-_- walks through the crowd assembling and chuckles at the man delivering his speech

I don't know if this has already been mentioned because to be honest I cannot be assed to listen to all this trash but LottaBEssen DID NOT demand blood when a Philly member was killed... my father was aware of an incident where compensation was given...

OH JUST LIKE HOW LOTTA OFFERED COMPENSATION TO THE -48S NEXT OF KIN

-_- out

clearly people dont listen then she still didnt get punished? hows about one of you kill a -48 see what happens? compensation shouldnt be neccessary for a crime that should NOT be committed 

On the issue of killing -48. It is a common and well documented rule that this is prohibitated in all cities. And is clearly posted in the rules on entrance to the city. There is no excuse for this happening by anyone of any rank

How the situation is dealt out is generally up to the city leader of the city where the killing occured. But would a gangster be handled in the same manner? I doubt it

Jax

If the appointed leader of a city "breaks a rule", who is supposed to punish that leader? I hear alot of huffing and puffing about LottaBEssen escaping punishment, but I have yet to hear anything about who is supposed to do the punishing. How do you "punish" someone who is superior in rank and stature to you?

I could suggest that the punishment comes from an outside source, like a leader from another city. That begs two questions: One, why would a leader in another city care about a murder in a Philly that is of no consequence to their own city or family? Two, ignoring the first question, if it would fall upon a leader in another city to punish the leader of Philly for something that affects neither their own city nor their family, why wouldn't the finger pointers be calling out the other leaders for their failure to punish, rather than calling out LottaBEssen for doing what a leader should do...which is giving everyone the finger and telling them to mind their own damn business?

I take no sides here, other than the side of logic, in which I am seeing a deficiency.

This was a nice speech Fatty. But as a Made Man of the city of Chicago, you are taking a big part as a voice and actor of your city. You come to the streets of ours while we are trying to rebuild and more importantly keep peace amongst our community, and you make slanders and accusations against the leader of Philadelphia. Now im a win, win person. I want the best for myself, but aswell as others. Now you say somethings about this person that I cannot agree or disagree with this person but I just come to talk about how you blatantly scold out on this persons leadership. She/he handpicked a chief to act on her behalf and you steep as low as to say this person only has this many threads and posts. This is the Mafia sir. Coming to these streets and talk about bullshit to get "your name" known is not wise in my perspective. We are here to make money and thats it. You want to gossip and tell stories, join a fucking book club. Now the streets are necessary. But only when the necessary needs to be spoken of. Now this was a good read my friend, and I thank you for the information you come with us today. But I think it's time to start acting like mafioso's and start having our mind in business and getting our money. That is all, thank you.

I take no sides here. Just pointing out some views.

The first important thing that should be stressed is that the individual governance of any city internally has not changed. Each Godfather will still be responsible for the well being of their cities and choose how they operate within them. Nobody from Chicago will be telling anyone from Detroit how to run their family, because it is no business of theirs. Each city has their own standards and their own requirements for their day to day operations which shall not be affected or influenced by the Godfather Council.

An excerpt from the agreement that was made between the Godfathers and yet just some hours after we hear someone from one city questioning the leadership of another city.

I was going to hold my tongue because this affects me directly as I work for Miss Lotta and the great city of Philly. But Atomic pretty much said what I'd like to in his comments. I will just share a few thoughts...

We may have had our ups and downs, just like you point out FattyFats. We are still rebuilding. We have never had an easy time since our late Godfather's gun malfunction. People stepped up because they had to. Not knowing the full damage of the city's displacement, Cassi pieced together a pretty well uniformed front. The loss of her Captains, and other highly ranked people truly hit the city hard. With Tonks setting up her own headquarters in Philly, this allowed for growth. Not much but the city grew.

You speak as if Cassi's decision was the ultimate demise of her. I can tell you, it wasn't. Why would anyone kill an innocent bystander who isn't partaking on either side? She ordered to hold shots and fly home to Philly as any good leader should. She was caught in the wrong place, at the wrong time. As she was slain, Philly was instantly in the battle between the two powerhouses. Lotta took control of the city and started giving out orders.

