Wiggle returned from a visit with some members from another city to witness what's being said and decides to Chime in. 

"First off, I would like to state that I have remained out of the conversations mainly in part of it really not having to do with Philly. I played no part in the contests nor was even spoken too about such because I rank low on the majority's totem pole. I've been aware of that and have dealt with it with continuing to concentrate on building what I have. 

However, I won't sit back just to have my organization blasted on the streets and slandered about how my operation is running. The_Crow was authed not because of fear of NPC's. I wanted an expansion and I decided to do so. Period. My plans were to do so further out but after the fall of the remainder of NY I figured it would be a good time for him to do so to grab some workers. At the time of his auth many bloodlines were to be returning fresh from the world. I expected more to fly this way then did. Is it disappointing? Surely, but it's something you can't control when it's their option not too.

Do I agree with the competitions? Absolutely not, like you said yourself GF Cantona, it's hard to come across members. The way I see it, yes it's giving people a chance at first time auth and those who would like so to do it. I applaud that highly so the reasoning I have to disagree is merely the fact that it's hurting those who are trying to build. No one wants to give away members when they are so hard to come across especially when history has shown that every competition of the likes turn out to be bloodbaths. However, we'd feel horrible from preventing someone from chasing their dreams when the opportunity has shown itself. So it puts you in a bind really. I highly respect you GF Cantona always have. I have rarely disputed your decision making nor made it public knowledge. I sure as hell haven't called out your operations and how you manage them. For you to say there is problems within my organization is rather upsetting. I don't see what problems there are. Outside looking in, Crow has been lacked in activity. He's on vacation, it's the holidays. I'm the last person who will prevent anyone from spending time with home life. He has a wonderful RH who I feel is adequate to run things in his absence. Another issue, 23 members? Do the check of each and every family flooding these streets. 23 isn't that bad after all. Besides that, how is my operation poor? If anything I should at least be given a little respect for taking an almost impossible scenario and attempting to make it a good. I have done everything from scratch and put a lot of hours into making sure those I'm responsible to protect have what they do. I'm all about my family. I also would like to think each and everyone of them will tell you the same. 

The only reason I didn't come out and say I disagreed with the competition is rather simple. As much as I felt it wasn't warranted, it simply is a first time ever. In turn, giving absolutely nobody true ground to disagree and say it won't work. It hasn't been done before, so the outcome won't be known until time has passed. 

Now, I'm not overly excited about how Gambit has handled the situation, however he is obligated to state his feelings, much as you are about my 'poor organization'. I will have a word with him about how to handle things better, but it would be a contradiction on my part to prevent him from stating such due to myself being a huge promoter of being vocal and honest. His feelings are his own, and it does not represent the feelings for all of Disco Dynasty. Does RH to my family make it my view as well? Nope. Like I said I disagree but I don't have a personal opinion. I voted for three of the auths myself and would like to see them actually succeed. I also don't want an RH who can't speak for themselves either. So as much as you may disagree with what he has to say, it shows no absolute in making my decisions look mere pathetic. That's something I will stand up for."

WhereWasI sighs,

"bboydurante, before I continue I must point out the two most active conversations in our streets of late were ones I had a heavy amount of the speaking in. Therefor regardless of the opinion of others I will give much of the credit to myself, and one unnecessary comment for just how much activity we've seen. The topic meant little to me until that comment was made and I would've followed in this method regardless of the choice of topic. It is obviously your choice to decide whether or not you support the competition, but please don't mistake the activity from the anger of a few as the success of this idea or any of its candidates. If it was on the idea and/or the candidates, the conversation on them taking their positions and their speeches about themselves likely would've been much more active."

I say this with as much respect as I can muster, this is a waste of a district. It brought the streets to life for the wrong reasons.

Your entitled to your opinion! But to say the district is a waste is just wrong! You are saying that you rather see this district fall to the Capone's than for us (mob community) to use for our business purposes? No way...why would we give up an opportunity to expand the mob empire?!?!

It's an unearned opportunity and a slap in the face to those who've worked for such an opportunity.

And its a unearned opportunity? No bro, yes there was a voting process, yea they might not have risen through the ranks of the family. But they did a damn good job of convincing the community that they belong as CL's. There were candidates that had bloodlines tracked to GF's and they didn't win...what does that say? That they were crappy leaders? I can't say that. But I do know this, these other underdogs out did those bloodlines in this contest. And tbh....whether you like how this opportunity was provided or not. It's the way the GF council wanted it. And as far as I am concerned. Thats all that matters. 

As for leadership 'working with these 'rising stars' ', I would treat a demand from one of these leaders with less given respect than a member of what I consider a legitimate family if my Crew Leader wouldn't be so opposed to that idea because that member might have a real leader's backing and I can't simply take what I want from that kind of leader. I'm also not going to pretend they'll get treated fairly in every interaction nor should they. Those who do are gaining something by doing so or fools for trying to bolster people outside of their family before their own members. There is a price to be paid for this street activity, and with bloodshed off the table I fear how it will truly balance things out in this thing of ours because I am believe every action truly does have an equal and opposite reaction

See here is the thing with that, at the end of the day how we interact with each other is really up to the leaders. Some leaders will respect the word of these new leaders just like any other leader's. But these new bold suit will have to earn that. Some of them are better at working with others, some of them are not. Like Cantona said and Brendan drove it a little deeper. Its a filtration of sorts. The community was given the opportunity to participate in this process. And these are the 5 that came out of it. And now it continues. And I am sure the best will rise to the top. As far as the reaction your referring to...I'm lost! 

