My dear WhereWasI....if we were to replay every conversation that you have had since BulletToothTony started this topic, we can all see the arrogance radiating off of you. Just because I've exposed your words, doesn't mean I'm twisting what you say. I think you are just taken aback that someone actually has taken the time to pull apart all the fluff from your words and showed them for what they really are. Or was I supposed to stand back and let you say all of those things to me? Like you have done with everyone else? I am not the only one who has objected to the way you have phrased things today, just the most outspoken one. I will never understand why people cannot take what they dish out.

Blaise shakes her head and  laughs

Yes...speaking in circles clearly shows how superior you are in your logic. Or is it just trying to hide the fact that you're really not saying anything at all? A personal bone to pick with you? No good sir, I don't even know you at all, so why would it be personal? And sure, have fun finding out about me.

One of her bodyguards, Lucas,  whispers something in Blaise's ear, causing her to widen her eyes.

I almost forgot - thank you for reminding me, Lucas. WhereWasI, I may come back if people are still around, but I have work to do. As they say, time is money!

My dear WhereWasI....if we were to replay every conversation that you have had since BulletToothTony started this topic, we can all see the arrogance radiating off of you. Just because I've exposed your words, doesn't mean I'm twisting what you say. I think you are just taken aback that someone actually has taken the time to pull apart all the fluff from your words and showed them for what they really are. Or was I supposed to stand back and let you say all of those things to me? Like you have done with everyone else? I am not the only one who has objected to the way you have phrased things today, just the most outspoken one. I will never understand why people cannot take what they dish out.

"You call it arrogance, I call it a proper confidence in a series of logic based on stated premises, unlike your statements. The only statement any has pointed out to me as arrogance (and this was in private) was claiming a large stake in the recent explosion of street activity. All I have to say to that is... I point to the number of comments I've made and the number I've caused in response to my words. If you believe there is arrogance in other statements, how about pointing them out so it's not a broad stroked claim without any backing."

"If I claim, in the case where all the balls in a selection are blue, and we're only considering the balls in this selection, then all the balls are blue. Your statements involve ignoring the premises it requires to be possible:

This first part I can't respond to, because it makes assumptions that I didn't make in my first statement. And I'm not going to be pulled down a slippery slope by your inaccurate conclusions.

"This statement was made ignoring your own premise that people who believe the value of Crew Leader was being diminished are just whiners."

As for voting in the contest, I did not have the pleasure of knowing people in the contest, so I took the time to observe their street activity....ALL of their activity. Whoever said that the contest was based on a single speech conversation must have been used to not seeing a lot of activity from people. Based on that, I voted for two people - one who has been active for quite some time, and one who wasn't as active, but I felt had good ideas that if put into action, would benefit our world greatly. Is being verbose a prerequisite to becoming a crew leader? Not necessarily, but having an idea of who that person is and what he or she stands for never hurt anyone. - Blaise

"You based your votes off of a street presence and set of statements that were thrown together in what amount of time? That's to be trusted over the individuals who had been working directly with these leaders proving themselves for what reasons? And if you say it's to be fair you're lying because no one does anything that would hurt themselves and that means they all had something to gain from picking that system. Even acts of selflessness can be used to prop up a presence to keep themselves at the top, and they'd be the ultimate fools if they intentionally propped up an idea that hurt themselves." - WhereWasI

Okay so I guess now we have a comprehension problem. - Blaise

I didn't want to use names, but Telkin has been speaking in these streets way before the contest was even considered. So with that combined with what has been said after the contest was announced, I am glad that he was allowed to have a chance to set up. - Blaise

"There was little to no activity outside of street activity for you to measure. You claimed that I claimed one speech. Note the word presence in my quote. That's word twisting, possibly a mistake but based off the sheer number, highly unlikely. Out of all that statement... you attacked one part and it wasn't even what I said."

"After all those horrific things that defaced the value of being a Crew Leader, would you really like to curse it even further to only be given to the popular crowd rather than the hard working?"

Who said hard-working people can't be popular? You?

"Where in that statement did I make that statement? That's an accusation based on an unproven assumption."

