I can't possibly know all the internal stuff that has gone on here but, from an outsider's point of view, one thing is clear. Either the people under SquidMaster had no honor and loyalty or SquidMaster simply didn't have the loyalty of the people under him because there was no response when he was gunned down. You can believe if my Godfather were gunned down that I would be turning my guns, however ineffective they may be, on those that pulled the trigger. Maybe I'm just an antiquated relic from a time where you hold your oath over your own personal safety and honor means more than a long life.

"As Lilac stated Chicago was perched and ready for war so the proof is in the pudding that Chicago was ready to back Squid then."

That couldn't be any more false. When Squid told us about war because of his reasons, we all agreed not to back it because it was suicide. We did that to protect the city and it's people. 

"He told us that all was well after a considerable period of to-ing and fro-ing, having us perched and ready for a possible war - and most of the time, we didn't even know which direction it would be coming from. Clearly, all was not well and we were not privvy to that fact, even though for most of us, our gut instinct told us differently."

Even though they may have disagreed with the reasoning, they were still perched and ready after a considerable period of to-ing and fro-ing.

They don't seem like actions of people who had all agreed not to back it because it was suicide.

Countdown, you seem to be examining my words very closely. I'd go as far as to say nitpicking.

I respect that you are trying to defend the honour of your late leader, but I would remind you that you now have a new and very much alive leader. I'd be keeping that in mind when making these street speeches.

I am fully aware of who my new and very much alive leader is now, whatever that means?

I'm not nitpicking, so far the majority of reaction in Chicago has been to save face, but in doing so defacing the legacy of your former Godfather. I've no problem with you trying to defend your position Lilac it's something you are perfectly entitled to. But when people desecrate the name of the man who moulded me into what I am, you can't seriously expect me to sit back and let it fester here?

I am fully aware of Squid's plans too, only I don't mind admitting that I was willing to follow him into the fire if he gave the word last week, no matter what cost that may be to me then... or now. He never asked that of me, so here I still stand. He is gone now and as you have stated, I have found a new leader, who I would follow into the fire if HE gave the word. Why can't others just admit it too? Again... I can only think of one reason. Self preservation.

I keep hearing ".. puts me, my CL, and members of my city in danger..." repeatedly by CH members and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what usually happens when the Head Honcho in charge wants to go to war? - FrankSinatra

This is not the case Frank, any good leader would go to war knowing that they would win that war with little casualities. Now going to war knowing that your whole city would be wiped out, that is just putting your city in danger.

Now for all the other arguments that are going on here, well let me say this, Squidmaster became one of my best friends in this thing of ours and I respected him as a leader and a Godfather. Now he came to me saying that there was a possibility of us 'having' to go to war with another city. He told me and another couple of fellows, we all said that if that were the case that we would fight and back him up. - So if that answers anybodies questions, good. We did not want to go to war but we would back up our godfather if we had to go to war.

Now as for everyone saying about the lack of retalitation because of what happend? That stopped the minute Squidmaster let us shoot his forts and told everyone that he was going to retire. Now I am saddened by the fact that he did not go out the way he wanted. Though what do you want us to do? Go and die because of someone who was already giving up on us?

I asked the man a couple of times not to retire, I told him I would support him even if he wasn't as active as he usually is and I would have went to the grave with him if a war that we could not win had of came upon us.

So because one man who was going to die anyway didn't die the way he wanted to, I'm supposed to go out and die because of that?

So tell me this? Does that mean that I am not loyal? Does that mean I am a bad friend?

I can see where Countdown is coming from, he became closer to Squidmaster than maybe most of the people on here, it's hard to push on when something like that happens and it's the same for me.

Vince...

*tips hat*

In fairness to Countdown he had a very much alive leader in SquidMaster and when when that leader was gunned down he has heard nothing from the people around him except excuses as to why they've accepted their Godfather being gunned down with no response. So now he has a new leader..but for how long? How long until this leader calls upon his people to put themselves at risk only to find that they've chosen self preservation above all?

Now I'm not saying that's actually the case here. That's just how it looks to the naked eye. I can understand Countdown's hesitation to sign on for that. If it is the case I would suggest that he just keep quiet and wait because eventually it'll be his turn to be the leader.

Can I just reiterate something here? Our issue did not stem from whether or not we were going to go to war. Obviously, if we had been given that instruction, we would have had to follow regardless of opinion.

Our issue pertains to the altogether different matter of how the late SquidMaster conducted himself - as a Godfather - to other people in this thing of ours; behaviour which then put us in jeopardy that we didn't even know about. That was the crux of it and what ultimately led to his undoing. It was nothing to do with whether there would or would not be war, so let's just put that one to bed right now.

As for lack of response, let me point out that Godfather Phil_Steak came out here and explained events. Don SpaceCowboy then followed suit. That hardly qualifies as a lack of response, unless of course by 'response' people mean opening fire and causing needless multiple casualties.

I am not slandering the name of my former Godfather. I have stated clearly that he was a man I had enormous respect and admiration for. He did a great many things for the city of Chicago and afforded me a wonderful opportunity. Just because I see the difference between what is right and what is wrong does not deter from that fact.

The other part of it is how the stories being presented to the people don't seem to jive. I mean I'm hearing that some of the most powerful members of Chicago allowed another city to gun down their Godfather because of his behavior but in the same sentence admitting they didn't know about his behavior. So if you didn't know that his behavior was putting you in jeopardy how can you then use it as a reason to sit quietly and watch the head of your city murdered whilst sitting on enough your city's hard earned money to make him known as being extremely rich?

