I am surprised that nobody has even mentioned the central issue and key flaw to this plan of Grin's. He was promoted to Made Man within a family in Las Vegas as I understand it. He then proceeded to leave the family without permission. Anyone ranked Made Man and above will know that becoming Made is a great honour and it is a pledge to the family itself. Leaving the family to set up your own family in a new city off your own back isn't something that should ever be acceptable from a Made Man. That is why Made Men who leave families without permission are known as rogue.

Grin, I love your premise and general idea. You push the boat out, justify it and it does sail most of the time. This time, I felt obliged to point out the obvious fact that everyone else had clearly overlooked.

Sheldon, I do believe Grin promoted himself after leaving LV and setting up :)

Actually, when there is a vacant city you can buy a HQ at Wise Guy.

I left Las Vegas before I was Made. I took no oaths and made no vows.

I was Made in New Orleans, latterly renamed to Grinatopia.

long live grinatopia and the free minds who control it

Just goes to show. I retract my statement. Continue.

It's an interesting thing that has happened here. However, it is just the mechanics of this thing of ours. Lets face it, you made yourself, you took no vows. In my view you are not a button man and you are not untouchable in the way a made man is.

Nothing new here. Just another gripe it's okay for the cool kids to bring up, but others are shunned for speaking their minds.

Kerouac

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree. Maybe not "see eye to eye" on these matters. To me, an "auth" as they call it meant a man of "La Costra Nostra" as they call it is "authorized" as they call it to an authorization in their city. This is what is known as an "auth". I see none of this here. All I see is the acts of a "renegeade" trying to "do his own thing" so to speak.

Perhaps some day we will see things done properly around here. Until then, I will continue to do things my way, "the right way" around here,

I am surprised that nobody has even mentioned the central issue and key flaw to this plan of Grin's. He was promoted to Made Man within a family in Las Vegas as I understand it. He then proceeded to leave the family without permission. Anyone ranked Made Man and above will know that becoming Made is a great honour and it is a pledge to the family itself.

Couldn't agree more, Sheldon. A clear-cut example of "setting the wrong example" for others.

Grin, you may tend to "push the boat out" as they call it from time to time as they call it but you're setting a piss-poor example for everyone else. (old-school guys know what I mean by "everyone else")

While Grin may have taken an extreme way to do it, it appears that what he is really doing is bringing the plight of the empty cities to the forefront. I commend him for that even though this is an unorthodox manner which was bound to fail.

If you want to bring forward things that no one else has mentioned. Then I think I shall do the same.


How many of you have been privy to private discussions between the city heads and Godfather? How many of you know for a fact that the empty cities aren't talked about between us? How many of you know for a fact that plans were not already in motion for the empty cities?

Well, only the Godfathers, City Heads and their trusted advisers would know the answer to any of those questions.

The only difference is now that Grin has made a very public demonstration regarding the fact, it is now at the fore front of every ones mind and arguments.

Oh I get it UA. He is like those people I heard about who set themselves on fire. Since no one listens to them, and they feel insignificant and powerless in society, they do this extreme act they know will kill them in the hopes someone somewhere will finally listen to what they have to say. Obviously Grin was not in a position to bring this to the forefront in any other way, or he would have.

Yes, sir, setting yourself on fire and drawing a crowd is a good comparison :)

Brucie thinks on this for a minute, then replies.

Well then I think Grin should change his crew name to something more descriptive. Its not a utopia Grin, try this:

The Immolators!

To address a few things quickly:

How would any of us know what the plans are for anything unless we are told? We wouldn't, unless we were in the shoes of the people you've identified. In the absence of this information, we can only proceed on what we can see; auth after auth in the same cities with Detroit and Grinatopia left to rot. You can use our lack of knowledge to say that there are plans in the works for these cities, but the evidence speaks for itself, planned against or not, these are still empty, whilst others get diluted.

As for setting myself on fire to bring this to the fore, I don't think offering to put to use a forgotten city and pay those in charge is exactly the same as that. Given that we are about business and earning money, I think earning $3,000,000 per week where I am previously earning nothing is quite appealing.

The Immolators is a cool name though, I'll keep that for next time.

I came back here with the hope of seeing yet another rise of the great Statue Of Bearderus, and all I'm left with is your rotting corpse.

Totally disappointing.

ThomasHarrow retires once again to the shadows... continuing on the legacy of failure that now engulfs his family name

We've been here for awhile now that plans are being discussed about the vacant cities. Any time its mentioned, its swept under the rug. Stop talking about it, act upon it. Having two cities with no criminal enterprises control the streets is bad for our way of life. Everyone knows that.

Now why is it bad for our way of life Marcus?

What effect does it have on you as an individual or your family?

Does it effect the drugs prices? Nope

Does it mean you earn less money when you commit a petty crime or a felony? Nope

Does it mean you earn less money when you are involved in an organised crime? Nope

I am at a loss as to why it would be bad for our way of life.

Now why is it bad for our way of life Marcus?

Why is it good for our way of life?

What effect does it have on you as an individual or your family?

As a member of this thing of ours, it makes my visits to these citys less profitable, the lack of criminal activity means there are less wholesale drug stores to procure goods for sale on our high street. There are also less gambling establisments for me to throw money into.

Does it effect the drugs prices? Nope

Well Yes, as there are no local drug labgs. Sure the market price is fine, but that extra bit of profit from buying direct for the lab and re-selling to the market is certainly missed.

Does it mean you earn less money when you commit a petty crime or a felony? Nope

Crime is of course still the same, for us. The money however is falling deep into a black hole instead of being re-invested in the community. Each crime we commit we give a portion to whomever runs the criminal activity in the district, granted currently only PoisonousJelly and DeadlySin receive this, all other cities are sadly void of any Godfather. New Orleans and Detroit will likely be void of one longer than the others, given the fact no criminal activity currently resides in these cities.

Does it mean you earn less money when you are involved in an organised crime? Nope

Yes, as there are no local criminals to organise the criminal activity with. Often we could be left with few, or none, to organise with. The more criminals available, the higher crime we can risk and therefor the more money can be made.

I am at a loss as to why it would be bad for our way of life.

I hope your loss is a little less so now, though I can understand not everyone shares the opinion that having all 7 cities thriving with activity is good.

You make perfect points there Slash, but at the end of the day, what goes on in another city should be none of your concern. Your hole is in Las Vegas and you do best with your time there. Travel? Sure, do yourself a favor and see the world if it pleases you. But at the end of the day, the one vouching for a wise guy should be the only one upset about his relocation. Instead of a cross country ploy to rally up the forces and remove this "threat". Would hardly call Grin a threat though. If deemed so, I'm terribly devastated at the state of any individuals paranoia considering how people tend to keep tabs on anothers progress.

How you figure in that the lack of activity in all 7 cities is still good activity baffles me though. Several active cities is far better than four. Simple math really. Most of us aren't educated and land up in this life of crime so I'll let this one slide.

I would have voted a solid yes in allowing him to make something of himself there. Before anyone starts throwing out the chants of "Grin fan" loosely, Grins bloodline and mine have only spoken on a single occasion which ended in a shootout.

Props for taking the initiative in trying to make it in the land of the free, Grin. Free? Sure...

What most of you seem to have forgotten, is that if someones actions does not effect your business, then you have no business getting involved. Godfathers these days flatter themselves with the notion that they have their hands in everyones pockets. Wish it were the case. Would make things far more interesting. Cities are open, sit down and make things happen.

You may go ahead and throw my rank at me and tell me how my opinion shouldn't matter. Then go home and think about it before you go to bed at night.