I feel I made a misstep in not making something very clear in my initial response to Gambit, so I'll apologise for any confusion or offense that's occurred in the meantime and explain my position fully. I do not have a single problem your organisation, WiggleButt, nor the organisation or decisions that are made within. If I did, I can guarantee that you wouldn't have found out about in the streets as I find that ad disrespectful way of doing business; I would have done what I believe to be the honourable thing and spoken to you personally.

My point was to demonstrate the hypocrisy in Gambit's bleating, that every accusation he made of the contest, every 'problem' that he perceived could be easily said to exist not just in your own district but across our entire thing. There was no single argument he gave in opposition to this contest that was unique to this contest. His first point, for example, was an insinuation over how this contest devalued auths, whilst freely admitting moments later that The Crow was only given the nod out of necessity. I have no qualms with The Crow's auth. Absolutely none. I want to be 100% clear on that, and let me go further by saying that even if I did, it would have absolutely nothing to do with me. I am not saying The Crow did not earn his auth, what I am saying is that his merit was very much of secondary concern because if more urgency was the fact the district needed filling - this from your Right Hand's mouth. It was a case of 'we need an auth, let's see who we can pick' rather than 'This guy is the bees, he deserves auth so let's make it happen'.

My point is that the Staten Island contest, and indeed the Brooklyn contests, are just expansions of this simple idea. We need to fill these districts, let's make it happen in a slightly different way. I actually think Desmand's question gave my a very neat way of putting across my views on this:

"I believe The Loop authed another crew leader with one of their families at 20 members. I wasn't aware there was a prerequesite number of members to be held in a crew before authing another, or is this not the case Godfather Cantona?"

There isn't! There isn't a prerequisite number! Never in all my time here has the standard process been as simple as 'only new auths when a crew is full', and it's never seen to be a problem. It wasn't a problem when any single suburb has done this very thing; but as soon as the process is altered slightly and the auths are higher in number we are talking about making it harder to rebuild? To me, that is hypocritical and disingenuous.

You simply cannot say 'Oh well, if it's one guy authing a Leader and it's not needed then that's fine; but if the process is different and it's several leaders then it's not fine' and expect me to take you seriously. Ultimately, we all model ourselves on the 'old ways', but we have constraints upon us that prevent it from being a totally accurate homage. As a result, I think it's easy to forget the true element of people power that existed in the Mob that inspired us (the real mafia). We get stuck in the same ways for years on end and as a result when something new happens people voice opposition and discontent based on nothing but gut feeling and fear of change.

The trend of referring to this is a popularity contest is perhaps the most laughable, as though it denigrates the contest in some way. Well, to anyone who does not believe that this entire thing is a popularity contest; I truly applaud your innocence and naivety - but I really am staggered that something that already exists but has been made more obvious and 'formal' by the Godfathers has caused such a righteous uproar.

This first part I can't respond to, because it makes assumptions that I didn't make in my first statement. And I'm not going to be pulled down a slippery slope by your inaccurate conclusions.

I'm not sure why some people are crying about Staten Island.

"Your initial statement was vague and some implies more than one. So I'll simply ask, who? To my knowledge I've been labeled one of the biggest 'complainers' despite my logic. The use of that phrasing 'some people' is commonly used as a broad stroke to cover a large span of people in our streets, despite the actual meaning of the phrase so I stand corrected if you meant others, but to be certain this wasn't the broad stroke I believed it to be I'll simply ask; who are the whiners? If you can't name names then I'm left to assume you're using a generalizing term that would include myself."

Thinking like this is why the streets go quiet from time to time. Someone didn't talk about the "right" topic, or the basis of said topic was all too wrong for their liking. Eventually everyone complains about something and some people "wise up" and say hey - if I say nothing at all, people can't complain, right? After all, no one is getting killed nowadays for being a "mute" leader, or promotions being held for not saying anything at all, so why not?

"Close, but incorrect. That's the cause of continuation over periodical spells, but I'd like you to go back to those spells and then reference the distance between the start of said gap and the last thread from war orphans. If there were no war orphan threads then you'll just have to find a way to determine the influence of each war on the streets. There is always a spike right before a plunge after a war. The most common causes for avoiding the streets are a lack of incentive, you don't get to be a Crew Leader by speaking well in the streets any more, and fear of being shot... which only exists if you run around tossing insults, but that fear still exists in the back of many minds."

They saw an opportunity, and seized it, even though by doing so it could put themselves in great danger and more scrutiny than if they would have gone through the traditional way of getting authed. Sometimes you have to gamble to get ahead, and whoever manages to do so in this instance I think would be just as good as any other authed leader. They didn't have all the bells and whistles, and they had to and will deal with things on an accelerated time frame - which is in my opinion much harder than what you make it out to be. You choose to focus on it being a popularity contest - I choose to focus on what obstacles they have in front of them. I personally would rather get authed in the traditional way because the risks for me are too great doing it this way. So kudos to all who want to take that chance.

"They seized an opportunity. Wouldn't that be the reasoning of a beggar, a mooch, or a lazy scoundrel? Even a thief has to take a bigger risk than what they've realistically taken in comparison to the reward. An accelerated time frame isn't a just cause for using too small of a sample size of data to judge someone. You fucked up putting yourself in a position where you had to use a small sample size. And now I must ask... what risk? Can you tell me what it is that they're risking, then compare it to the potential reward, and honestly say it's a fair comparison? That's why many think this competition is a joke... because the risk doesn't match the reward."

Okay so I guess now we have a comprehension problem.

"Mock my intellect if you wish, but you're the one who made an uneducated guess. The only way any guess on these candidates was educated was if you included prior bloodline activity and then you're a proponent of the system of keeping the same lines on top that some of those speaking in defense of this competition spoke against in your other competition. Quite the hypocrisy."

