that someone was attempting to strike up a conversation to discuss both sides of a coin and whilst for many this was a pretty simple task it would appear as usual there was another totally different 'creature' humiliating themselves by trying to look significant.

"This seems like the perfect place for potential gremlin catching" she sung to herself as she skipped on over to crowd for a better vantage point just catching the start of her potential target opening the beautifully horrific hole in their face yet again.

".........trying to do here Rudy.  You and your shitty group lost yet again.  Now you want to try to turn the general population against the victors just to make their lives difficult out of spite.  Trust me.  I know all about propaganda campaigns.  Anyone who believes you is as stupid as you are."

Hannah tilted her head and stared at the gremlin with her mouth wide open in shock. "ooooooooo silly little gremlin used a baaaaaad word and must be bad, bad in the head and must be bad, bad, bad! Must be punished... BAD GREMLIN! NO!!" she grumbled under her breath and shocked those standing around her with the sudden outburst at the end.

She continued twirl around the crowd pirouetting from space to space listening to the funny little imp until she had finally heard enough, with a great run and a leap she jumped from the crowd and forcefully landed herself down into the arms of the her prize gremlin to their surprise. Both of them clattered to the ground and through the stunned silence of the surrounding crowd all that could be heard was the maniacal giggling erupting from Hannah's mouth. 

Lifting her finger up to the gremlins forehead and letting it trail down its cheek to the mouth she suddenly slapping her hand across his face and said "Bad gremlin! You ruined my hopes for you, I was going to capture you and look after you and hug you and teach you the important ways of my world but BAD GREMLIN! You've ruined it all now and I can't do all those things because you're a BAD GREMLIN!" She screamed slapping him again. "You were going to my little special little thing that I would love and you've ruined it for me by pooping more out of your mouth than you poop out of your rear and for that I can never forgive you. Hannah maybe might be possibly absolutely crazy but at least I don't mouth poop as much as you do with your bad mouthy poop words!"

Giving the gremlin one final slap she jumped up and proceeded to continue on twirling her away out of sight from the crowd.

Rudy was never one of us lol, every single blue name in that obit was also not part of our gig. 

The fact that it took every city in the game, plus an unnatural intervention three days to take down one small city is very telling of the state of the leadership right now, playing wack-a-mole with people fresh off the boat just goes to show how scared you are of ONE person. 

I pity the navigator so encumbered by knowledge that he cant even comprehend what others are saying, or maybe he is just unencumbered by intelligence. Either way this is bad business for everyone, and if someone truly fresh off the boat was unable to play for the better part of three days I'm sure they would probably leave these shores for good and it shouldnt take a rocket surgeon to know why thats a bad thing.  

Just stands and looks at all crap that are read from some, it was a war and then there are many poor ones slaughtered to since many support the enemy by being pros its pretty clear that they get killed asap.

Wonders where all false rumours comes from.........

Quite the controversial topic you got there. I find both sides partly right and partly unreasonable.

First of all, killing innocent people is wrong. Any crewed member not using his gun and for ill purposes and following orders should absolutely not be killed. But there is always the possibility of a new member betraying the family and helping the remnants of your enemies. So what should be done about that?

My opinion is that the crew leaders have a responsibility to protect their family and therefore should make sure their enemies don't get any help from the inside. They can take all guns from members they don't trust, they can issue an order to restrict everyone in a certain location away from the war,  they can even take further action if one of their members are not following those orders, that's fine with me. What about the crewless members? In order for the leaders to have proper control over the new gangsters, they have to be crewed. So the leaders are responsible to find every single one and attempt to recruit them, give them the appropriate orders and make sure the gangsters comply. If the innocent gangsters were warned by a leader or a sponsor that they had to join a family or be killed due to the danger of prolonging the war, then it's a different story.

