So last night we saw STL attack NY, the reason, well that's information I am not privy too, although like most of us we have heard rumours and such. I am not here to bitch about the take down as I frankly couldn't give a shit and no, my father, mother, granny or any of my line were killed along with NY I was a mere bystander, watching on from the safety of the coffee shop.

My issue today is those who jumped to a new city the first sight of trouble and not just any members but made members of NY, members who have been trusted with such an honour, One was even RHM to a Crew Leader who lost his life last night. What I found pretty hard to swallow was, the members who jumped the sinking ship that was NY, didn't even try to visit the coffee shops that housed the remaining NY'ers who were trying to mount a fight back, they didn't offer there help they didn't even offer an explanation as to why they would be going to other cities, some even moved over to the opposed side.

Now my question is how and why has this been allowed to happen, surely if the warring side, STL in this case should have the balls and conviction to not offer anyone made + a lifeline and finish what they started. Same goes for a certain CH family. Im not going to go down the route of, "in the olden days this wouldn't have been allowed" but surely this is logical, surely those with made man status, no matter if they desert the city that housed them everyday, should not be allowed to live, its standard common practice.

Personally taking in a member in such circumstances doesn't set a good president for the individual and the new city they went running too and should be vetoed under every single rule that we set for ourselves in this world, hypocrisy is rife at the moment.

Again my views are purely based from an outside view, no bias on my part shadows my judgement, its simply rules that we always lived by. Ok circumstance sometimes overrules how we run this thing, I get that but in this instance its not as if it was isolated, more than one deemed this action appropriate and for me, its unforgivable and shouldn't be something this world just turns a blind eye too.

I will now of course provide some 'clarity' here.

Chicago let in one of NY's people mid war.

St Louis should now war Chicago, for this act of defiance!

That is what Alf is really saying

No, not at all, thats you putting dirty words in my mouth, with the agenda of turning this speech into something it was never menat to be.

It was a speech on ethics, morals and rules, none of the above you gave "clarity" too, your slandering words are lost on me here, if you cant address this speech with proper tact and reply with proper content then i have no interest in listening.

Thats exactly what you are saying kind sir. I wouldnt dare slander anyone.

You are calling out Chicago for housing a member of NY during an active war, specifically a RHM or LHM. Furthermore, you speak of how this never used to be allowed. So, should this be tended to now, St Louis should fire on this person, who is now of Chicago, which is an act of war.

I hit the button on the nose, as it were

Alf, I won't get into what yourself and Gladiator are discussing. I will say however that this is the mafia - rules are bent, twisted and shaped to suit by those in power.

If we're being honest though, there are no set 'rules' that we live by. We make the mafia what it is, if the Godfather Council decided that there would no longer be any 'rules' anywhere and this became one massive free for all, then those would be the new 'rules'. If you plan on arguing that they couldn't do that, take a look at Las Vegas.

In essence what I'm trying to say is, those with power make the 'rules' as they see fit. If you don't like it... well, do I really need to finish that sentence?

It was a speech on ethics, morals and rules... all things that are not set in stone in this thing of ours. The strong people of the day make or break the rules, bend them or even completely avoid them. What you might perceive as ethical for me could be a foolish sentiment or what for you could be a rule for one could be nothing more but a nonsense that could be easily overlooked. That's how it is and how it always will be.

If I could allow myself to quote an author unknown "If you dont like it, rank up and change it".

your wrong on every level. your blurred one dimentional vision is leading you to this way of thinking, im not asking or implying and such motion, i was asking and displaying my oppinion and such events, what ctl and ch do, if they do is simply thier own business, i have no power to force thier hands and i dont want too.

Its more than me saying... STL should war CH and its your lack of not wanting to listen that brings you to this summary. Not your powers of observation.

Again i will stress, i didnt want to turn this into a match of who can call each outher out better, it was a question a statement of discontent from my part.

Didnt KuKu say discontent alot?

I digress..

He also taught us, a great many things.

.. or at least many things. One of which is, read between the lines. The only conclusion drawn here is you calling out one city for harboring a fugitive and another to man up and finish it proper.

