Diablos walks into the streets, turning up his collar to deflect the cold evening breeze. He mulls things over in his head for a long time before finally deciding to make his voice heard.

"I'm not going to pussy foot around and make some long drawn out speech, I'm getting straight to the point. Time and time again, we all have seen and experienced people leaving their crew in the midst of a war. What do you all think about this so-called "Ship Jumping"? When, if ever, is it okay?"

He pauses for a moment and sighs.

"The second and last thing I would like to address tonight is something we saw in the last war: When is it okay for a crew leader to turn, or stop helping their Godfather or the person that authed them?"

Diablos raises an eyebrow to the crowd before continuing.

"I would love to hear your opinions on these subjects, as I think both topics would be up for debate."

If it's in your benefit, why not? :D

If you really think that leader has no chance then you should leave if the costs are less than the benefits. The costs also include possibly pissing off a bloodline, getting shot anyways, and being tainted a turn-coat... but if you think the benefits of keeping yourself alive outweigh the costs then you probably should :D

So, Mr Hawk, you liked going against the Godfather when it was in your favor, but it's not okay for a person to do the same to a Crew Leader? A Godfather makes a much larger deal making his auths on average than a Crew leader does for there members on average. Seems kind of contradictory to me :D

Why is it okay for a Leader who was given more than a typical member? Why is the bigger betrayal okay for you? :D

It's good that you admit to it, because it would be lying to yourself otherwise, most likely. I believe that everyone acts on there own interests, even acts for 'the greater good' are to make people think your that type of person and there are benefits in that. Obviously not everyone sees this way, but I wanted to explain why I think it's the same thing since you were nice enough to respond :D

I say the admit part as a compliment, my bad if it came off as anything else because I think it's good to be honest with yourself.

"The second and last thing I would like to address tonight is something we saw in the last war: When is it okay for a crew leader to turn, or stop helping their Godfather or the person that authed them?"

Well since my father was one of the people who died during this past war, and the family he was a part of, and I am a part of, is the family you're referencing here, I figured I'd give my answer to that question.

And my answer is this: When it has been several hours, and your family members are dying, and the family members of your fellow citymates are dying, and there has been absolutely zero communication from the Godfather, or from anyone else who is purportedly "in charge", then, as far as I am concerned, it is time to do whatever you have to to protect your family. 

The simply fact of the matter is that it was made clear, to some, that this entire war was one giant clusterfuck. My father grew increasingly disillusioned with the lack of communication, the lack of effort on behalf of the North Side to organize a counterattack, and the lack of any leadership being shown that he grew disgusted and actively began campaigning TokyoZombi to do whatever it took to get her family out alive. 

"This is gross." "Absolutely sickening." These were the exact words my father used to describe the war, and the "reaction" from the North Side.
 

I applaud TokyoZombi's efforts in securing her family, and I only wish that we had been able to save more lives that were needlessly lost in this slaughter. 

Wouldn't Miss Zombi have been one of the people expected to be doing the leading in that situation? I don't get why orders had to come from the very top... I understand why she wanted to live but I don't get why a lack of orders from others when she could've (and maybe she was, I wouldn't know this things) been giving those orders herself justifies a move by itself :D

*Numbers4Glory takes a moment to think about the question posed and listens to the murmuring voices in the crowd before stepping forward*

Ultimately the politics of our world is considerably more involved than days gone by, and unfortunately many of the things that happen behind the scenes are never known to the masses which can make it seem like some of the decisions are rather puzzling.

Without reference to any particular event my general viewpoint is quite simple. Never. If you have made a decision to work together with someone that decision should be honored. It does of course get more complicated when individuals choose to act out of their own interest and they are no longer looking after the best interests of the family or the district.

As a crewleader your first responsibility is always to your family and making sure every decision you make is in keeping with their best long term interests. I value my family above all, but at the same time I know that the people I choose to align myself with would never put me in a position where they would ask me to act against the interests of my family.

*Numbers stops for a moment, takes a puff on his cigar and lets his mind wander back to the stories his grandaddy would tell him*

We all need to make our own decisions in this world, and you trust your crewleader to make the best one for your family. That is all that should matter in my opinion. Jumping ship is a complicated process and one people are seldom fully informed on.

