RHM / LHM = Made Man

We all know since the beginning you can have whoever you want as your RHM or LHM, what ever the rank. But until you make Made Man + you aren't "fully" in the family, you are an associate. Having someone who is within the family circle answer to someone who is an associate to the family kind of defeats the object of being within the family. In the real world (and yes I understand this is a game) you wouldn't find this happening. To be so high up in the family, given so much responsibility, surely your rank should give you that possibility. And not say a gangster being the RHM. Wouldn't it be better / possible to change it so until you get within the family, you can't have that opportunity? I'm not here to try and get myself RHM. It is simply a suggestion to make it a little more realistic. Your views are more than welcome. I did try searching for this suggestion but nothing came up. I apologise if my mobile just isn't letting it find what is already there.

Wow copy and pasting from my iPhone notepad has made that look a mess.

Sorry.

The position of RHM is one that requires great trust in the person. That kind of trust isn't built up with 1 account but from a long relationship with that person that goes beyond the current characters. If anything anyone who is given RHM/LHM should be given a pseudo rank of Made Man which is for appearance only and doesn't give any of the rank boosts.

But if you say so, it kinda defeat the real motive of meeting a new people and just stayed with the same person until he/she retire or not playing anymore? Besides if that the case, the old player has massive advantages over new player due to the longer timeline that he/she had build his status around the society. From my point of view, I'm against this type of easy mindset. Everyone said and seem to believe once you're dead , the stories,the character and wateever related to that character went down to the river. So with the deceased kid/daughter to came back and braging about their father/mother last char is simply irrational, when you're dead then you're dead and you suppose to start new, not continuing the previous character. Thats the way admin intended this game to be, I suppose? But with the way we're playing now, I see  our userbase keep shrinking   everyday with some of us retiring and never come back and the same old school guy with different name hanging around , without new player coming in to balance the in/out . That all my 5 $

KissMyArse has hit the nail on the head with what I was trying to get at.

As he basically said. Capping it at a Made Man (inner circle the way it is ment to be) your RHM dies, it forces you to make new relations with the people you have trusted bringing in to your inner circle, your Made Men and above.

I also totally understand why people use their usual friend as RHM, but surely they had to build this trust in the first place? What's stopping people using the actual ranks and creating more relations with your family.

"That kind of trust isn't built up with 1 account but from a long relationship with that person that goes beyond the current characters."

not to nitpick, but surely that attitude is counter productive to a Mafia RP game? We are all supposed to playing a different character from account to account, IRC or IRL friendships should not come into this

C'mon. Playing a different character makes no sense as every time someone dies, their new account is the previous's son or daughter and it all happens in the 30's. Besides, the threads in the streets are far from roleplaying, all being speeches on milk cartons.

Well yeah, but they shouldn't be so and so's so's and daughters, they should be entirely new characters...

I'm just thinking this gives everyone a chance, plus helps widen the community instead of a circle of friends.

Let's face it, someone may take a new player as a RHM but once their longtime RHM reaches Made Man, they will simply appoint him/her again. There's no escaping this.

Maestro that is fair, that is up to the clan leader. But it still gives the opportunity of that new person doing a great job and staying in that position.

I think this is one of those things that people cling on to more because it is the way it has always been rather than for any legitimate reason.

If you don't know anyone capable who is Made Man and above, maybe you need to broaden your horizons.

Plus, this could serve as something of a small deterrent against demotion for BGs which I'm in favour of.

Thank you Grin. It just seems more logical to have someone who is in the family circle as the underboss.

It takes time to build up a level of trust with someone that you would put in these positions. And it goes both ways. It shouldn't just be up to the CL to work at building a level of trust with those that are surrounding them, those people also have to show that they are capable and trustworthy. I've had some people argue with me that if they were trusted enough to be brought into the family and given a button, they should be trusted enough with a hand position. I do not believe the two equal each other in any way. Being brought into the family doesn't mean that you are or should always be privy to the information that comes across the bosses desk on a daily basis. It doesn't mean you are or should be invited into coffeeshop talks that happen between the boss and other upper structures. It means the boss trusts you enough to bring you on board to learn more things in the business. It means the boss trusts you to handle more responsibility, that you can conduct yourself in a manner that represents the crew in a positive way. It doesn't mean that every single one of them is capable of handling a crisis that may come up or handle delicate situations that often time arise.

I do not agree with limiting CL's options of people that can place into hand positions. They earned their position of CL by their hard work and dedication, they should be able to choose to bring along whomever in their journey without their decision being questioned. I can see if many leaders were constantly placing incompetent people into these positions, but it's been shown time and time again they aren't. I don't feel like this is an issue that needs to be dealt with in code form. If people feel this way, then when they are in this position they can uphold their beliefs and only choose hands that are Made and above.

I agree in spirit with Cassi - I'm not really for limiting a leader's options when it pertains to their most basic management structure. I think it's up to the user to determine whether having a meager-ranked RH is a family they wouldn't mind joining. I really don't thin shrinking the options of a crewleader's own internal structure would make much, if at all, of a difference in the game.

I agree that leaders should appoint hand positions to only Made Man+. That said though, its not always an option.

I will be sponsoring this as its something I personally believe in, however I don't expect it to reach a positive vote due to the nature of it, far too many people differ on this subject and its highly unlikely that any vote will fall in favour of the idea.

It takes time to build up a level of trust with anyone and I agree that not everyone who receives a promotion to Made Man and beyond is capable of being a RHM/LHM. Equally however, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect someone who is a leader to have a trusted associate capable of being a RHM/LHM who is ranked Made Man or above. They have had plenty of time prior to being given the nod to lead a family to build up their contacts and this should certaintly include some actual family members.

In terms of limiting the CL's options, yes, this would reduce the choice a touch. However, it is a logical reduction based on the hierarchical nature of the Mafia, which is what we are trying to emulate. The RHM is the second most senior ranking member in the family, not one of the lowest.

In terms of pretty much any examination, this falls down. Does anyone know of any actual Mafia families where the RHM/LHM weren't fully fledged members of a family?

I still feel that if it had always been the case that you could only select RHM/LHM who were Made Man or above, people would not have a problem with this.

I'm with grin.

I also agree that this seems to not change simply because it has always been so. For me, that's not a real answer. Limiting the Cls choices, ok, i understand the issue. But I do not like the fact the people use past characters as an indication of future performance. Fact is, every time you die, you become a new character. the son is not the father, and should not be treated as such. So for me, unless you, this edition of you, has proven him/herself, to me, your not trustworthy. I don't care what your daddy did, I only care what you have done.

so i say make it made+ only. bring that element of reality back, give more people a chance, and keep it real.