FattyFats comes onto the streets to address something about the Las Vegas experiment

I think we all need a reminder of the rules

1) You must have the permission of your current Don/Godfather.
2) You may only take with you a RHM and a LHM.
3) Nobody who is Extremely Well Protected, Obscenely Well Protected or Insanely Well Protected is eligible for this opportunity.
4) There will be no outside influence from any individual from any other city - you're on your own!
5) Las Vegas will remain open until a Godfather takes control of the city and closes it.
6) There is no limit upon the number of families that can operate within Las Vegas at this time (to be reviewed once Vegas has a Godfather)
7) The city may appoint a representative to act on their behalf on the Godfather Council, provided they are recognised as the leader of the city by all other families within the city.
8) You can use force, guile or diplomacy to succeed in gaining a foothold in Las Vegas and provided it is contained to Las Vegas, there will be no outside interference.

I think we are aware of the rules...unless i've missed something?

I think KeithGandor missed something....

I think I missed something too, a chapter in the Art of War entitled 'how to manipulate ambiguous statements into implying your side are in the right.' I

really don't have a vested interest in what's going in Vegas at the moment, but there is a lot about these 'rules' that isn't particularly concrete so for the sake of devil's advocacy, I'll manipulate them into showing that Keith has done nothing wrong:

First of all, I'm going to go ahead and assume that the Godfathers have ranked these rules in order of importance, Rule 1 being te primary rule lessening in importance all the way down to rule 8 - which isn't even a rule per se. I think that's a reasonable assumption to make, so with that in mind let's begin at the start.

"1) You must have the permission of your current Don/Godfather."

No doubt when Keith's Leader Donnie died, he gave permission to ol' Senor Gandor to 'fight the good fight' and 'tell them to "come at you", lad!' and so on. That being the case, Keith has already abided by the first and most important rule - and everything else is academic, surely?!

3) Nobody who is Extremely Well Protected, Obscenely Well Protected or Insanely Well Protected is eligible for this opportunity.

As Gandor has already stated, this can easily be construed to mean 'Only those who are below VWP are eligible to go into Vegas.' as easily as you construe it as 'Nobody who is EWP or above may set up in Vegas, ever.' It doesn't say either, this is frankly more open to interpretation than Monet's drunking ramblings on a Thursday afternoon.

4) There will be no outside influence from any individual from any other city - you're on your own!

I've decided to interpret this as 'whatever happens in Vegas will be dealt with internally as the Godfather Council won't get involved'. What? What's the matter with that? This does state things really really clearly. Normally, if I give a quote in support of my argument I'd expand on it, there's literally nothing to expand on here. Never did the GF council ever say they'd be getting involved to 'punish' wrongdoers; you've just gone ahead and assumed that.

Is it a reasonable assumption? Course, I'd probably do the same in your shoes - but it's an assumption nonetheless.

Fair play.

As I said elsewhere - you are welcome to your own opinion.

I'm simyply expression mine. I have no vested interest in Vegas either, as you can see I am walking these streets alone as we speak. (through my own fault, though)

I think a member of the GF council needs to come out and address this.

And by address, I don't mean tell us what they think, but whether or not collectively they feel that a rule has been broken or not.

Think they've answered that already in other places, Kriminal.

Keith hasn't broke a rule, simply used a grey area to his advantage. There are rumours of him having outside help, which would be a rule broken, but no-one has thus far been able to substantiate these claims and so they are nothing more than simple hear say and conjecture.

As it stands, I believe Keith has done nothing wrong, in the eyes of not only the Godfather Council, but other members of the community that have spoken on the matter.

For anyone who thinks the rules are broken here regarding KeithGandor... reread rule #2. Once he was permitted to leave to be a RH as a VWP person his further actions never applied to the above.

Anyone who calls him a rogue because he and his associates decided to use force from the start can refer to #8 as well.

Thanks.

So for pure clarity purposes.

Join lv as a hand

Take demotion

Buy yourself to iwp

Set up at made man and you are fine

You are not allowed to set up as EWP regardless of where the fuck you came from. There's no grey area of doubt here and it's not open to interpretation. It CLEARLY says nobody can set up as EWP.

The "opportunity" is setting up shop in las Vegas and "nobody" clearly means it doesn't fucking matter where you're from or what you were before the move.

Enforce the fucking rules you created or trash them all together, there's no fucking middle ground.

"I interpret nobody as...".....fuck out of here.

im with hola...by all means let your buddy defy the rules but dont try feed us shit and tell us its sugar

the guys dead anyway

You gotta at least acknowledge it's a very complicated situation.  He arrived in Vegas as a hand, VWP.  He became EWP after, no rule broken.  If he was the CL instead of a hand, this never would have come up. 

I understand that technically a rule was broken.  What was he supposed to do though?  Fight from the street without an HQ?  Go back to Chicago and tell you guys to lay off? 

I guess you guys are right though if you want to be technical.  He set up EWP.  But he already was in Vegas, and got to EWP only after being in a Vegas crew.  And I think that's the key. 

I think the format of this experiment is the real problem.  I think it will eventually be scrapped.  The way it's designed is just continual bloodshed.  I liked the old way better....no one can set up after a certain day, last man standing wins.  The way it is now you can just train wherever then come in and try to kill everyone.  Then someone will do it to you.  And more importantly, perhaps, as we see now, there is too much grey area when a handful of rules dictate months of unknown activity.

That's right, no rules were broken until he became a cl and went against the rules. You can bg up all you want AFTER you become CL and that's plain as fucking day to see.

His sob story is his sob story, should have read the rules and thought twice about joining someone with ten bgs to wage a war against a city.

The rules were laid out to make the playing field even. How the people who made them fucking forgot this beyond important fact is beyond me.

"I understand that technically a rule was broken. What was he supposed to do though? Fight from the street without an HQ? "

yes and i dont see how that would have been a problem since not having an hq just means you have lower defense but he was forbidden setting up because he had too high defense so they cancel each other out anyway so why not follow the spirit of the rule instead of opening up a huge loophole that will now be abused by everyone else that sets up in the future

that is just my opinion you can disagree

What about Los Angeles? Have they opened the books for more crews to setup out there? I haven't heard too much from LA as I have been hearing from LV.

Open cities are an issue that only the highest people in the populated cities discuss. In this sense, they are not open cities at all.