WhereWasI, I'm not really sure if it's comprehension, or are you just simply overwhelmed by talking with several people at once. Also, I see from our interactions here and from what you have said to others today that you like to attempt to use intimidation tactics. Sorry, but blatantly insulting people because they don't agree with you isn't going to get your point across. So let me try again.

"Quite the accusation without pointing to anything for me to be failing to comprehend. Followed by an accusation of intimidation tactics, without a shred of evidence provided. And moving into accusations of insulting the individual. I insulted actions and the individuals who practice them, then after setting up said link made the claim to those guilty of these actions."

I'm not sure why some people are crying about Staten Island. This isn't the first time in history the current heads have thought of this sort of idea, and it certainly won't be the last time that this will take place. So saying things like the position of crew leader is being devalued would mean it's been that way for a very long time. - Blaise

"If you're right and I'm just crying, go ahead and poke holes in my logic or choose your words wisely next time. That means pick out a sentence based on a false premise, and point out why it's false. And as for the position of crew leader being previously devalued, that's absolutely no excuse for devaluing it in the present." - WhereWasI

My first statement was in reference to people who felt like the Staten Island contest was devaluing the role of a crew leader. I then said that if that was true, then the role of a crew leader would be worthless by now because contests like these have appeared before in our history. At the end of my initial statement, I pointed out things that we should be concerned with when it comes to the role of a crew leader, and how it has changed over the years. So that's why I said could not answer you regarding that first comment made to me, because it made no sense at all. - Blaise

"As previously stated, you called me out for assuming I was a part of a group that the last statement of the selection above proved I was a part of said group. Can you even admit to that? That you were wrong in assuming I incorrectly assumed I was included in the broad sweeping accusation of whiners? Probably not... because that would involve being specific and having a point."

"That's not pulling out the fluff, that's intentionally ignoring one sect of the whole to attack a part that can only exist in the presence of the whole. You're also the only one out here putting a play on words to establish a false concept of my ideas. You've already accused me of strong arm tactics without any evidence of a threat in the slightest. You've accused me of claiming the hard working can't  be popular... again with not a shred of REAL evidence. I'd be fine if you told me I was wrong and stated your opinion why. So claim as you will, but your tactics are nothing better than Kuklinski's to anyone whose read all the way through. You're the only to object in that way and make accusations on things never said. So as for taking what I dish, try dishing what I dish if that's your real aim. Which I highly doubt, so much so that is an impossibility in my mind."

Yes...speaking in circles clearly shows how superior you are in your logic. Or is it just trying to hide the fact that you're really not saying anything at all? A personal bone to pick with you? No good sir, I don't even know you at all, so why would it be personal? And sure, have fun finding out about me.

"I'm forced to speak in circles because you're incapable of tackling the logic as a whole and take on a form of arguing that ignores given conditions for individual pieces; which in turn causes me to reestablish things I've already said not because they've been disproved, but because they've been intentionally rephrased in a way that loses meaning. The only error on my part is not forcing you to form a fully developed thought. So here's a challenge, build up a fully formed idea on the topics presented: The effect of the unnecessary bloodshed clause, the presence of defacing the title of Crew Leader with the increased number, and whether or not winning a vote is really the proper etiquette for becoming a Crew Leader. I won't respond again until you fully lay out what factors influence each piece, why they affect things the way they do, and what implications are made from such concepts."

"Anyone who comes to the streets with no purpose but to twist my words to give me qualities I don't have either has a personal reason or they're out to make enemies. I won't stand for the tarnishing of my name on accusations of statements I never made. So I will call you out on attacking my personal character with unfounded accusations."

You’re right BulletToothTony, I do make it sound like you judge crew leaders on how quickly they can acquire a right hand because that is what you do. I will go into further detail of how it is completely possible for a crew leader to not have a right hand and run successfully. Lets say a bold suit has a small crew of ten people. This may just happen with all the new auths in New York. This ten man crew can function with just a crew leader and no hands. I’ve heard it said here and there that a hand should earn the rank of made man or higher to be given a slanty suit. If that crew leader with the ten man crew that just started up could completely have a structure within itself, just one that you cannot see. 

