Quite frankly, I don't think you need a substantive argument for why they shouldn't be. Keep in mind that rank times have been lowered and at one time, achieving made man took far more work and more than double the time it does today. It was simply practical to continue to use the same person after they died rather than choosing a one or two month fill-in as they ranked up. There also seems to be an assumption that this person will undoubtedly rank in 11 days and hence it "isn't that big of a deal". That isn't true, either, and the only reason why crewleaders can't appoint their hands a higher rank than the one they have is because they're unable to. Do you think the crewleaders themselves view their earner or wise-guy hands as someone who has the merits of a Made Man? Undoubtedly. That's all that matters. Again, there has been no mutiny or mass complaints over the several years of game history that revolved around the rank of someone's internal crew structure - something that should never be shaped or manipulated by outside structure.

The game has never had requirements for a right-hand man. Why do you think that is?

And, on one last matter:

There is a limit to which our authenticity can be taken and allowances have to be made for the nature of the game and the very fact that it is a game. I think there should be an allowance for people to rank in a manner that isn't strictly conventional rather than people reaching a glass ceiling. I don't however think it is a stretch to say that people below Made Man are not sufficiently qualified to serve as either RHM or LHM. 

 

I'm not sure how you can justify essentially the same argument on an astronomically higher spectrum and condemn it in cases of the lower.  You can't have it both ways.  We can either shoot for full authenticity here, or concede that things are never going to be in a perfect hierarchy due to the simple fact that this is an online game where our community will, for better or worse, win out over a roleplayed rank - for all practical, impractical, logical or illogical reasons.  

I think if the suggestion is to change it and the reasons for changing in are substantial, you definitely need a substantive argument against it if you don't wish to see it changed.

I find it difficult to believe that a leader cannot find someone they trust enough to be RHM within 11 days.

How the leader views the person is at odds with what they are, which is the problem. They aren't Made. They haven't been Made yet. I would strongly disagree with how the leader viewing them being all that matters, because that invalidates the ranking structure.

There are plenty of things the game never used to have that it has now. The reason I suspect is because the coders then weren't as concerned with authenticity as we are now. I am still strongly of the view that if it had always been that you needed to be Made Man to be a RHM or LHM, then nobody would have a complaint about it.

We must make allowances for where we are and the medium through which we attempt to emulate the Mafia, but we should always try to create as authentic a Mafia experience as possible. We tolerate the unrealistic killing of 1000s of IAs because it enables the game to function. Same as with 10000s crimes, jail busts and speaking in the Streets. These things require a detour from realism as otherwise we wouldn't have a worthwhile game. Selecting a RHM of a sufficient rank on the other hand, doesn't seem worth compromising on because the advantages from detouring from reality don't outweigh following it.

With that said, I have actually been considering the virtues of a leader's choice of RHM determining their minimum rank. So, if they are a Thug, by selecting them as RHM their rank would change to Made Man. They would still have the stats of a Thug, but at least they would show as a Made Man and then the argument of them not even being in the family is gone. It would also appease those who select a RHM, however wrongly in RP terms, on the basis of their past experience as they can still choose their chosen candidate, they would just get Made.

The downside to that is that they would then not have to go through 11 days of making their bones and gaining experience, but I think it would be preferable to having a Thug as RHM.

I totally agree with the initial idea.

I find it difficult to believe that a leader cannot find someone they trust enough to be RHM within 11 days. - Grin

Shouldn't be to difficult at all, if you try that is! I seriously believe implementing this suggestion will benefit the game, so maybe I should make a blunt statement here, because people clamp on the 'trusted'-RHM idea like a dog with a bone.

"If you can't find a suitable RHM or LHM among your made men, you are missing an important quality to be a leader and you are not fit to be a leader at all?"

....

A bit shortsighted you think?

People make mistakes, so do you! If you appoint a 'Made' RHM and after a few days you don't trust him anymore, you can relief him of the position by one click of the button. What's the big deal people, change isn't neccesarily a bad thing.

IMO IF this was implimented that is exactly what would happen all too often. If a CL is unable to promote their desired choice as a hand because they aren't made then they would appoint a temp hand until their choice is made.

This ***could*** have the detrimental effect that a hand is less significant rather than made is more important. Also this from a RP point of view is absurd.

If it's a big deal for a CL to have a trusted RH or LH, you just have to wait 11 days. Like Grin said, you don't really need one until your family grows bigger. The largest Detroit family has 11 members and set up 10 days ago, which means they could have a Made RH and/ or LH tomorrow in the new situation I don't see the problem here.

Personally I disagree I think it is of the upmost important in a small growing family to have at least one hand, prefereably two as this is where you lay your foundations as a family and the crew needs maximum contact with the community for the maximum % of the day, most especially in the early few days.