I didn't want to use names, but Telkin has been speaking in these streets way before the contest was even considered. So with that combined with what has been said after the contest was announced, I am glad that he was allowed to have a chance to set up.

"Telkin was the most active of the group but even then you only had evidence of his speaking abilities."

And in this contest, if the people that are in Staten Island are not qualified, it will be obvious, and they will pay the price, just like any other leader has.

"I direct you to the no unnecessary bloodshed clause for this one. All it takes is one angry Godfather over a move and there's a high chance they're out. So even though I believe there will be at least one move, as is what usually happens in competitions, there will still be less than there should be."

Who said hard-working people can't be popular? You?

"That's a cute way of twisting my words to fit a new meaning. I said nothing of one excluding the other and stated the joke of an emphasis on popularity over work ethic. If you can't separate the two in your mind then you know little of our ways."

The "best" depends on the opinion of each person. Who you considered to be the best as a Crew leader may not be who I would say is the best. We all have different views otherwise we'd all be the same and boring. So just because the first people were up does not always make the best. For example, there are individuals I think would make excellent crew leaders and should do so but they are not. Instead others are in the bold suit.

"I am also inclined to believe that the best of the best aren't necessarily at the top, but I do believe that every standard auth is made with that intent therefore skewing the data in an upward direction compared to a selection of random members regardless of opinion on what truly is the best."

"Never innovate, inspire or adapt. Never search for progress or change; things should stay as they are now because that is how they have always been and how they always should be."

"There's a difference between trying to understand and learn from the past and being stuck in one's ways. From my ancestral journals I'm led to believe Ragnarok is of the variation thought by many to be stuck in his ways, but there is something to learn from holding reverence for the Crew Leader position and the rank of Made Man whether you choose to acknowledge this or not. I'd also like to be clear that in this one instance I do believe you're destroying the value of the term Crew Leader... so I'll just have to ask if you think someone as off the wall as me is 'worshiping the status quo?' You're yet to say that I am, but you're also yet to claim that I am not and I don't see many out here who took this stance."

I will be the first to admit my elevation to this position was a little fortuitous, but I challenge anyone to legitimately question the hard work and dedication I have poured into this thing of ours. Now that I've 'arrived', would you honestly expect me to sit in my HQ and follow the rules, traditions and practices that I had no hand in creating? Pull the other one. No, I will use the opportunity I have to create a legacy, something that will outlast me; something my granchildren can point to and say 'Cantona did that.', and I'm sure the other Godfathers may echo similar sentiments.

The alternative, as I touched upon, is to simply plod. To plod along endlessly to the extent where you are such an empty suit that your bloodline meshes together as one homogenous gloop. 'Ah, you're from the Jones bloodline? Your dad Billy was a Leader eh? Or was it your uncle Thomas? You know what, your bloodline is so unerringly dull that I simply can't remember.'

"You have challenged the bland but also recently questioned the validity of one for being bold. So I must ask, if you truly encourage others to be bold, why would you attack a man for the consequences he received from being a very bold leader? Many men have questioned things of that man's bloodline, but boldness was never one of them."

IF I was going to define a group of people who are the weak link who devalue the bold suit then it would be these people. The folks whose bloodlines have been bold time and time again and yet have never created anything substantive in their lives, a shameful and undeserving use of the bold suit as far as I'm concerned. You'll notice I began with if, though. Why? Because I wouldn't accuse anyone of devaluing the bold suit because it's impossible to do. Sure. 'The meaning is gone!' makes for a lovely soundbite and wraps up a disingenuous argument into one handy snippet, but it's ultimately a nothing statement.

"Your idea that anyone can be authed and only the best will be considered Crew Leaders because they're the only ones who will be remembered ignores a very real issue, in my opinion. Looking through my journals I see many an instance where one not qualified to lead did such a horrendous job they scared (or nearly scared) multiple bloodlines from ever developing here. That's the influence such an ideology forces us to suffer. One that turns a blind eye to vices of that nature in that position. It's a title not impervious to damage, and one that has been used as an indestructible shield in the name of providing a distraction from problems leaders would rather be left ignored for whatever reason on far too many occasions."

We could enact a rule tomorrow that said we'd have 10 CL's per district who would only serve for one month before being rotated and it wouldn't devalue the status of Leadership, because in a year's time when we're all dust the names of all those Leaders won't be remembered. My bloodline has seen many things from those in Leadership positions across it's time here. Leaders who shot at themselves daily. Leaders who trusted the wrong person and saw their entire crew HQ wacked. Leaders who utilised personal information for blackmail (I wish I was joking). Homophobic Leaders. Racist leaders. Sexist leaders. Leaders who were removed from their posts by City Hall for their failings. Leaders who were removed from their posts by other Leaders.

"This statement is a calling card for why it is important to implicitly know a man before giving him the rights to run a family. What guarantee do you have that you didn't just accidentally auth the next vice that'll drive bloodlines away from our shores?"

Those are my opinions on this matter, I won't be going through and meticulously dissecting every quote to respond to simply because the responses are too large, and too numerous; and I feel I can't really make my position more clear.

"You're yet to respond to me directly. I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts on this matter, as I'm fearing that you may be stuck in your ways of avoiding my questions."

BulletToothTony, you come to us with lots of words. Oh, and I guess a few numbers. Let’s not leave those out, you’ve deemed them so important. From what I’ve gathered your opinion of a good crew leader is one that can successfully acquire a right hand. If that right hand can be trusted to the grave, that’s a bonus. Let me correct you here, a great crew leader does not need a right hand. A great crew leader will put in a lot of time and effort and can stand on their own two feet without any help. Not a good crew leader. A good crew leader doesn’t have to put in a lot of effort or time to just skate by, stay low and stay alive. 

