actually, after thinking about it, if there were cops to fight then i think it would enhance this thing of ours alot, i would happily support a suggestion that was well thought out and presented well int his subject. i look forewars to hearing about it in suggestions boulivard.

Maeve runs up, eager to join in the argument only to find it had come to a somewhat peaceful agreement. A little dismayed, she sighs and kicks a stone against a building before turning around to go about her daily business.

Ozzy let me get this straight... you want to go on strike?

I challenge the people of any city to go on strike or decide not to do their job. There are usually a team of, well, lets call them strike busters,who are more than willing to have fun with people like that. There is also no shortage of bullets. I can tell you one thing for sure, in Las Vegas, everyone is expected to do their part. If you want to go on strike go ahead, but be willing to accept the consequences when it happens.

War will always be around, if you encroach on my territory or money you will have to answer to myself and my family. That is the way it has always been, and there is always someone looking for more territory and money.

I dont think that you thought about why there is war. Its not like the Godfathers or any crew leader decided to have war for no reason.

Simply suggesting that the Godfathers have peace for a month is stupid. If there is a situation where killing is an option then they will have to make the best decision for there city. You cant have a situation go on with no punishment for a long time.

I dont see why you would want a month anyway? What would a month do? Time to build your character maybe?

It takes months to create a good account. Maybe if you stop trying to make theings easier for yourself and start putting hard work into your account, you can then help a Crew Leader during a war and survive.

That been said wars are great fun too.

Shaggs: Who's interest is it to go to war? As for your "challenge" for people to "decide not to do their job," isn't it also the job of the thugs and lower level gangsters to watch out for their family and ensure that the Godfathers and Crew Leaders aren't going to war for nothing? Also, "if you encroach on my territory or money," this "problem" would be eliminated if the Godfathers agreed to a peace agreement. Your money and territory wouldn't be under "attack" if there was an agreement not to attack comrade. Our enemy is not other cities and the mobsters in them, our enemies are the cops and law enforcement agencies that try to impose their laws on us (even though their presence in this thing of ours is greatly underrepresented).

Hickey: What reasons do the Godfathers have to go to war? This issue seems rather unclear to me. When is killing and possible sacrifice of your city's men the "best decision" for the city. It seems to me that a long-lasting peace would be beneficial for everybody, from the Godfathers all the way down to the newest gangster.  As for the month suggestion, I was just throwing out a random time period, it doesn't matter how long the "peace accord" lasts, the point is that this thing of ours has a deficiency of law enforcement for us to fight, and it is not in our financial interest to go to war with each other since we all have the same drive to make profit illegally.

You seem to forget the 1930s cops and the law in general were bribed up to 80% or higher. There was almost no resistence. The 1930s were all about power and standing in the mafia world. Everyone wanted to be the "Boss of Bosses". Whacks were a daily thing and territory fights all over the place was more common than fighting the law.

To put it bluntly ozzy, no it is not the thugs and gangsters jobs at all. Sure, as a RHM I listen to everyone in my family no matter how small, but when shit hits the fan, or it's time to make a decision. It is my ass and my leaders ass on the line. We are the ones who have been entrusted with our positions, the ones who earned them. It is our job to make the decisions that affect everyone in our family. If I have to take a shot that will ensure that my family stays safe, a gangster or a thug is not going to stop me, its as simple as that.

Do you want to know what war does? It keeps our lives interesting, if I knew that there was no chance I could die then what fun is that? The fact that I could be shot at any point in time makes me work harder to make what I have and the time I have worthwhile. Yes, making money is great, it is our ultimate goal, but I will fight tooth and nail to protect my family and city.

This is not a communist country, I have no desire to share what I've earned with other cities. This is the way of life that I have chosen. I you do not want to be a part of it than that is your choice. Like others have said, once you find a cop that gets in my way I will remove them as well. I will gladly stand and fight the police with you, but the only cops I know are my friends on my payroll.

Vino: That's in interesting statistic to throw around here on the streets, do you have anything to back up your claim? As for your understanding of our criminal underworld and how it actually operates, you'd be surprised that many national calls for an organized crime syndicate have been made by the crime leaders from all the major cities. You see, the heads of the various crime organizations throughout this nation realized that inter-gang wars were not beneficial for anybody involved, since wars necessarily produce dead bodies, and dead bodies can't carry out profit-making crimes, so war between each other is a bad idea. We already have enough problems with local and national law enforcement, why would we want inter-gang fighting as well?  I mean, its just one more element to worry about and watch out for, but if the Godfathers of the various cities were united in some sort of Crime Syndicate, then our ability to profit would be greatly enhanced. 

