TimThomas calm down Fattyfats asked us for our opinion and I gave it to him

"Philly is sinking, can LotteBEssen save it? Your thoughts..."

It was clearly stated in the thread so?

Apologies Manic, I haven't addressed anything Gene has said yet due to focusing on Fats. I'll agree, Gene, that not being able to question anything in this world would make for a very bad place if you'll concede that there is a way of addressing the leader of a city and this is not it?

Manic, I feel that both Pharol and I have addressed this issue with our replies, which it seems have not been acknowledged. I've brought rank into this, because I believe a Wise Guy should not be questioning the Godfather of a city. Am I wrong on this? Do you think this is acceptable behaviour?

Pharol has made no mention of rank at all. Feel free to address his arguments if you feel like I'm getting too hung up on being a member?

Speaking of rank, I believe that those involved with the Godfather Council outrank everyone thus far in the conversation.

The Godfather Council obviously has enough faith in her as a leader for this to not be an issue for them, and it's not an issue for them, it's not an issue for you. Simple as.

Reiterating what's been previously stated, if you have questions about what's going on, how about you contact your city head for answers?

She was still in the wrong?

what else can she get away with because philly is still rebuilding? i have nothing against her or philly but what if someone else shot a young one? would you let them walk away?

Let me make this clear, I am not standing up there and pointing fingers/dismissing anyone due to their achived rank.

Be it a thug, be it a Consig... for anyone to call out the actions of the GF of another city in public and even worse call for them to step down...

That's is an egregious disrespect of every one of our honored GF's who have accepted the city leadership of LottaBEssen.

Back on my pappy's lap it was smacked in to me that there are some men and women in This Thing of Ours who you JUST DON'T call out or question their actions and leadership.

I have the utmost respect to them, and weight that they carry.

I agrre Tristan? I believe I have already said as much. I think both TimThomas and FattyFats have been as bad as each other and should face the same punishment as each other. Fatty started it. Tim then took it one step further with a completely misguided Street Thread which has made Philly, IMHO, look very very shoddy indeed.

While, seemingly the powers that be in Chicago do not see this to be some sort of heinous and unforgivable seen; calling into play the integrity and honour of the Godfathers.

If they did, I doubt they'd have opened the books and inducted Fatty into the organisation as a Made Man!

JasonBourne; Lotta offered compensation for her mistake. She was never trying to "get away with anything", as her gun took a step backwards when she shot him. She paid for it then, and she offered to pay for it when the next generation of that bloodline returned. Why do you need her to die for it to matter? We all know the consequence of shooting a -48, and anyone in Philly would be reprimanded for such an act.

Lotta didn't just "walk away" and as you can see from this speech, it hasn't been forgotten. At this point, you don't give a shit about the -48 and probably don't even remember his name, you just want to see someone pay for making the mistake. It's petty and disrespectful, and if your goal were to reach the most reasonable and best solution, you'd let this pass.

Pharol - get real, seriously.  A leader making a mistake - a lethal mistake - in full public view...  What happens to their credability? 

Gene_Hunt your right about the punishment

But Fattyfats just put a point out in the streets Im sure at least 10 of the people commented has written something in the streets that has annoyed someone.

And then TimThomas did the thread
What the f**k is going on in Chicago?

No what I think that is spamming

Get real? My mind is set on what's best for Philly. Killing LottaBEssen for this mistake is NOT what's best for Philly, and this has turned into a cheap excuse to get her to step down. Sure, take our credibility. Take our reputation. Those we can gain back. If you take Lotta, we will continue to be stuck in "rebuilding" for a goddamn eternity.

The city of Philadelphia appears to be lacking in discipline, honour and most importantly, leadership. Looking in from the outside the public image of Philly is that the city is in turmoil and doesn't really have a clue what it is doing. It seems happy to just survive and go on from day to day. This has been the problem with the city for a very long time. Lotta has a lot of work to do to bring shape and dignity back to the city. is she the person to do so? I would like to think so, i just can't.

So the only reason for not instilling a sense of honour and pride in Philly is that it would take longer to rebuild?

Not killing LottaBEssen.
Pharol I just said "step down"
Step down as Philly leader and come back when the heat dies down

i have no vendetta against anyone pharol i said this was my opinion so dont deem my views petty or disrespectful ok?

im just questioning people like you with your views on the rules put in place.

what would happen to you if you shot that youngster? would philly give a fuck about your excuse?

Mr. Thomas, surely you're not suggesting that we hold s mere Boss on the same level of a Godfather just because they happen to be the ranking member of a city. No matter what role you play in your day to day operations of your city the only way you can put yourself on the same level of a Godfather is to achieve the rank yourself. There's more to being a Godfather than just being the head of a city. It's a rank that signifies an extraordinary amount of work put in and the ability to achieve a longevity that many will never see.

As a city head you are apparently open to scrutiny from others in this new age of transparency. As a Boss you are not afforded the same luxuries as a Godfather even as a city head.

I apologise if I repeat what others may have already said, but I am going to reply solely to the original speaker.

