I completely disagree with the decision to limit the number of family that can work in any city at one given time.  I envision a future where people are able to build a reputation for themselves on their very first incarnation on this world.  I believe that limiting the number of families so drastically will create a nearly impossible situation for new bloodlines to gain the opportunity to lead.  The best teacher in this world is frequently hands on experience.  Were I in the position to authorize someone to their own family, I would want to option to give a lessor known name a chance to try their hand at leadership. Human nature dictates that leaders will be more likely to only auth long proven bloodlines whenever possible, because they have fewer spaces available.  This pattern of elitism honoring established bloodlines is already much too prevalent in this thing of ours.  I hate to see any policies moving out MR wide that will only promote this practice. 

Couple this change with the change to disallow the employment of NPMs, and you are creating an atmosphere very rigidly anti-new members.  I agree that thus far the use of NPMs has been almost solely for the benefit of long established cities, and has helped widen the gap between the haves and the have nots.  I would prefer instead that the Godfather council consider allowing their use in a modified format, that would possibly help newer bloodlines.  Were we able to implement the use of NPMs only in the first month of leadership for any new family, anyone should have ample time to grow as a unit before the 1 month deadline. 

Additionally, I believe that refusing the use of NPMs is a bad business decision.  Already I can feel the effect on my pocketbook after attempting organized crimes without a little computerized assistance.  I do not feel devalued as a member if my boss rightly decides to make some extra money for the family.  I am not sure how anyone can reasonably claim that they do.  Any leader who would refuse a member for the sake of robot is a sorry excuse for a leader.  I would love to hear examples where this has happened so that I can mock said leader. 

I appreciate the attempt at progress, but honestly I feel as though this will only stifle progress. 

Sprozz, my point was merely that every city wont fill it's 4 HQ quota without the use of NPMs, and the new rules concerning HQ size.

I should add that I agree in part with the rest of your points, I half-acknowledged that argument in my initial speech and this is merely a concern, a query if you will, that I'm raising rather than suggesting it will be a certain problem! As I've said, I'm sure the godfather council considered this when coming to their decision.

if game changes decisions are being made by this council then id suggest they put a stop to the bodyguard purchase loop hole there is  nothing more disgraceful than someone being demoted and then being rewwarded with bodyguards

People have often confused "new" with "incapable". There is nothing within these changes that suggests that new bloodlines will be passed over for old ones or that old ones will triumph over them. If you are new or a million and you forge a reputation for yourself, you will succeed. You will be able to attract members to your banner if you make your banner desirable. Frankly, I don't think that we should allow new people to setup purely because they are new anymore than we should allow old people to setup purely because they are old. We should let the people who demonstrate they want it and are capable of getting it setup as they are the ones who have earned it.

NPMs enable bad leadership and it isn't just strictly in the form of preference. If there is no demand for my family, I won't get any members. That makes sense. Equally, if there is demand for my family and people won't join me, I need to establish myself and make myself more desirable. That makes sense. When we add NPMs into the mix, even if there is no demand for my family, I can still recruit plenty of robots and make money. Equally, if this is demand for my family and people won't join me, I can still just employ NPMs.

For many years, people joined good leaders and bad leaders suffered, that should never have changed. The NPM safety net has now been removed and newer bloodlines that have previously been rushed into positions they couldn't really handle will now hopefully have the opportunity to hone their skills before being thrown into the spotlight. These are all sound policies and make sense. If any do not work, they will be reviewed and adapted by the Godfather Council until they do. Keep in mind; we've operated in this country for many, many years. Until relatively recently, we did that, successfully, without NPMs and we will again.

As to the concern regarding Los Angeles, the Godfather Council has every confidence that this city will be filled. The number of HQs are a maximum that a city can have, not a mandatory amount. There are also cities already with the maximum number of HQs and growing families. Members from these cities can always be considered for authorisation in Los Angeles down the line and as required.

This is the first step on a very long road. I'm extremely excited to see where it goes.

~G~rin.

Hurley, the way i see it is as follows. Putting a stop to NMPs will result in incapability to monopolize money if you are not a Crewleader. Which means only people who are deemed worthy will get Bodyguards. The ability to earn yourself the sufficient amount of money will vanish as the need for a big chunk of credits/npms no longer exists. You will not get around the demoting process though.

"If any do not work, they will be reviewed and adapted by the Godfather Council until they do."

I think this is one of the most sentient points made if I'm honest. People naturally resist change and in all honesty, this is the biggest change we've had in a while, and ait's been enacted in a very short time fram too. That being said, I don't think any member of this Godfather Council is going to be pigheaded enough to keep non performing policies for the sake of it; if things aren't working clearly they will be revised or ammended until they are good for business. Incidentally, may I ask if the Godfather Council works on the basis of a majority vote or a unanimous vote?

Will happily revise my answer to "let's wait and see" and bow out of this discussion then! I will say that I'm very happy to see the Godfathers working together in such a manner, regardless of whether the decisions made turn out the way they intended or not, gives me a lot of hope for the future of our streets!

"That I about the stupidest thing you could have done."

Tommy, I would have hoped a member of my crew would express themselves with a bit more respect considering who you are talking to. Please choose your words more carefully going forward.

may I ask if the Godfather Council works on the basis of a majority vote or a unanimous vote?

At present we havn't had a voting procedure, though it would likely be a tool to be used in the future I suspect, of course that will be a decision made between all on the Council.

The recent changes above were agreed on during last nights meeting and there were of course concerns raised by members of the Council, ultimately the decision was unanimous after our discussions were finished.