Sure the argument has been made that if you take over another city or sector of the illegal market your profits will increase, but at what cost? Isn't security in your already lucrative illegal enterprises enough? The Godfathers of the various cities are already well protected and rich, do they need more at the risk of losing it all? That seems like a silly task to undertake with the cost of the consequences for failing. If you are a Godfather or Crew Leader, you are already in a position of power, prestige, and enormous wealth, why would you want to jeopardize that? What is the benefit to risking all the power and prestige for just a little bit more profit? From a cost-benefit analysis perspective, the "costs" greatly outnumber the "benefits." 

And as for the interests of us lower-level gangsters, what do we profit from the warmongering and risky behavior of our Crew Leaders and Godfathers? Do we get a share of the pie? Probably not. We are asked to sacrafice our lives for the sake of the pocketbooks of our Godfathers.  

Yes, i can backup my claims about the 1930s, what you are telling me happened at a later stage when drugs were booming and the mafia really made tons of money.

Just then the organized crime world really cooperated. Of course there were some smart gang leaders in 1930s who thought that way you are suggesting but in reality all the big names made it big because of wars and suppressing their rivals in the 1930s and prior to that.

Shaggs: The question is what situations arise that CAUSE "shit to hit the fan?"  The situation that causes "shit to hit the fan" is fear. Fear that your city will be attacked or taken over by another rival crime family, right? Well, if this fear was eliminated, then "shit-hitting-the-fan" situations would also be eliminated.  As for "If I have to take a shot that will ensure that my family stays safe," your family would be safe if a peace accord between Godfathers was agreed upon. You wouldn't have to "take a shot" because no other Godfather that is party to the peace agreement would tolerate anybody from his or her crew to break the peace agreement. Do you see what I am trying to say?  You don't call the shots as a RHM, you provide input to your Godfather and they have the final say. But if there was an agreement between Godfathers, and lets just say that some low-level chump insulted you, you would take that up with your Godfather and he could take that issue up with the insulting chumps Godfather and the issue could be handled in-house vice an all out war between two cities.  This way the peace is maintained, as well as the profits.

Vino: The first calls for a national crime syndicate were made in the early 20's and the first conference to discuss and implement said plans was in 1929 at a conference in Atlantic City.

That didn't have much impact and is said to be the first step towards organized the crime, the 1929 that is. After that SalvatoreMaranzano was killed, at that time the most powerful boss.

Thank you Ozzy, and Vinop, what 'proof' do you have to back up your claims?

We could all have our guns taken away too and have tea parties.

Doesn't that sound fun? I'll even braid your hair ozzy!

At the 1929 conference, "important decisions were made to stop competing with each other during the remainder of Prohibition and cooperate in pooling their resources to maximize profits and develop a national monopoly in the illegal liquor business."  Violence between rival gangs was an abhorrent condition that many crime families sought to eliminate. That is all that I am trying to say here on the streets. We need to push and influence our criminal leaders to see the benefits of a peace plan. We need to let them know that we will not sacrifice our lives for their profits as long as we stay on the bottom. We lower-level gangsters need to band together and provide some pressure on our leaders to agree that peace is better for us all, its better for them in terms of security and profits, and its better for us for the same reasons.

Shaggs: Resorting to silliness won't solve anything. We need our guns, not to fight against each other, but to fight against the very underrepresented law enforcement agents in this thing of ours. And its not a matter of sounding fun Shaggs, its a matter of profit. I wonder what your bosses would think if they knew you cared about "fun" instead of ways of making them the most profits possible.  That kind of renegade thinking is not what a solid and powerful family needs. They need security and a secure source of profits, not the appeasement of some "fun" addict.

Try all you want ozzy, but I'm not giving you that reach around while I'm braiding.

It just won't happen

Shaggs: I would be more than happy to enjoy some tea with you, just name a time and place!

Shaggs: There is no need for that brother, we are just a couple of profit seekers looking for ways to increase our profits. There's no need for ad hominem attacks comrade.  Let us work together to solve our collective security problems, not fight against each other.

Childishness has no place among brothers, also, we are in the streets simply discussing ideas, the stuff you are talking about is Back Alley behavior.