The point of setting up so many at once is not to hand them fame and fortune. The exact opposite. Taking advantage of this, what some like to say, but I do not agree with, “popularity” contest is not a walk in the park. The Staten Island opportunity gives these people voted by the community, watched by the community and judged by the community, a chance. A chance at showing off their skills at leadership, prove themselves to be greatness and lead excellent crime syndicates. BulletToothTony, how did you skip all that and go straight to fame and fortune. They are not given your favorite fame and fortune on a silver platter, they aren’t deemed special, yet. In the next couple of weeks Aaron_Mckeever, Anarchy, Redrum_, Roquelaure and Telkin will show us why we voted for them. Why they deserve to not be in Staten Island, why they deserve to live. That is the point of the competition. It didn’t start and end through the one or two street speeches we heard from them and the voting. It continues far after that. No one has won yet. 

You come to us with the argument that authing five people into one district and they can’t even acquire right hands is devaluing to a crew leader, but the first thing you run to is fame and fortune. Disgraceful. A great crew leader isn’t in it for the fame and fortune. They are in it for the challenge, to be an excellent leader, to have an impact in the community.  Though, if you want it to be all about fame and fortune, go ahead, be a mediocre crew leader if you ever get the chance. If you haven’t had the chance, you want it right? As you said, every mafioso wants to a be a leader. Do you know that for a fact? You don’t. Not every single person of this thing of ours wants to be in the public spot light. 

Not to be a blunt end of a baseball bat here, but there are some that are born to lead and others that are born to follow. This does not mean that those who follow will never acquire your favorite fame and fortune because they can if they’d like, but within the walls of their family’s headquarters. We do not live in glass houses, you do not see what those that have been voted on The Island have achieved, brought to their families and done for their leaders. 

A prime example is my own crew leader, Muffin. He has followed for years in the shadows, working hard and never asking for a leg up. However, now he is in his own right a crew leader of a respectable family. Although he has not led for long, I will say that my bloodline has never seen a better leader. I know I could add my two cents into Jenny_Sparks’ What Makes Someone Good Enough For Auth speech she’s got going on down the block, but this one meshes with that one a little.  My opinion of a leader isn’t just someone that sits back and waits for things to happen, they are the ones that make things happen. They talk to their people constantly, because being a leader isn’t about yourself at all. It’s not about the fame or the fortune or the popularity contest. Which honestly people, Telkin was voted on the island and word on the street is that he’s not everyones favorite person, but people voted for him because they believed he’d be good for Staten Island. So let’s ease back on throwing around popularity contest, it’s just getting dull. Back to what I was saying, a leader isn’t about yourself at all, it’s about the individuals under you, thriving and excelling at what they do best. A great auth has a great crew and a great crew is a well run machine. A machine is made up of many parts and those parts running together as one. 

Or maybe you’ve had the chance? BulletToothTony, how many times have you led? How many times have you had a massive impact on the community? Maybe a massive impact on the community to you is that word you like to throw around a lot and devalue a bold suit, Fame. Do you come to the streets to mock what is going on in this thing of ours or do you come with actual concern? I honestly can’t tell. I’d love for you to share some insight with me. 

There is much more I could say, but I feel like I would be repeating what others have already said. I agree a lot with what Tither has said and a lot of my own feelings towards this speech mirror what he’s said. So I will wrap this up. BulletToothTony, I honestly don’t believe that the Staten Island opportunity devalues the position of crew leader, I think you have devalued it with your words and your numbers.

Your entitled to your opinion! But to say the district is a waste is just wrong! You are saying that you rather see this district fall to the Capone's than for us (mob community) to use for our business purposes? No way...why would we give up an opportunity to expand the mob empire?!?!

"If you'd risk not having enough bodies to continue maintaining your original businesses, it would make sense to give it up for now and return when you have the sufficient numbers."

And its a unearned opportunity? No bro, yes there was a voting process, yea they might not have risen through the ranks of the family. But they did a damn good job of convincing the community that they belong as CL's. There were candidates that had bloodlines tracked to GF's and they didn't win...what does that say? That they were crappy leaders? I can't say that. But I do know this, these other underdogs out did those bloodlines in this contest. And tbh....whether you like how this opportunity was provided or not. It's the way the GF council wanted it. And as far as I am concerned. Thats all that matters. 

"I've convinced many men of things they walked into a conversation believing impossible. Words are one of many tools a Leader has at his disposal, and they weren't even given much time to fully demonstrate those. Bloodlines traced back to Godfathers means little to me. There have been bloodlines traced back to Godfathers with larger guns than ancestors of mine left standing in the wake of a first wave when my ancestor perished out of respect, and I have no title ancestor with a claim to being a Godfather. That's all that matters because they have the voice known as force. I can't force anyone to accept an idea, but I won't pretend I agree with it because I've been forced to let it happen. As noted before, if I had a say in the matter I never would've let it happen."

See here is the thing with that, at the end of the day how we interact with each other is really up to the leaders. Some leaders will respect the word of these new leaders just like any other leader's. But these new bold suit will have to earn that. Some of them are better at working with others, some of them are not. Like Cantona said and Brendan drove it a little deeper. Its a filtration of sorts. The community was given the opportunity to participate in this process. And these are the 5 that came out of it. And now it continues. And I am sure the best will rise to the top. As far as the reaction your referring to...I'm lost! 

"The reaction refers to the fact that a district is being used in an unfit manner, rather than from a proper authing or an idea with more thought put into picking leaders or thought into how they can govern themselves. The line is referring to Newton's Law of Motion, and the reaction so far hasn't been one the leaders were expecting because a part of the populous disagrees with it and has been revamping the streets... something that was probably the real intention of starting competitions again. My opinion is that it is also defacing the value of the Crew Leader role, but there's yet to be any evidence and if I'm right there will likely be little thought to connect the evidence to this concept because 'they were trying something new.'"