First off, Cassi's decision to remain neutral was her own. Had it not been for Jade's unpredictable bloodlust and harboring out of this world grudges Cassi would not have died, it was nothing to do with her 'neutrality'. How many other Philly lives do you think would've been lost had she decided to plunge her city into a war that was not hers? Exactly. She made the best choice available to her city, and she paid the price. Her city, however, stayed safe.

As far as Tonks goes, she was removed because of her plot to take out Lotta. As far as being "uncoordinated, poorly executed" I would have to say that I disagree. In a takedown when you remove every target without a single loss of life on your side, I'd say that was a pretty fucking excellent takedown.

Possessed was a Made Man with Tonks, Tonks quite obviously wasn't fit to lead when she was producing that calibre of mafioso.

As far as the dead protected members go I would assume that those that weren't requested had the witness statements readily handed over, therefore negating any need for a witness statement request to be sent out at all.

Yes, Lotta made a mistake. She openly admitted it and offered compensation for that act. You know as well as everyone else that shooting someone who is still innocent and new to the world is detrimental to your gun, so it's hardly like she's sneakily killing off youngsters to better herself.

As far as the reasoning behind authing Cataclysmic, isn't that Lotta's decision alone?

I am sure if I had paid for a bodyguard, for his training and upkeep; to have these men who work closely with me every second of the day killed, would make me pretty pissed off too. Did he vent his anger in the wrong place? Sure. Did he then realise his mistake, and apologise? Yes. As far as your little dig about the way he signs his name, what is wrong with aspiring to be like someone as prominent in our world as Grin?

Your point with the Las Vegas situation is pretty pointless. You seem to be missing the part where they had to have Lotta's blessing to set up there. She had faith in them, they knew the risk they were taking and they wanted to see what they could make of an opportunity offered up to them.


But hey, what do I know? I'm just a Wise Guy.

~Pimp.

It seems that for a crew who's hands lines spent so long causing controversy they can't seem to help themselves. Guess it was expected at some point

i believe she didnt kill new comers to better herself...but she still broke the rules is all im saying?

I think its fair to say that Philly has had its fair share of turmoil the past few months. Whether it be through shear bad luck, bad advice or errors of misjudgements. Or as is most likely the case, a combination of all three

When the last and late Godfather Grif was handed the keys to the city together with the delightful Cassi and my father by his side, their was a sense of optimism, the feeling that something great could be achieved in helping grow Philly up to past glories. He held the respect of of his people, it was never commanded or expected, people had a real affinity to him. It was run as a tight ship with Grif well and truly at the healm

Then we he had the unfortunate gun malfunction, which sent a shudder through the city. There were whispers internally as to whether the city could recover, he was after all the go-to person for all aspects of city business, both internal and for city-to-city affairs. The city had lost its figurehead, its beacon of light

When Cass stepped up to the plate, i’ll admit I was at first skeptical as to whether she had the metal to handle the pressure of having the weight (of a then) well run city on her shoulders. After working very closely for her, beside her and on the end of some brunt discussions, I knew she could handle everything that was thrown her way. She had a steely determination that was unresolvable. And undoubtitly she deserved to be where she was

The city lost another two leaders during the Roman/Prem war  together will all of its biggest guns (at the time!), another major set-back which again put the city in a fragile state. Did this figure in Cass’s decision to remain neutral during the LA/LV war, possibly. Did she make mistakes, I think she’ll be the first to admit she did. Should she have organised protection for herself during the war, even whilst remaining neutral, absolutely. But I know she died protecting and doing what she thought was best for the welfare of the city, and I was personally sad to see her not make the GF status her dedication to the city deserved

I don’t claim to know Lotta all that well, my father worked with her during his time in the city, and always found her to be rather pleasant and nice to talk too. Do I believe she has the making to run a city, I have no idea. Its not my place to say. I always base the merits of a leaders quality on the decisions they make

Although I’ve been away on business for the past week so am not fully up to speed with the latest goings on. From accounts i’ve read and heard I  am slightly bemused, bewildered and left scratching my head at the events of the past week or so over in Philly, the city I had a real affinity for. I first though UndeadToms street ramblings where that of a drunken bum, as I have had never heard not seen of him before. Only to then find he is a RH to a city underboss.  Will Cataclysmic ever grace us with his presence on the streets to formally announce his family, I think that ship has sailed. Confirmation that he and the other city hands aren’t mute would be a nice start, to show some signs of strong leadership, to show something, anything.

Anything, apart from nonsensical rants about bodyguard shootings befitting a man with his suit. Or maybe he needs to think about why people are shooting his bgs in the first place, instead of misplaced vents of anger out on the street corner to passers-by

Why am I telling you all this. I’ll tell you why. In the aftermath of the Tonks takedown. The son of Grif, the bloodline who first went to Philly full of promise and vigour, who broke sweat and tears to give the city the opportunity it has today, decided to end his own life by his own gun. Without so much as a simple thank you at his funeral, albiet from myself and Cassiopia, the son and daughter of the people who stepped of the plane in Philly with him on that first day long ago, when the dreams of a city were well and truly alive

That to me is the biggest travesty to come out of Philly, and to me that speaks louder than any speech here today

Jax