We've seen many leaders, men and women of power come to these streets and claim there is a change of regime. There will be certain changes and will time a new life for us. The promise of a brighter future. Well, I'm here to bring up something I would of been too afraid to in the past. I hope free speech truly does exist in our new modern era.

Has anyone noticed the large amount of young men and women of power? Thugs, Gangsters, and Goombas as Right Hands and Left Hands. It is not my place to decide who ANY family puts in power but hopefully it is my right to come here and ask questions.

Most certainly these young mafioso are the sons and daughters of those of who were just recently in power. Maybe not all of them, but if they are to be trusted so quickly there MUST be a bloodline that was previously in charge. Do your Consiglieres mean nothing? Do those that fought next to you so valiantly in that war mean nothing? Are their achievements of battle already forgotten as the bloodline of the old comes around?
Here I was beleiving that there would come change but as we all know: Those who have power to make change are those with power.

I only hope that I am wrong, that we are given change and not the wool.

Right hand and left hand positions are based on trust and skill, its not an automatic position given to two high ranking members of the family.

Trust is earned not given just cause your here everyday. As a first generation member of this world I may not know much but would you really want someone in your crew as a rhm or lhm you didnt trust? They are going to be the person who knows everything about your crew not to mention their voice is heard a bit better. You cant just give that power to any joe shmo.

I completely agree with you Cadoras. I know that trust is a huge issue with the position of Hands in this thing of ours. I only wish that rank meant as much. It is my belief that once given the rank of MadeMan that a family now confirms to the rest of the community that this person is a trusted member of society and of their family. The ranks above increase in the amount of trust and faith in said member. As I pointed out, what about the Consiglieres of those families? Why pass over a trusted adviser to your entire family for the son of a friend?

Clarity walked over and looked at the man. She raised an eyebrow and then decided to give a short answer.

"The 'Change' that everyone speaks of is not exactly the change you speak of. The change everyone was hoping for was that there would no longer be tyrants controlling your every word, move, or decision you made."

"I have to agree with Cadoras too about the Right hand and Left hand part. You have to earn the trust of your leader and you have to of earned the right to be there. Certainly, if the Consigliere had done this they would hold that position. Not every person who is promoted holds the same amount of trust that you have for your Right or Left hand. Yet, who is to say if your Right hand died that you should have to replace that person because their kin is now a low rank."

while being a consig means you are trusted a bit more I do think that you still cant trust anyone 100% i mean look at the last war for examples of friends and crews not 100% loyal. usally the rhm or lhm is someone the crew leader has had a relationship with for a long time (their whole family sons/daughters included) They know how eachother tick and all that jazz. I personally would rather my rhm or lhm be someone who I know 100% will back me up or atleast know when to tell me to back down haha

First of all, before I even respond to the topic at hand; "Free Speech" doesn't exist. The only thing that keeps you safe is how people interpret what you say, and no one gives a rat's ass about your rights as an American. Here, it's all about interpretation; and if your words are interpreted in a way people don't like, the only protection afforded to you is what's supplied by your boss. If your boss CAN protect you from all the bad guys in the world, then say what you want. Otherwise, keep your head on a swivel.

Now, onto the topic at hand! A good one, too. It's not just about the fact that Thugs, Gangsters, and Goombas are deemed more useful in the RHM/LHM positions, it's the effect of that person's bloodline. I refuse to believe that anything a person can accomplish within their first 24 hours in the Mafia could possibly make them worth the slanties. To be honest, you have to suspend belief to think it's "okay" to put a Thug in charge of a family; but that trust extends from who raised that Thug. When you place that Thug in a place of power, you are hoping that the morals and ideals of his parents are just as prominent in him. If not, it will flop.