Landside, you make it sound like I judge crew leaders on how quickly they acquire a right hand, and go on to back up Tither in saying that you do not need a right hand. Withour a Right hand who is there to handle buisness when your gone? If your on holiday, stuck doing other work or merely sleeping and an important issue arises, who is going to be there for you? No one. Now im not saying that all crews have someone around 24/7 but some of the better crews have someone there 90% of the time, or atleast someone who can get in touch with the CL if needs be. A Crew Leader has responsibilities, and if they are not around to handle issues then they are as much use as a chocolate teapot. I truly believe no Crew Leader can be great on their own, and I beg someone to prove me wrong. I honestly do not believe a single man can run a family without a trusted RHM of LHM by their side.

“The Staten Island opportunity gives these people voted by the community, watched by the community and judged by the community, a chance.” This is exactly what is happening now on these streets, these Crew Leaders are being judged by us, by everyone, some are just more vocal about it than others. This is a new type of auth, one that is strange and not the norm, so of course people are going to be scrutinizing everything they do, It would have been silly of the Crew Leaders to expect not to be judged after being elected in some sort of Christmas time competition. I can say that it is great to see Crew Leaders like Tither coming to the streets to defend themselves from the scrutinizing and show the community that they are doing enough to prove themselves as worth of the job role.

“You come to us with the argument that authing five people into one district and they can’t even acquire right hands is devaluing to a crew leader, but the first thing you run to is fame and fortune. Disgraceful. A great crew leader isn’t in it for the fame and fortune. They are in it for the challenge, to be an excellent leader, to have an impact in the community.” Ha! You really believe this? If they were in it for the challenge they would have proved themselves like every other hard working crew leader has done instead of entering a competition as a quick route to being a Crew Leader. These people have a lot more work to do now to prove themselves as such a 'great' leader.

“You do not see what those that have been voted on The Island have achieved, brought to their families and done for their leaders.” Nope, your right, we don't see what they have achieved other than winning the competition, this is why they have to prove themselves so much, thanks again for reinforcing my point.

I do not wish to make a comment on Muffin as I do not want to seem like I am commenting on specific people, I am merely criticising the system.

I can assure you that I honestly have concern for the devaluation of the Crew Leader tag, I have seen the Made Man status slowly dwindle, there are still a lot of good crews out there who make people earn that status, but unfortunately its the few crews handing out these ranks to every ton, dick and harry that devaluates their status. If you really wish to know what my bloodline has done feel free to drop me a personal message, It not that I am hiding it, it is just irrelevant to the current discussions.

If anyone else feels like I have devalued the Crew Leader status please let me know, as I dont know how by starting a discussion, that was being discusses in every back alley, and bringing it to the streets for open discussion from both sides has done this. If anything hearing peoples responses and seeing people stand up for their title is helping me to regain faith in the Crew Leader's.

Apologies for the mistake in my previous speech, "Landside, you make it sound like I judge crew leaders on how quickly they acquire a right hand, and go on to back up Tither in saying that you do not need a right hand."

it was meant to read:

Landside, you make it sound like I judge crew leaders on how quickly they acquire a right hand, and go on to back up Telkin in saying that you do not need a right hand.

Apologies to Telkin and Tither for confusing names for a second.

"Frankly, I don't have the time or patience to go back through everything previously said, so forgive me if I repeat or echo any of the others.

Personally, I don't like how there is too many chiefs and not enough Indians. If there was a reasoning to house all the people, then yeah, I can see why we would need so many people holding themselves within the bold suits. You can try to say that it doesn't tarnish this thing of ours, but it does to a certain extent. The gift and luck of making it to Godfather isn't the challenge it use to be, unless you want to count getting the actual numbers in your HQ to make this happen. That's the hardest part now. I'm not saying that the leaders aren't qualified, I'm saying that since there is so many, is becoming more of a usual thing nowadays.

If you look at this in a supply and demand type of way, you will see that we do indeed have too many leaders and not enough people to fill this spots like we did in the past. You can work as hard as you want to try and recruit, but it doesn't change the matter of substance. Instead of competing for a lower number of CL's, you're now competing against a MAJORITY. Basically, the strong will continue to be strong and the weak will continue to struggle. Sure, people are getting chances they've never had before but that use to be the luxury about it. You knew that you would have to impress the socks off someone to get your bold badge and it was an honor. Is it like that nowadays? Not in my eyes, and you won't convince me otherwise. I think it's sad that the Gods gave into the people whining about it. Same goes for Godfather. There is no thrill about it like there use to be. Sure, you can have your own district to build, but it's not like when we use to have our own cities to build. There were 6-7 cities with 3-4 auths in each, giving you a number AT MAX around 34 bold badges. Now there are 4 cities, with sometimes 5 districts. On the average we will say 3-4 districts. Within these districts you can auth as many people as you wish, but its hard to get the numbers to do that because there are so many choices to choose from at an auth perspective. This gives you, as the speech intrigues, too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Which in turn, tarnishes the race and challenge we use to all love to battle for.

It is devalued.