All I can say in my experience, when someone steps up to take the helm during a crisis, they show true leadership. Potential seemed limitless as Lotta strived to revenge the death of Cassi. She may have only ordered our men to shoot at Jade's bodyguards, but in the end, vengeance was served.

I'm not here to cover the common mistakes that Lotta has made, but I do want to say that accidents happen to the best of us. Especially when the light is upon us. Mistakes happen the one time when everyone is watching. They make us stand out like a sore thumb. A youngster was killed. Boo fucking hoo. It was taken over the top as if the deceased was a Made Man in a rival crew. She admitted her mistake, something most people do NOT do. And I respect that. And not because I have to since I work for her.

I'll end with this statement though...

You say Philly is a sinking ship, theres no true bear faith in this "ex-city" of ours. In the past 10 days I have seen Philly blossom into a beautiful rose. The current people working within the limits of it's borders are happy because if they weren't, someone would step on up. We may be slow at first, but we are quick learners and can defend ourselves. Just look at Caveman and his posse. I only hope that this city can continue on moving forward.

well i've seen alot of philly's folks suicide in last few days? why would that be?

Philly does need to sort itself out quick for it's members sake and i just dont see it happening with the current people in state...and does this mean if i get crew leader and shoot some silly little boy and admitt my mistake i'll be ok?

Maybe those few who did commit suicide decided this "thing of ours" wasn't for them. Maybe they got tired snatching purses from old ladies. Maybe they wanted more, and selfishly ended their lives. This life isn't for everyone.

If someone really cared about a mere Gangster being gunned down prematurely, someone worth a damn will voice their opinion or even act on it.

I'm sure you prematurely gotten off before Jason. No? I remember when I was twelve.

its not about caring its about simple rules.

oooops i just slipped and pulled the trigger some young whipper snapper is dead, ooooooh not to worry nobody gives a shit, the rules state against it but whaaaaat da heck im SORRY.

dont see where im coming from?

Do you think philly truly needs people like that?

Do I think Philly needs a person that will come out to the Streets for all to see, to confess that they did wrong? Sure. Why not?

Lotta paid a price. Not ultimately with someone being gunned down, where I think this is being leaned towards but Lotta paid a price.

Why do you even give two shits about this young whipper snapper anyways? Back in the old country, I have read my father's journals, a little Gangster being gunned down was as common as having drinks at the local Cabana Club and picking fights with poor civilians.

i dont give a shit about the gangster but being from the old country myself i believe in the principles of rules which are currently in place,they are there for a reason or we could all go around shooting gangsters without flinching.

maybe you should try taking up the philly hot seat? 

Maybe I should take up the hot seat?

No thanks. Reason being is that Lotta is doing a damn fine job. Many won't see it like we do. Thats only because they do not work with her on a daily basis. Thats all that should be said really. Everyone has dirty laundry to air. Its just being aimed at us right now.

As much as this conversation is flattering to continue on, is it really necessary to go on and on about this? Theres a good Irish Pub in Philly if you'd like to get a drink.

If all of you have such a hardon for Lotta being punished, why dont you stop whinning in the streets like children and take it to your leaders. Take it to the people who CAN do something. Whinning over and over in the streets about something that occured days ago isnt going to resolve the issue at hand.

Amen good sir.

This whole thing has made me laugh quite alot. I thank you all for entertaining me.

It also sets some interesting precedents for people dealing with Philly. Can the acting leader of Philly actually take a complaint to another city leader for any member of that city breaking rules and ask that they be killed for it?

Be it stealing an MIA or shooting a u48.

By Pharols own admission a slightly early shot is classed as over 15 mins. I think most would say that is well above and beyond the category of slightly early.

I haven't seen any "whining", I've seen people speaking and there is a big difference. Controversial topics usually make for the most entertaining discussions, which is probably why this has racked up so many contrasting opinions so quickly. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from speaking and if people start whining it'll be obvious. People asking questions and sharing opinions is a big part of what makes MafiaReturns interesting and for a lot of us, what keeps us coming back.