As to WHO a crewleader places in charge when that leader is away, that is strictly the leader's discretion. However, to suggest that the next highest-ranking member of the family is supposed to fill in that gap is preposterous. Look at it this way; the Consiglieres that you're suggesting to fill that role have done all their work for the boss with someone else as RHM. Stepping in and taking over those duties? Can't be easy. I think each family is its own case in that respect. One family may have a group of great men and women, each talented and prepared to lead the crew if someone in the structure falls. But then some families are BASED on the fact that someone is supposed to be that RHM, and that someone isn't you. So, it's typically best to just wait for the fallen RHM/LHM's next of kin to take the reigns.

As to the change; there's no reason to suggest this is a problem. The risk is 100% the leaders', and if that bugs you, don't serve under a Crewleader with a Thug RHM. That's the only control you have over the situation, so you best accept that.

Your mentality Clarity, over time will cause stagnancy. The exact evil most speak of when they speak ill of this thing of ours. The same men and women over and over given the greatest oppurtunity there is, the chance to run a family and be a RH. If change is truly at our door steps I say let it in, not just ask it to stand at the door and ask it to look pretty.

While I understand where those that have the issues of trust are coming from I don't feel as if that is a valid end of discussion for my point. If your members that are mademan and above are not trusted by you to not HQ wack your own members how can the rest of society have faith they ALL wont go rogue?

When a CL passes over numerous Consiglieres to give his/her RH or LH to a thug all I can think is that person has no trust in all of their members, not enough anyway.

Clarity frowned at what the man said to her.

"I wasn't saying that they will or should choose the same person over and over. I was saying that if they trusted someone enough to have them in that position they would be given the chance. So please don't say it is my mentality because you heard what I said wrong. I was only saying that why should rank exactly matter if they don't have someone of a higher rank that they trust for that position."

"I myself would know that is true that people who are trusted that much. My mother was a Don for quite a long time until she was gave the chance to obtain the position of a Right Hand. I understand where you come from, but there is obviously a reason that the leader doesn't trust one of their higher ranks enough to give them the chance."

I find myself constantly wishing that rank meant as much as it used to. In response to many of the points made I say to myself, "This wouldn't be the issue if ranks were a reflection of trust, honor, and respect. Instead of a reflection of time and lack of doing wrong."

Though what someone does and doesn't earn is a difficult conversation, one that at the best we can only speculate about.

What we do know is that high ranked mafioso have been passed over for younger mafioso of blood that is already trusted. Blood that has already been deemed unworthy of serving the greater good. Not all, but there must be some.

THE_SINGER who was more than fortunate to catch wind of the words BigEasy the second was speaking was encouraged in his heart to participate in one of the first debates of his young life. This, conversation that BigEasy had begun, was a great starter and THE_SINGER looked to be one of the first to speak.

First off i would like to say this is one incredible question and i am very impressed. You make a strong logical point that i feel as a young probably the youngest RHM alive i should speak up. My father was around the time of RoRoG. His name was SINGER. I was not nor were my fathers involved in the war. Yes i knew men that were and i heard of the glorious battles that had occured in the streets even the deaths that took the lives of some of the greatest mobsters we have seen. I think in leadership one must recognize the gifts and talents of every individual that follows him or her. To ignore the talents of one and give the other a prestigous title just because they have killed men in a war or because they carry a few more drug units does not and should not mean they deserve such an honor.

A question that says "Do your Consiglieres mean nothing?" Is a challenge from a man who does not yet understand leadership. I carry ten men with me into war and we all shoot at the opposition and we win the war does not mean i should give the four stars over to the man who shot the most bullets but the man who understands the strategies of where and when the bullets should be fired. You follow up this first question with a more serious asking "Do those that fought beside you so valiantly mean nothing?" Of course every man or woman that has fought beside their fellow warriors means something why else would they fight with them and not against them? Why would they keep them if they meant absolutely nothing? Again this comes down to pure recognition of ones talents. The time a man that is a consigliere puts into his family is invaluable the sacrafices they make are remarkable, but does this mean they should get the title because they earned a higher rank? No.