Some of us could get a bold suit anytime we liked if we really wanted, because it's the majority now. That's why we will see the same old auths and hands. Is it like the previous? Perhaps, but to a new extent now. The quality has dropped and the people who do sneak through the cracks to shine, aren't noticed like they should be. Take Sweets for example. This is an amazing chance for her, and her first time ever. I wish that with was back when we only had cities so that her loyalty and hard work would have more of an impact. Now, we authed her for those reasons, but with all the others, it's hard to give credit where credit is due. Sweets should have been paid back with not only her own HQ for her loyalty, but the number of indians to help support her in the casting role. There shouldn't be so many other CL's competing with her. With the way things are now, there is nothing we can do about that. People will continue to get authed and people will continue to get overlooked when it should be their chance to shine. Frankly, the crews that my pappy has had in the past were amazing. In the future, will I be able to reflect my pappy? Nope. They will run off to join friends and others, instead of putting their valued time in with someone who deserved the shot to prove that they are a capable leader. If we would have had this many auths in the day when my pappy was around, those certain people would have never been able to see me pappy for the star he really was. It's those chances and honor that he received from working with people who were willing to give him a chance that made him. It probably would've never happened in today's time if it were his first time.

Then we have the group of auths that I personally don't feel or believe have earned it or shown that they care about the position they're in. Some people take it for granted. I'm not going to name call, but I'm sure others see this as well. People can tell me 'oh that's none of your business', but it is.... If the Gods allowed this many auths and such, then we should take in account of ALL OF THEM, not only pick and choose as we please. There is nothing that makes me more sick than someone taking their role for granted. It's makes me throw up. You wanted this chance? You want to prove that you deserved it? Show me... Don't just roam around in a bold suit, SHOW ME. I want to see exactly why you deserved it because that you were trusted by your CL. Back in the day, I could see the reasons for so and so being authed. Now, I don't. Now, there is too many family speeches. Now, there is the chance for a tarnished future. Agree with me or don't... I don't really care.

I wish things would go back to like they once were."

“You come to us with the argument that authing five people into one district and they can’t even acquire right hands is devaluing to a crew leader, but the first thing you run to is fame and fortune. Disgraceful. A great crew leader isn’t in it for the fame and fortune. They are in it for the challenge, to be an excellent leader, to have an impact in the community.” Ha! You really believe this? If they were in it for the challenge they would have proved themselves like every other hard working crew leader has done instead of entering a competition as a quick route to being a Crew Leader. These people have a lot more work to do now to prove themselves as such a 'great' leader. -Bullet tooth tony

Tony, Doesn't your answer to this only Prove the point? You're saying that by taking this route to Crew leader, this people have taken the easy way, which will make it harder for them to be remembered as "great". 

By taking this route, Perhaps it will be harder to become great. Perhaps just surviving will be more difficult. But I can't think of anything that would make it more logical that these people took on This competition for the challenge. They already have, in the minds of many, two strikes against them, as wherewasI, cory_Chase, and others have opined. That makes this as near to the ultimate challenge of Leadership as I can come. Here they are, Little support, and they are already being attacked as unfit, but they are still out to make their mark. I say, hell yes, take up that challenge. I would have done so myself were I not already Weraing a bold suit and running a crew of my own.

Perhaps I took Landslides comment a different way to yourself Philli_Stein. I feel that the crew leaders taking the easy route are just in it for fame and fortune, thats my two cents. I want to see a lot more from these crew leaders, so yes, looking at the comment from a different view now i see that how my comment proves the point, i guess we had the same ideas here, suggesting that taking the easy way does not lead to great leaders, great leaders are forged through hard work and respect.

I came to the streets for two reasons, one to say how i felt about how i feel the status of becoming a CL is slipping, and how I feel this way of authing people is not helping the situation. The other reason I came is because I wanted all the CL's to see this, I wanted them to know how I and other feel, and from that they can either hate me, or they can take my words and use them as a driving force to make themselves better. I openly ask for any of the CL's to be the best they can, perhaps even the best ever and make me eat my own words. I am sure they know by now in order to do this they will have to pull something special out of their hat but if they do succeed, I will be happy in knowing that the right person was given the opportunity to do this. Just right now, i feel like there are too many CL's and electing them like this just isnt helping the situation. What I want is not for the individual CL's to be slandered until the day they die, but for the name of all CL's to have more weight in this world, because right now with 8 crews having less than 5 members, it all looks like a bit of a joke.

WhereWasI, I'm not really sure if it's comprehension, or are you just simply overwhelmed by talking with several people at once. Also, I see from our interactions here and from what you have said to others today that you like to attempt to use intimidation tactics. Sorry, but blatantly insulting people because they don't agree with you isn't going to get your point across. So let me try again.

My first statement was in reference to people who felt like the Staten Island contest was devaluing the role of a crew leader. I then said that if that was true, then the role of a crew leader would be worthless by now because contests like these have appeared before in our history. At the end of my initial statement, I pointed out things that we should be concerned with when it comes to the role of a crew leader, and how it has changed over the years. So that's why I said could not answer you regarding that first comment made to me, because it made no sense at all.

Next, if you don't call death a risk, I am not sure what else is. If someone takes your money, at worse they would get mugged, not killed. The repercussions would be too great if someone were to kill another over a theft. And I think these new leaders are not beggars or lazy scoundrels, so I'll let you have those sentiments. What, am I twisting your words? Why use that comparison if you didn't on some level feel that way? When I talked about seizing an opportunity, I was talking from an adventurous, entrepreneur point of view. I am a business woman, after all, so I tend to see things from that point of view. 

You're worried about a Godfather or someone else taking the leaders out...how many wars can we all say as a consensus was justified?

She looks around and sees blank expressions on people's faces

Anyone? No?

So first you don't want them to be leaders via a contest, but then you don't want them to be subject to any danger, like just about every leader has been. Make up your mind already - this comes with the territory.

Oh, and back to the twisting of words...I didn't twist your words at all. You were the one who made it either/or with your own words. Sorry if I don't think insulting others' work ethic is funny. Anyway...

Blaise sees WhereWasI get swarmed by several people

I'll let you get back to those people over there..they seem to have a bone to pick with you.