People have often confused "new" with "incapable". There is nothing within these changes that suggests that new bloodlines will be passed over for old ones or that old ones will triumph over them. If you are new or a million and you forge a reputation for yourself, you will succeed. You will be able to attract members to your banner if you make your banner desirable. Frankly, I don't think that we should allow new people to setup purely because they are new anymore than we should allow old people to setup purely because they are old. We should let the people who demonstrate they want it and are capable of getting it setup as they are the ones who have earned it.

I am not confusing new with incapable.  I would never argue for an incapable person to be authorized to run a crew.  I do however understand that it is human nature to err on the side of backing a known name.  It is no secret that the vast majority of people on MR believe that a name isn't known until it has been around for several generations.  Were I new to this business, I would become discouraged to see this practice only aided by rules that make it more difficult for people to succed. Also, very frequently we DO see people set up merely because they are old, or see gangster RHM because that person's father earned RHM.  It is impossible for a gangster to have truly earned the same trust that his father before him had earned.  We continue this practice however, because we hold onto the notion that father and son are largely the same person.  You cannot say that doesnt occur with those in bold as well. 

Very unfortunately for MR many bloodlines tend to work with only the same people whom their fathers have worked for, so to me it makes perfect sence to see some leaders fill up more quickly than others.  That does not mean that a lessor known leader cannot or should not be given time to recruit and train those fresh off the boat who will not automatically join a "name."  I might even argue that a newer bloodline would be more willing to use their time to train people into understanding our way of life.  Should the city that wants to foster the leadership sklls of such an unknown individual be hampered by this somewhat arbitrary rule? 

Currently there are very few crew leaders whose bloodlines I have not known of for generations.  I think that is unfortunate.  Again I will say that experience is the best teacher.  One learns so much from taking on a leadership role.  You cannot be taught to be a leader, but you can learn, through experience.  How are we going to give our people the chance to grow if not through practice, trial and error?

I like the idea of all God Fathers and acting God Fathers have pulled together on this one and give this thing of ours a much needed shake up.

I also agree with what Thor said, it seems like we all have a very bright future ahead of us. I look forwards to seeing how we all progress with these changes.

~Jammin~

NPMs enable bad leadership and it isn't just strictly in the form of preference

The point of business is to make money.  NPMs make money, therefor they are good for business.  There is no logical reason why you might claim that making more money is bad for business.  The truth is that this is concidered a less desirable way to make money in certain circles.  Regardless on your opinion of whether NPM money is somehow more dirty than all the money were normally collect, we clearly cannot claim they are bad for business.

Like Eve I am concerened with long standing blood lines, Keeping the mantle, and always being authed. Over those who bust there ass. If a max of 4 including the GF so 3 families. You can say that it dosent happen and it wont but its been talked about for so long and its always kept happening no matter what.

I belive that the max 4 is not needed if the (below) is in place

No authorisations will be made whilst a city has a headquarters with more than 10 available spaces within its borders.

Im glad some mafioso more eloquent than myself have given voice to my main concern...the limiting of HQ's is really going to drastically cut any oppotunities for newer bloodlines...and i feel many of these rules will no doubt lead to an increase in member whoring as people chase lost profit from NPM's and attempt to fill crew spaces

I would also argue with anyone who says this has leveled the playing field for the cities

also i was under the impression the minutes to these meetings were to be made public? is that no longer the case??

also i was under the impression the minutes to these meetings were to be made public? is that no longer the case??

''Im glad some mafioso more eloquent than myself have given voice to my main concern...the limiting of HQ's is really going to drastically cut any oppotunities for newer bloodlines...and i feel many of these rules will no doubt lead to an increase in member whoring as people chase lost profit from NPM's and attempt to fill crew spaces

I would also argue with anyone who says this has leveled the playing field for the cities''

Speaking as the first of an entirely new bloodline in This Thing Of Ours, I couldn't agree more that it is important individuals such as myself see no needless obstacles in furthering ourselves. However, making progress should come as the direct result of plain old hard graft and the ability to make yourself known in a positive light in the eyes of leaders; for my part, I'd still be content that my efforts were worth it even if it is my children or grandchildren who rise up through the ranks rather than myself. Of course, I do agree that new bloodlines of a particularly impressive calibre shouldn't have their potential drowned out by those of a more established social standing - but to me, that is all the more reason to work even harder. I'll trust in my CL, Godfather and the Godfather Council to recognise individuals in my situation, if we so deserve it.

And yes, I did state that these new rules level the playing field somewhat - not entirely. This is still the Mafia, Makarov. The playing field is never going to be measured with a spirit level; it will never be completely evened out. Its probably one of the most Darwinesque environments you could ever place yourself in. However, the formation of the Godfather Council and the proclamation of these new, country-wide rules offers a baseline, a starting point, and in that respect, yes it absolutely does level the playing field somewhat.

if it has levelled the playing field somewhat perhaps you would care to point out how so instead of patronizing me...im well aware this is the Mafia and everyone is looking for an advantage...in fact i would say perhaps one has been taken here.I think you'll find many of the upper echelons protection's,HQ's and bodycounts were purchased off the back of these NPM's that are now being outlawed,a fact im suprised no-body has brought up.

I apologise if you feel patronised, and without wanting to do so again, I'll just redirect you to what I said:

However, the formation of the Godfather Council and the proclamation of these new, country-wide rules offers a baseline, a starting point, and in that respect, yes it absolutely does level the playing field somewhat.