Next I bet you’ll argue what if something happens and another crew leader needs to get ahold of ten man crew that doesn’t have a right hand and bold suit is in bed. Have you ever heard of chain of command? It’s this amazing thing found within crews and within districts and even found within whole cities. If a crew leader, for example, from New Orleans has a member that was shot at by a crew from Las Vegas and needs to get in touch with that Las Vegas crew leader that does not have hands and is busy sleeping how will that New Orleans crew leader handle business? Simple, that New Orleans crew leader can contact the next person up, either the (acting) Godfather of that district or the Underboss. Just like a crew should work together, so should a district. 

Point of this little lesson for you BulletToothTony, is that if a crew leader is unable to find a trusting and/or deserving right hand, left hand or both, it is possible to still entirely possible to run a successful crew. 

The Staten Island opportunity is a challenge in itself. What’s to say the people that ran for this contest have not done getting a crew the traditional way and are looking for something new and fresh? There have been contests for bold suits in the past, I’ve read it in my ancestor’s journals, but this one is different. A new era of contests. An adventurous fellow would jump at the chance of this. I just don’t understand why you cannot think out of the box Tony, it’s really not that hard. I mean, you said it yourself, while backing up my point. Thanks for that. 

“This is exactly what is happening now on these streets, these Crew Leaders are being judged by us, by everyone, some are just more vocal about it than others. This is a new type of auth, one that is strange and not the norm”

When one sets up traditionally, they have already proven themselves to the right people within the district, why not take the challenge of proving yourself to the whole community? To some, I’m sure that sounds like fun. Tony, try to argue me again how I can believe that people are not here for fame and fortune. Actually, just argue the fame part, do you know how expensive setting up is? There is no fortune here. 

The glass house bit was not to reinforce your point. It was a nice way to tell you that you do not know what happens behind closed doors and the ones that have been voted on the island may be great candidates and the last thing to set an example for devaluing a bold suit. 

You are commenting and criticizing specific people. Sure, you haven’t called their names out, just their districts. You are specifically commenting and criticizing the five new auths in Staten Island. You do realize that the candidates had about a week, maybe less time, to pull this all together and then six hours after they find out the winners you want to come to the streets and comment and criticize who does and doesn’t have a right hand or a left hand. When Telkin came to the streets to reply to your singling out comments this was your reply.

“I must say I did consider the fact that people are waiting to be transferred over, and I thought why would anyone want to set up without having a RHM next to them or even having a few members behind them? It just seems silly to me, to set up on your own and sit in your lonely HQ waiting for your friends to arrive? I guess I would have just done it differently, made sure my members were ready for the move before I set up, instead of rushing into things.”

Contests are exciting! Why not rush into it. The whole set up, from the announcement of the contest to the announcement of the winners, came and went pretty fast. You just got voted on the Island, you’re not going to sit around twiddling your thumbs, you’re going to take action and get your crew going. No time like the present. It just seems silly to me to wait around and not set up shop. Oh, no, that’s right Tony, if you were in their shoes you wouldn’t be able to do anything without your right hand holding your hand. My bad. 

If you honestly have concern don’t start mocking the position of Godfather by telling us all you’ll participate in Godfather idol whatever that may be. 

"Swamp_Rat... who are you addressing? What aspects stay the same?"

I agree Swamp - it may come packaged differently but when you open it up, it's still the same.

Blaise smiles and links her arm around Swamp's arm

Come - let's get some coffee or something. Maybe even some doughnuts...hehe.

So if that's all so frequent and apparent, and there's no case here... why mention it at all? For what purpose did you feel the need to say something of the sort?

"Correct, you have every right to speak without a reason. Just as I and everyone else has every right to judge you for it, whether that be calling someone who speaks without a point a spammer, an idiot, a saint or whatever one chooses... we have the right to judge you based upon this decision. Just as I have every right to ask you why you would do something like that and be judged for asking."