Cory, despite the way our world is set up now, and even though there are a lot of leaders at present, I believe anyone can shine and make a difference. It will be harder, and at the same time, more forgiving if mistakes are made. People remember the very good, and the very poor leaders in their own history. I wouldn't worry about whether the public remembers certain people. Unless you killed a bunch of people and made many hate you, you probably won't be remembered. Once upon a time, the mafia would get the press to write favorable things about them so that they could be remembered for a little bit longer, but I see those days have passed as well.

"Sure, they can shine, but the support to have in that process is truly harder. People joined my pappy because they heard great things about him, and they wanted to give it a try. With all the bold suits, it makes those chance even harder. That's why I didn't join one of my pappy's friends, I branched to join Drunky, who I had never worked with before because that's the way I liked it. That is the past though. I missed the thrill for working for someone I didn't completely know, but heard good things about. That's just the bit of old school in me, I suppose.

However, I can't disagree much with your assumption. It seems like overkill to me. When I look around at those surrounding us, I shouldn't expect to see more CL's, hands, etc... rather than members trying to join one of these families. Like I said, I don't believe there is anyone that will convince me otherwise. I'm not a fan of experiments, but a competition? I might be able to get behind that, if it weren't a popularity contest that it was. And there is a difference between experimenting and competing...

Nothing I say will change what has happened, and I don't blame the people of this country. I blame the Gods for giving in and being weak to the whining. 'Oh, I never get a chance'. 'Man, I would love to just be a crewleader one time'. THEN EARN IT. Take heed of your leader, adjust to how they do things, and bust your ass. Make no one question why you are in the place you're in.

Back when people were authed, we seen why and we held our own opinions. Most of it comes down to who can trust and who you can't, at least to me. With so many out there, it's makes it hard to recognize one leader from another, that's where I disagree with you. I was never a fan of people who always said 'Well, what if I don't want to join that leader. Auth someone we want to work for'. Here is an idea, how about you give one of those auths a chance that they earned. And I'm not talking about this stupid way that people get auth now, but back when we actually had cities. People were saying that when my bloodline got its first chance in LA and those people were saying 'Auth someone we wanna work for'. Umm... Hello. The people in that position busted their gonads. It use to be an honor, now it's just clockwork.

Tainted. Devalued. However you want to look at it, it's happening. It's not the struggle it use to be and it's not the thrill of working to get there. It's needed because the way our country is now, and that I believe is worthless. It's not what it use to be. It's, for simple terms, bullshit.

Hell, if you drink too much water it's bad for you. Same if you have too many CLs and hands around. It makes something that use to be valuable, not so much anymore. It's like finding a diamond, but ohhh nevermind! There are plenty of diamonds out there now, so I will pay you tree-fidy for it. It's losing everything that it use to actually stand for. Quality over quanity. We've lost that in this world and in the future it's not going to change until the Gods change it."

I believe it's a rather naive view to believe that even if you "busted your balls" you would ever get the chance to run your own crew Cory_Chase. Some people are always going to be favoured over others purely based on their bloodlines achievements as opposed to their actual achievements. Quality over quantity? I dare say it would be too early to presume that this huge influx of current leaders will lack quality that the old apparently had.

Quite frankly there has been a whole host of embarrassing auths made both by the "old" crew leaders and those currently in power. Your glasses are very rose tinted indeed if you think it was that much better before, it's easy to think that though when your bloodline is often one that sits a top the pyramid rather then building it. 

"Not if you leave no questions asked, Desmand. I was a fresh blooded gangster once upon a time and I earned it by someone who was willing to take a chance on me. I didn't get there by clicking my red high heels and making a wish, I worked for it and received. Most of all, I earned trust.

You don't think some of the leaders lack quality? That's your opinion and I have mine, because I see it for what it really is. The ones that didn't in the past were usually eliminated, no? They gained trust and worked their asses off to get there, no? Hard work is noticed, believe it or not. Trust is always the most important thing. You can bust your ass all you want, but if you don't earn your CL's trust then it doesn't mean much to begin with.

I'm not sayinf everyone's decisions are perfect, because they won't be. People auth for their own reasons. Nowadays we are forced to put up a certain number whether we think it's good or bad for business. You're acting like I was just blessed with the power to be a CL, when that wasn't the case. I fought wars with my CL, earned their trust, got my chance and made the best of it. You know what the difference was? I made sure I completed the whole packed. I didn't moan and groan about when things didn't go my way, because that's a turnoff to a leader. You ask me for auth? I won't give it to you based off that alone. You must work hard and earn my trust like others have done. Like I have done. If you aren't willing to do those things, then yeah, you don't deserve it in my eyes.

So please, don't act like everything was handed to me on a silver fuckin' platter when I was the one who made it possible. I suggest others do the same."

It's easy to think that though when your bloodline is often one that sits a top the pyramid rather then building it. 

Heh Desman this is very far from the truth Cory_Chase has he been giving opportunities , yes sure he has but this man has worked his ass off for them he is a shining example of someone who cares about every single person he works with and does everything he can to motivate and get the best out of them I have worked with him many times and he is a enjoyable person to work with he makes each crew and city he is in amazing.

Now you can even feel the same to say this about my bloodline "starting at the top" but some people simply are trusted and have that work ethic as soon as they enter a crew they do everything they can to make their crew and the people in it better. So please before making such blind and ignorant comments give someone their do when it's deserved Cory_Chase has earned his in my books.

Atrocity skips around with Cory_Chase  

WhereWasI, I'm not really sure if it's comprehension, or are you just simply overwhelmed by talking with several people at once. Also, I see from our interactions here and from what you have said to others today that you like to attempt to use intimidation tactics. Sorry, but blatantly insulting people because they don't agree with you isn't going to get your point across. So let me try again.