I think a pride issue would be the reason any man who requested a title because he was a certain rank or because he earned the rank of DON. I did not ask for my position i was asked to be in my position and because of this i am most honored. In a strange sense i have to say i know nothing of this world for i am only a child in the eyes of Godfathers but to think my existance did not yet begin until i joined the mafia is pure ignorance. Of course i grew up in vegas and watched Paul Trabottis scrapyard prosper through many "business transactions" Of course when i moved to New York i was able to witness the "deals" done by the made men of different crime families. I am recognized as a RH for NY not only for who i am but for what i can do and what i know. My bloodline has the oldest business in all Mafiareturns named after Roxanne in New orleans! Without arrogance, You can ask any son of a man who has held a SINGER in a position of leadership and you will know he always helped increase the activity within the family.

In closing, im not trying to offend you but i feel i should speak that i am one of those who is merely a goomba. A right hand not just because of who i am or how good looking i am but how i can help organize, manage and lead a family to success, this was an immediate recognition not only from Stallion but from The_Jester as well. I will be the first to step down from leadership if i dont feel i am helping the family grow. Let me end with the fact that i enjoy public debates but i think that if you want a freedom of speech and it to be respected respect should always first come from you and not appear to be accusing of any people at all. Thankyou for your time!

THE_SINGER smiles and waves fairwell for the night.

StanJR hears BigeasyIIs speach Checks his rank Goomba LHM smiles

" BigeasyII the positions of RHM and LHM are not given away lightly,The position that my Father filled as LHM to Cadoras was not a position he dreamed of aspireing to, Now that said it comes down to TRUST and who is qualified to fill the position did i think i would take over my fathers role as LHM no did i still want the role YES. I was honoured when Cadoras made me LHM and hummbled that he still thought i could do the job. Think about what chaos could come if a cl made someone RHM who was out to avenge a long dead relative, It comes down to TRUST and ABILITY"

BigEasyII, I think you're looking at this in the wrong perspective. As I am a Goomba RHM to the acting Godmother of Philly, I can relate to this very issue personally.

The perspective you need to think about is, yes there was a war. People died. Who are these new RHM/LHM? Are they possibly the fallen's next of kin and decided to return back to the side of their Boss? That's the way I see it. I really do NOT see it the way you do, "What we do know is that high ranked mafioso have been passed over for younger mafioso of blood that is already trusted." No one has been passed over due to their lack of trustworthiness.

The position of RHM/LHM as Cadoras originally first said, is a position of trust and skill. The RHM is after all in charge of the Crew or even City when their acting Boss is not available or away even. Trust is the biggest factor when selecting a RHM, not rank like you might be thinking...

Because in all reality if my cousin, MikeHunt, was not shot and killed during the war he'd still be where I am today. At Godmother Cassi's side, operating in the great city of Philly.

I believe it comes down to how crew leaders run their family. Personally I want all my high rankers capable of taking over hand positions if the need requires it. To become reliant on a certain someones bloodline to always come back to take on the same position essentially becomes a weakness within your family. What if the bloodline stops coming back? What if your RHM or LHM didn't father/mother any children? You should never put yourself in a situation where you might get into trouble in the future, always prepare for the worse. I had lost my own Right hand man in the recent war. He was the most trusted person I have ever known. But he is gone, sure his son came back but his son is not him though I expect in the future for him to be 100 times better. Also I think it becomes disrespectful to my members to promote someone who didn't sweat it out in this family, who didn't prove what they have got like they did. People need to know that if they keep up their hard work they may have a position in a higher role, keeps them keen. But if they see that the roles above them just keep cycling through a certain bloodline and they never get a chance, well I am sure it can get quite depressing.

For me the only reason for their to be a hand with such a low rank is because the crew leader hasn't got anyone else and is just starting, so that hand can grow as the family grows, just like in Singers case. But when well established families put thugs in a hand position over their consigs or boss well then maybe they should really consider if that member should be holding their rank. If you can't trust them as a hand how could you trust them as a consig? Just my thoughts.