As the other pretty faces here note, history is written by those who stand above the bodies when the smoke clears. If you disapprove, then perhaps you should team up with EvilClown and his posse to stealth out St Louis for not doing what it takes like people in the old days would!

kuku, i am not and i can assure you, i dont have a short memoray and repeat things like he did. i dont need to stealth up, nor do i feel the absolute need to change it, again missing the whole point to the speech.

in repsonse to everyone, hypocrisy is word that sums up all actions. We hated the hypocrisy roman presented us with, we hated how the rules always were bent in his favour and i have been around long enough to understand that those in power make the rules but in saying so there are certain rules we dont touch and certain rules whe shouldnt bend, simply because we can.

I didnt say i wanted action to come out of what my original speech was aimed at, as i said it was a none biased view, my view one that i felt the need to share, yet like very single speech, most are quick to jump on and turn it into this back and forth match.

I know you are not KuKu lol. Hitch is. He's on the street behind you ranting about.. well i dont know, bunnies creating a new world order.

Your arrogance is frightful, im not trying to creat anything it was a simple observation, one that required well thought out answer's, it wasnt a free for all to jump on me, accussing me and clarifying it for something it wasnt.

anyway, thats my thoughts on it. it was as simple as that.

If you didn't want people to give their opinions why give the speech in the streets?

Either way, I didn't see my response as 'jumping on you', or Kpacc's for that matter.

There is a difference than giving an oppinion, a well thought out response, like you did, then there is jumping on someone for the sake of doing so, anyway that comment was not directed at you.

no matter, no wonder the streets lay barron. anyway im done.

And something else I meant to mention; You played a great big hand in turning this into a back and forth. If you'd simply taken a step back and realised that how you write something isn't always how it is interpreted you could have avoided the petty arguing. In all fairness it does seem that you have just tried to draw attention to the fact that someone from NY joined Chi, for whatever reason. Maybe this was how you intended it, maybe it wasn't. All Gladiator did was point out how it appears to all of us.

If you had only conceded the fact that this was how it appeared, and maybe even apologised for that (shock horror) then you wouldn't have been reduced to this. Perhaps even learn for next time to not name cities, and just approach something in a very generalised format as to avoid offending people, which surely can't be a good first step for someone fresh off the boat.

I thought he was implying that said Made Man who jumped ship Mid war should be killed, not the family he joined? That would be the logical outcome for the turncoat.

I'm a little confused to why the gods felt the need to remove what people said here from all of our memories. It just makes the replies make no sense.

Unless I missed something, the lone made man who moved to another city and set up was promptly killed within minutes. Despite the fact that she had reassurance from a Godfather that she was safe, someone else took it upon themself to shoot her. Why that happend, I dont know, but it happened. As for people moving into other cities, their respective CLs and Godfathers approve it, we're nobodies to question it.

Rags there was more than one who moved, a few infact, your right who are we, hierachy alone should stop me questioning it but in saying that i feel its a free world to express a concern, issue, or a feeling towards a specific subject, i can be told to STFU and i would accept such a kind gesture.

I will question anything i feel i need to, all beit it will be done respectfully.

I personally believe you should go down with the ship unless you're just a few days old.  I know most feel if you have not made your bones with said family, then you really have no true loyalty but I feel from the time you accept an invite you are there until your leader tells you otherwise.  But as someone stated before me, the rules are made to be bent and those in power can bend them as they see fit and that's that!  There will be some that can remember a long time back when Godfather Deimne was removed from power.  There were a few that jump ship then, in fact one went on to become one of the, if not the, most powerful Godfather we have ever seen.  I remember a street speech then when most of the community was defending this move?   I suppose sometimes it's not all "Who is in power and allows it", but who the particular "ship jumper" it is.

I think that its a given that ANYONE who has become made or higher goes down with the ship i know personaly i could not trust someone that thinks fuck we are getting slaughtered i am outta here. If i ran a crew that is not who i want at my side personaly, Though i notice wiseguys and under seem to be fair game but they take in button men or offer lifelines strange, Wiseguys and such i think can be given benifit they havent made there bones but above that rank nah the ships sinking son start shooting i could never turn my back on the leaderr city that has made me who i am the city dies i die simple as you get.