"No what I'm doing is asking you why. If you had a point, you would've stated it. I feel this message was your real point, the message that you think I'm trying to make people feel stupid when I'm not. I'm trying to make the community think, if that requires mentally bullying you by picking apart your logic and asking you questions, then watching you struggle because you spoke without thinking... then that's what I'll do. I don't want anyone's pity, I don't want anyone's admiration or anything in between, all I want is to revive the streets. The only way I see that happening is by challenging all of you to think and telling you I'm better at it than you. Challenging you all to come beat me with your minds, because nothing else seems to get people out and actively thinking consistently. Put words in my mouth that responding to your stupidity is agreeing, I'll happily let your subconscious (should you read this) and others judge both of us for the content we've provided. You were either spamming or you came to say something about me or someone else without naming what or who, you had no good intention or the balls to even say what you were thinking if you were thinking and not spamming. Take your high horse elsewhere because I won't hold my tongue in the presence of blind stupidity."

But see that's it WhereWasI - who are you to tell people that what they say is invalid just because it's not what you were looking for? By invalid, saying to her (and others) that they don't have a point, they spoke without thinking, they didn't have a reason to speak.

In this case, Swamp said was on her mind, and it was a valid statement - an observation that was made while listening to everyone here. You didn't get what she was saying, so once again you made it about you and started in on her to get her to spell it out for you. Just because you didn't get it, doesn't mean that others didn't, and you didn't need to tell her to get off her "high horse" because you took offense to her words.

The only one who is "spamming" now is you -  I will not have you responding to her with the same repetitive drivel that you have been sprouting in this conversation to everyone else. You ought to be ashamed of yourself to go after people in the manner that you are doing in an effort to get a (negative) reaction from people.

"If that's all you can say in response to that then you really don't think, but I encourage you to keep speaking so people can learn exactly what not to say and better understand the mindset of people who make statements like your original one."

Swamp_Rat, you're pretty much saying that we all live and die. That basically, it's just the circle of life, and that shit happens.

Well, sure, it is.

But that shit happening gets so much more interesting with people like WhereWasI around, people who have the brains and the balls to stand up and challenge the status quo. Because without those people, the ones who are willing to ask questions, the ones who are willing to stand up and take whatever reaction comes, the ones who DO have the balls to stand up and be counted, we all of us, stand for nothing.

There's little point standing for something if you can't or aren't willing to defend it, if you say it without challenge, you're basically just... saying it. Making noise. Which is fine, I guess.

But personally, I'd rather be the kind of person who's willing to stand up for her opinions, regardless of what anybody else has to say about that - and I know I have my own critics with that, but I would rather stand for what I believe and take shit for it, than sell out and stand for nothing.

And that's what WhereWasI is doing. He's making people stand for what they believe in. He's making people think, he's making them defend. And in my opinion, what he is doing, his willingness to challenge people, is healthy for our world.

Thank god he is willing to speak out. More of us need to.

I've stood deaf for most of this debate/topic so if the words I speak have been spoken earlier I could care less since they were not my own.

When my blood first arrived to these shores, they valued the worth of a CL and aspired to be one. They earned, shot, robbed and stayed active within their families hoping to make a name for themselves. Now, I could give two shits about what has become a popularity contest for many. Worth is being put more into a coffee shop name then overall work and determination. People fresh off the boat are being lured to crews/cities with the promise of being next in line or a hand without ever doing or showing anything of worth other than family name.

Now maybe they were just in awe back then and had blinders to how things were handled or maybe it was just more subtle. Who knows, all I know is that the worth of a CL seems to have dropped massively, it's basically like the "sacred button", if you're breathing and know someone...welcome to the family!

Before I walk away, I know there are some people who have earned their spot based on the merits of their own name, not their parents. I have the utmost respect for them and what they've accomplished.

Blaise for the love of God, appreciate that there is somebody out there willing to make people react, willing to make them think, willing to challenge. THANK FUCKING GOD.

Our world gets, frankly, boring as shit at times. The repetitive drivel you speak of, doesn't come from the kind of challenge WhereWasI is making, it comes from the same shit over and fucking over without a word said to make a difference, without a murmur of challenge, without any kind of drive to make people think.

When we all brainlessly go about our daily business, when we see each announcement from our higher ups and say, "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir", when we just shrug and nod or avoid an argument or discussion because it's easier, when we write off the people who don't do that - THAT is when we give ourselves over to repetitive drivel.