"Blatant intimidation tactics... and blatant insults. If you mean Telkin, the man has hinted to me that the word that popped off the page for him was the reference to Atlas, the man who is tasked to carry the world on his shoulders. He has had no issues with my words whatsoever and informed me himself that despite our vastly differing opinions he's happy I came into this conversation. I throw insults his way out of respect, because he's capable of handling uncensored criticism unlike most. You twist words to find meanings that clearly differ from the original. You likely do this because you're most likely incapable of creating a proper counterpoint out of fear of admitting to yourself that I could be right or sheer ignorance of the subject matter. Neither of which is my problem until you choose to twist my words. Stop now."

My first statement was in reference to people who felt like the Staten Island contest was devaluing the role of a crew leader. I then said that if that was true, then the role of a crew leader would be worthless by now because contests like these have appeared before in our history. At the end of my initial statement, I pointed out things that we should be concerned with when it comes to the role of a crew leader, and how it has changed over the years. So that's why I said could not answer you regarding that first comment made to me, because it made no sense at all.

"You now claim that those claiming the value of the Crew Leader role was being defaced were whining. I made that statement multiple times that I believe it is being defaced. You then said my comment made no sense because I assumed you were calling me a whiner. You're too busy twisting words because I made an assumption (that you've just proven to be correct) to make me appear to be ranting with fallacies to even remember your own logical opinions. You did in fact call me a whiner, and you're yet to actually poke at any of the logic behind my thoughts without intentionally taking it out of context. I disagree with your belief that competitions of the past devalued the role of the Crew Leader because of the increased risk of being killed, but the counter-point I used to your assessment of it meaning nothing after people did it in the past was that the sins of the past are not an excuse for the sins of the present. Stop twisting my words to find meanings you can challenge and challenge my actual logic. All my comments with you seem to be are untwisting my own words and it's a waste of time you're forcing on me in case someone didn't read all the content up to this point."

Next, if you don't call death a risk, I am not sure what else is. If someone takes your money, at worse they would get mugged, not killed. The repercussions would be too great if someone were to kill another over a theft. And I think these new leaders are not beggars or lazy scoundrels, so I'll let you have those sentiments. What, am I twisting your words? Why use that comparison if you didn't on some level feel that way? When I talked about seizing an opportunity, I was talking from an adventurous, entrepreneur point of view. I am a business woman, after all, so I tend to see things from that point of view. 

"Risk of Death is greatly reduced by the vague clause regarding 'unnecessary bloodshed.' The prize for previous competitions is still the same... but the risk was greater back then. The means they went through to gather their position was that of a beggar... unearned. Can they change my mind? Possibly, but I won't respect someone who has a position handed to them because of the position they did nothing to earn in the first place."

"You take my words, and rearrange them in an order that causes a new meaning, that's twisting my words. I do feel that way about their means of acquiring the position, the original twisting I focused on comes at the end when you claim that I claimed the hard-working can't be popular. I claimed people are being rewarded for popularity instead hard-work, you twisted my words to make it seem as if I claimed hard-workers can't be popular. You are no business woman. You can lie to yourself all you want, but the term involves two trading for as much as they can get out of the other while following a moral code. Twisting my words and lying to manipulate opinions of me makes you a con-woman, and a shitty one at that because you're not doing a very good job of backing up your simple trick with a means of force to prevent me from exposing what you've done."

You're worried about a Godfather or someone else taking the leaders out...how many wars can we all say as a consensus was justified?

She looks around and sees blank expressions on people's faces

Anyone? No?

So first you don't want them to be leaders via a contest, but then you don't want them to be subject to any danger, like just about every leader has been. Make up your mind already - this comes with the territory.

"First off it's very cute of you to tell me how other people react to your silly questions when I could simply ask them. Blank expressions, ha! The horror of the blank expressions!"

"Do you ever read the parts as a whole? Picking and choosing when to use parts of an argument completely misshapes the argument. Let me untangle what you've done with this. I claim that Godfathers having an unjust reason to kill the participants will lead to less bloodshed... for the reason that the unjustified killing can only happen once one of them uses their gun. Therefor, any man of intelligence would need clarification on the rule, or would wait for another to test the waters first. If they all do this, and never risk upsetting the outside leaders there will be a significantly lower amount of bloodshed because of potential outside interference, not necessarily because they get along or work well together."

I'll let you get back to those people over there..they seem to have a bone to pick with you.

"None with a bone quite like yours. You may try to act high and mighty but all you've done is intentionally mix up my concepts to make me appear the lesser but I have long since passed the days of letting that get to me. In my time dealing with your kind I've come to understand it's a natural defense mechanism for those constantly surrounded by things that confuse or scare them. One thing isn't necessarily true in one set of instances but can be if another detail is applied. It's not difficult to pick at an argument once you've taken one of the legs out from underneath it. It's juvenile and leads to nothing but speaking in circles as I have to keep putting the leg you remove by choosing to ignore for the moment back up while you're not in search of any real answers... just trying to prevent another from building upon the things they've assembled. You avoid real answers to the real questions."

"Oh and as for the swarm..."

WhereWasI looks left, then right, under all the cars in the streets and then stares into the sky.

"All I see is just you with a personal bone to pick. There are plenty of others with a personal bone to pick with me, but none of them have chosen to take part in this discussion (and spoken against me). So now I must ask, why would you have said bone to pick? You've done nothing but twist words so chances are you'll just lie, so don't actually answer that I'll find the truth. I'll get in contact with a few others and see what I can find out and be happy to figure out your bone without your consent of revealing it."