I admit I misused the word "response" because there was indeed a response from Chicago. Was it a proper response? I guess that's where the real debate lies. I. personally, don't think it was but I'm not all about self preservation. Everyone has their priorities.

Countdown , I'm not bashing Squid , he was a great leader - a fine man and a friend.. He had alot of great idea's for chicago and built our foundations..

No one here is bashing him for what hes done - we're merely explaining WHY - If Squid wanted to war.. I would've done it - if it was a silly idea or not.. cause he was our Godfather.

But when he was retiring and started abusing his position as godfather and threatening other cities.. That was all on him - why should his entire city fall because he was mad over an arguement on IRC avenue?

Never said that should be the case Mudkip. What I'd like to know is... given the circumstances (he had transferred all members to other families apart from me, Space and I were shooting his BG's, he was writing out his retirement poster and he was barely active) why was there no plea for mercy? It all happened too easily after all he had done for Chicago. Then since his death, all blame has been shifted solely onto him about Chicago's shortcomings until it was mentioned by me here and a few people started to hold their hands up.

It's just not right to speak so ill of the dead.

And you're right - We never said ill will about him - He was a very accomplished man who was on his way out , we all know this Countdown.

I'm not blaming him , as I said before.. If he wanted to lead us to war - I'd of had a jolly fun time shooting along with him - Suicide or not.

But when I was explained what had happened between him and N'orleans members.. Well thats on him.. not us.

This isn't about him being a bad godfather (Which he wasn't) or a bad leader (Which he wasn't) but he had to fault up to what he said.. I'm not saying killing the man before retiring was the answer - but its done and done now.

I hope Squid is resting well right now , regardless of what happened.

I can only stand on this soapbox for so long, so all of my thoughts cannot be explained in great detail. This entire thing stinks of deceit on either side and it saddens me to see these events unfold in the manner that they did. While I am grateful to have served under Squidmaster, I cannot hide that I am unsettled by the thought of my own BG waving our Godfather right before he was shot by another city. There are individuals here that do not have even half the story and continue to call out living Chicago members and question their inactivity following the shooting. This is ill-informed. However, I cannot disagree with their train of thought on why there was no response after the shot. But what it comes down to was multiple unauthed shots were taken on Godfather Squidmaster's BGs prior to him meeting his fate. The leaders of Chicago, including the named successor, made a conscious decision to not only allow, but aid in the removal of the Godfather. THAT is why there was no violent response from Chicago after the shot.  What Countdown was alluding to earlier in his speech, I am also privy to and can't help but admit that I am also uncomfortable with it. As a soldier loyal to the success of whatever city I swear allegiance to, I must march on under whoevers banner flies over my HQ. If my leaders believe this was the best course of action...then so be it. It doesn't mean I have to be 100% comfortable with what transpired, but you have to force a smile and continue to work as a cohesive unit or crumble from inside out like an termite infested shack.

As an individual who deals with conflict on a nearly daily basis, I try to keep a level head while getting to the bottom of disputes. When Person A says Person B called them a name, I'd wonder what events lead to that before going for the juggular of Person B. Too often we can develop a mob-like mentality (no pun intended) and nod in agreeance when the first villager screams, "Burn em, hang em, off with his head!" prior to completely understanding the dynamics of the events called into question. It is definitely debatable if this was the case here, but it is something we should collectively consider when history repeats itself...because history will always repeat itself.

Of course it is unreasonable for me to assume I know all of the details of other events that contributed to the "Death" verdict passed down from the world's upper structure. I just hope the actions that were taken were mulled over long after emotions clouded the judgement of those involved on both sides. If anyone else would like to chat, my door is always open and I thank those who have come offering words after the loss of my boss and good friend.

Squid was not giving up on his city, he was moving on to bigger and better things that an overwhelming majority of our community should understand. Why he was not allowed to retire and ride into the sunset is the smaller point of contention in my eyes. In light of recent events, I may have acted in the same manner as Godfather Phil_Steak. Personally, I'd rather go down in flames, guns blazing than to simply walk away....so Godfather Phil's action could be seen as a preventative measure to minimize/eliminate any possibility of a "final act" from Chicago's late Godfather. And on that thought, we should all be thankful that lives were spared and the minimal amount of force was exercised.

These are my own words and I apologize if I offend anyone for discussing what is on my mind.

Lots of people make out like chicago wanted to take out there own godfather.. I know I personally didn't know I was shooting his bgs to kill him.. As Lilac had said before , we thought that he was retiring that minute and wanted his city to have some bg kills before he left - Thats what we honestly though.

Many people here are saying we KNEW that he was going to die but not by retirement? Horseshit. None of us but those talked to by the shooter of Squid himself knew.. and it was for the betterment of the city , To which I would have to agree.. because we're still here as a city.

Joey drives up in a truck and opens the back to reveal some inventory. After setting up the lawn chairs and the buffet table Joey sits down with some popcorn and a soda.

My you chivalric fool... as if the way one fell down mattered.

When the fall is all there is, it matters.

Joe looks around in confusion. His mind is hazy and he's unsure of his sanity at this moment.

Something very weird just happened. There's a big empty space here where there used to be some very valid information.

I was reading that too, Joe. What kind of shenanigans was that?...

Equuleus looks around as well.

I thought it was just me seeing things! Good thing I grabbed a copy of that flyer before it was taken down!