But at the end of the day like Cadoras said, it is a position based on trust, some crew leaders like to deal with what is comfortable rather than risking it on the unknown. But how will they ever know what certain members in their family can handle? As for it being a position based on skill well I don't see how you could know the skill level of a thug who has just entered the crime world.

She waves her hand

My turn!

She smiles sweetly..

Many generations ago a friend of the family shared with the world a simple theory when someone moaned about things not being right, needing change, wanting something different... Those words are still true.

"Rank up and do something about it."

She motions for her car to be brought around.

Oh, wait, you expected me to say more? To explain it? I should think it's pretty simple to understand.

If you don't like the way things are.. If you do not approve of the way things are run and done.. Rank up and do something about it. Rank up and gain your leader's trust and be rewarded with the chance to run your family your way... Base your positions on rank rather than knowledge, ability, trust, and most importantly maturity. Promote those under you as you see fit based on your requirements. You want things to change, instigate that change instead of beating a dead horse topic such as this.

Noticing her car pulling up she prepares to leave.

So.. What's stopping you? You want things to change.. Change them. Do something to change them. Saying the same things that have been said over and over in the past won't do a dang thing... As a leader I can say I run my family the way I choose and give the people I choose the opportunity to prove themselves to myself and those I include in my decision making.

Whilst I understand your question, I fear the answer to it part way lies with the gods and their naming of ranks.

The position of hands and the slanty suits they wear has historically gone to those most trusted by the crew leader. this isn't a slight on their ranked members but a realisation of an understanding of the role.

I also do wonder having posed this question do you understand the role in itself?

These thugs, gangsters and goombas you speak of will no doubt have been raised in and around the crew leaders who will know their blood lines, will most likely have had some sway over their upbringing in so far as they will have instilled in them the values they hold dear.

She stops for a moment..

Wait, that didn't make sense...

What I meant to say was..

As a leader I can say I run my family the way I choose to and give those within my family the chance to prove themselves to not only myself, but those that I include in my decision making in regards to rank and position within the family.

I hope that makes sense... But I must be going.. Remember.. If you don't like it, rank up and do something about it.

She runs off to her car late as usual.

Nobody should bitch about change when you're afraid of it, all I'm saying. Excuses run rampant and friends will be friends. Nothing is earned but the people handing stuff out keep saying it should be. Does it make sense? Fuck no.

Rank is a generalized concept that, quite often, doesn't hold the generalized meaning they're intended to convey. I'm a Capo. Do I run a small band of associates? No. I'm the left-hand to a city. While there are certain privileges that come with higher ranks, and while there is often, if not always a structure that deems that the higher ranks be treated with more respect, the fact of the matter is that the crewleader's choice in his right and left hand members are not, and likely never will be bound by that structure. As the people before me have stated, it's the members upbringing and bloodline history that play the biggest role in determining who is fit for the job.

It's naive to think it wouldn't be any other way - as someone who works alongside a right hand who would fit this description, it's fair to say that, in the event that you do see a low-ranked member of an organization as a right-hand, they likely have a fair, if not vast knowledge of this world. We love to throw around the expression "Don't judge a book by its cover" when it comes to appearance - the same rule would apply in this situation.

In a realistic point of view, not that it is occuring on this shores, a thug would never be a right or left hand man. Clearly, realism isnt matched 100% around here. It never has been, nor will it ever be. Leaders use people they've had in that position before, or friends they're certain that they can trust. Sometimes a new person rises up and proves their worth to the leader, gaining the valuable position of right or left hand man.

Some would argue that the sons or daughters of previous hands carry the knowledge and edge in their young lives that their moms and dads once had. Myself find that to be a bad way of buisness. We've adopted this statement of 'wiping the slate clean' as of late it seems. It really should be carried over in this scenerio as well. It's not going to happen, people will return to the comfortable and trusted positions and the world will continue to turn.