Did the leaders who made the call and are responsible for the death of innocent people went through all that trouble first? There is absolutely no excuse for them if they skipped that part and didn't try to avoid taking innocent lives. No matter how busy they might have been with the war, they have their trusted Hands and they certainly have sponsors who have the responsibility to follow such recruiting orders. Because being a leader should not be a free pass to acting irresponsibly; instead they are competent mafiosi able to lead and manage families and should be able to pull off fighting a war while minimizing collateral damage. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to blame someone, I'm just saying how things should be done since some people brought up this topic and are discussion with such passion. I personally don't know what exactly happened, all I can see is the bodies of the dead.

Of course this is just my opinion. In the end, the leaders decide themselves what they have to do and all we can do is watch. Before blaming them we should collect and cross-check all information available to us, instead of resorting to "people probably didn't get a chance to prove themselves" or "probably didn't get contacted". And if it turns out the leaders are indeed in the wrong and are suffering no real consequences from their actions, all we can do is pray to the Gods and hope that the Gods' punishment for such wrongdoings becomes more severe.

What false rumours, Tutte?

I am sorry, but I don't really get your point.. You feel it's crap that people are talking about shooting innocents? Or do you think it's crap that people don't understand.. Sorry.. don't agree.. with the fact that everone that came of age was killed? 

If you ask my opinion, like I guess TheNavigator tried to do, I agree with @Nick, among others. What has been done was quite drastic. It does not mean I do not understand the mechanics, and I feel Insta described his thoughts really well.

Turning towards Fashion, Rudy continues

I feel exactly the same. I do understand what happened, and why it happened. Yet I know those tick-boxes you met were not all checked. I know, because my father.. 

Rudy gulps

OK, my father was a pig, quite literally.. And he was meant to die every day. But that is not the point here! 

..I know.. that these conditions you drew out, Fashion, were not met. I agree that housing should have been offered to the crewless. There were many. Basically.. that was thr whole reason they were shot. So because of the high numbers.. Many were killed..? That is what makes me lean more towards the side of feeling that what happened was wrong.

Ok last thing then, whos innocent in a war when it was warfare from all citys against SE then some that changed side and also got enemy against all, please explain this how any can be enemy when they are supporting that sida from Seattle that all other was against, sadly it went this way and I understand fully frustration over this but I followed orders and aboyes them to 100% so sorry for doing this to settled down everything that appeared and must be taking down for all others innocent that Seattle try to kill everywhere.

War is a terrible and awful thing but now its done and all should be berried deep or else we can talk about this forever since many have different tryth as it seems.

Salutes all fallen

"whos innocent in a war when it was warfare from all citys against SE"


Literally people who are fresh off the boat and unaffiliated. Those are innocent, and its verifiable in their obituary. 

Baby Beel sat on a wooden crate and listened. "Adah (You're barking up the wrong tree...)," he muttered and shook his head. "Aboo (There is little ethics among the mafioso. Omerta, loyalty, and promises were among the few.)"

"Aiyah (Killing was never taboo. Killing loyal wiseguys and gangsters who have taken bullets for their made men was not an issue. Killing new faces who would do the same was not an issue. Wiping a whole city was not an issue.)"

"Agah (Their kin may come again to the streets, after the war is over. The regime needed to sleep too.)"

"Aboo (It's nice to hear your opinion though.)"

Baby Beel nodded to himself satisfied. He reached out to his left, and one of his butlers handed him a croquette. He was getting hungry.

The smoke billowed out of his mouth as he put his cigar out on the brick wall. The sun was starting to set as he walked into the street to speak on the topic at hand. He was wearing one of his finer suits with black shades and was surrounded by a few bodyguards who he waived off as he approached the milk crate.

I like to think that most mobsters walking these streets would agree that when the attacks happened it threw everything into a bit of chaos. I personally think a new mobsters should be afforded every chance to survive, but during a war when your family is at risk then you protect what is yours by any means necessary.

A few brand new gangsters fresh off the boat are a small sacrifice to ensure longevity of my family, friends and everyone I care about.. but that is just my opinion. 

He kicked the milk crate against the wall and casually walked over to a parked car and rested against it. Searching his pockets for another cigar he pulled out some casino chips which reminded him of his poker game tonight