In regards to the killing of the -48 hour Gangster, does anyone actually care? No. They just want to get a reaction and put the thought into someone's head that things are going badly and that a Boss broke one of the basic rules that a Gangster would get killed for. Good. That is exactly how it should be. A Gangster is essentially a nobody holding no sway and little influence. Why should they get any preferential treatment? Conversely, a Boss, the head of a city no less, holds sway and influence. Why should they be treated like a Gangster? Obviously, they aren't.

LottaBEssen was a part of the Godfather Council so I would guess that they feel she is capable of leading Philly. The calls for a Made guy to be clipped or a Capo to drop because of what they have said in these and similar topics are also way wide of the mark. They too have earned some wiggle room and are we all so fucking sensitive that we can't address things that are being asked of us just because the person saying it cusses a bit? This isn't about respect or transparency, it is about not being a little bitch afraid of dealing with your actions and deciding what to do about it. FattyFats has an opinion on Philly, good for him. If LottaBEssen feels disrespected or Philly care enough about what he said, then they know how to deal with that and where we are. Equally, TimThomas has an opinion on Chicago, good for him. If we care enough about what he says or feel disrespected, then we'll speak with the Philly hierarchy and get it dealt with.

At the moment, I just see a lot of people hiding behind rank and dealing with a distorted perception of what is "allowed" and what isn't "allowed". Those people who actually responded to what FattyFats said, Pharol and PimpHand in particular, poked plenty of holes in his argument and really presented Philly in a positive light that their Bosses are probably proud as hell about. Most of the time there is no need to shout about rank and no need to cry about someone being merely a Wise Guy; just shut them the fuck up with logic and facts. Everyone wins.

(OOC: Whilst I agree that in reality it is extremely unlikely that a Wise Guy would question the actions of a Boss, it is also extremely unlikely that anyone would question the actions of anyone in public. Given the fact that this is a game first and foremost, sometimes I think it is better to be a little loose with the realism given where we are and what we're doing. Obviously I'm not saying we should have threads of "Fuck you Grin, you suck dick", but look how popular this thread is. Look how quickly and passionately people responded to it. I wouldn't want to discourage that because as Gene Hunt mentioned earlier, it would make our game a lot more boring)

Funeral visits? The unsponsored folks that died were worth about as much as a crew IA, unless they joined a PH family. Do you visit the funerals of your inactives? Your NPMs? Didn't think so.

How you treat people in death can be seen as an indicator of how you treat people who are alive. If they were seen as valuable enough to become an associate in the first place or maybe even inducted into the inner workings of a Philly family, then they are seen to be an extension of Philly, in life and death. Its completely irrelevant whether they are in a deep sleep or not. To dismiss them out of hand shows a complete lack of respect in how you view your city members It shouldn’t be about whether their “worth your time”, its doing the decent thing. How hard is it really to stop by at a funeral to say a goodbye and thank you, its lazy and shouldn’t be encouraged. The comment about NPMs is irrelevant

That means that time that Cata could've spent arguing with you in the Streets, instead was spent caring for the family he was in charge of in Tonks' absence.

I’m sorry but I call bullshit on this one. Using Tonks absence as an excuse for a lack of street presence is a load of hogwash. If he or anybody else for that matter doesn’t want to come to the streets, thats fine, its their perogative. He may well be a good leader behind the HQ wall, and thats great if that how he wants to lead his family, its not mine or anybody else’s business to get involved in. But please don’t try and validate the fact that he can’t be bothered coming to the streets by saying he was caring for a family

If the appointed leader of a city "breaks a rule", who is supposed to punish that leader? I hear alot of huffing and puffing about LottaBEssen escaping punishment, but I have yet to hear anything about who is supposed to do the punishing. How do you "punish" someone who is superior in rank and stature to you?

The responsibility is down to the city leader where the -48 killing occurred to ensure that their city rules are adhered too at all times, and dish out punishment for failing to comply to these rules, which everybody happens to agree to on entrance to the city. Should the city leader in question felt it was appropriate to kill Lotta for her mistake whilst visiting their city, then they would of been within their rights to do so. As it is, it seems compensation was sufficient in this case and the matter put to bed

hurley if you think im whinning please...sit down i was viewing my thoughts about the situation which just so happens to differ from your's fyi dealll wiv it.

i might check that pub out Mikey boy im sure we'd have alot to chat about i think my father worked with you not so long ago