*Numbers ushers his bodyguards to get moving and disappears back into the crowd*

Because... she wasn't.... the head of the city? When you get into a situation like the one we were in, you expect the head of the city, or their designated representative, to start communicating with the people under them. Then those people can disseminate the information to the people under THEM. 

The head of the city gathers their troops, organizers their hitters, organizes their pro wackers, and has their designated representatives set up the appropriate contingency plans should they ever have a war declared upon them. 

If in the middle of a war, you have people just shooting willy nilly and flying around without being ordered to, it devolves into complete and utter chaos with the possibility of even more people dying needlessly. 

Haven't none city heads run wars before? :D

Isn't a Crew Leader a leadership position? The problem listed sounded like a leadership problem, so wouldn't she share in the blame?

Sometimes the head doesn't have time when they don't launch the attack, that's why most people try to catch their targets at an inopportune time :D

As much as people like to believe you can plan for everything... you can't. You can only plan based on how hard you're gonna get hit and how hard you can hit back but that gets tricky in today's day and age when it's not always easy to know who all will be getting attacked and who all will be doing the attacking :D

The final part again just sounds like there wasn't anyone to step up and take the lead. I don't know the inner workings of either side, to be honest, but based off the info you've provided I feel she should've done more. That being said obviously there were a lot more factors than we will ever know and I would've done the same in her shoes if I could, I'm just saying chalking a whole decision up to one thing she could've helped solve sounds contradictory and foolish. It was a complex issue with many factors :D

*Chapo looks at everyone and starts feeling confused*

Loyalty is a strong thing, for me it would never be okay to leave a Crew. Because a crew should be your home, where all your brothers and sisters are. "Blood makes you related, loyalty makes you family" These are words to live by and not to take as a joke.

*Chapo stops for a moment, then notices he has everyone's attention on him*

Leaving a Godfather is a different story, remember that most of the time you are most likely closer to your Crew leader than you are to your Godfather, and here comes loyalty again, where is it at? With your Godfather or with your Crew Leader? That is up to you, a question only you can answer. But running should never be an option, it is your family for a reason, you should be willing to give your life for it if necessary, not "Because you felt like if you were useless".

*Chapo is interrupted by one of his bodyguards, he hands him a phone, Chapo then turns around and leaves the room*

Why is it okay for a Crew Leader to go a different path than a Godfather, but not for a member to see things differently from their Crew Leader? There is more investing in a Crew Leader by a Godfather than a member gets invested in by a Crew Leader? I see it as the same thing, I just don't get why the one more invested in gets away with it because they say it's for their members and the member can't do it if they don't see eye to eye with the Crew Leader which is the usual reason Crew Leaders go against Godfathers.

Also, wouldn't the members be safer if the Crew Leader snuck those members into other families, if possible? That would accomplish the same thing, save more from the follow up shots, and it wouldn't require the leader being saved for them to be saved. Wouldn't that be better for the members?

On the topic of ship jumping he rubs his chin thinking to a recent event.

Not so long ago i was employed by Emeritus in the suburbs, he had been an old friend of my fathers before my father's passing.  He knew I needed a temporary safe haven as a war was on and Emeritus wasn't a target.   With the bloodshed ensuing, Emeritus decided to bolster his shooting skills as i attempted to learn the art of the gun and even with a lack of ranges behind me, still picked up a few spoils of war and a few bullet holes in my car.  Soon an order came down from JakeLuciano saying don't shoot the unsponsored.  I understand the mercy option behind this, but having watched time and again safelisted people pro rogues or become rogues Zmeika a prime example of this in NY long ago.  Both me and Emeritus shook our heads although Emeritus of course gave the order to be loyal to his Godfather.  I pro'd Emeritus and then said to him i don't agree with the Godfather and i know you don't and i will organise my way out and planned a move to Bodie's crew with Emeritus's consent.

Quickly i noticed members of the fallen crews joining rogues as predicted or the families they were allied too and began helping strip the defences of Voodoo's crew.  I had jumped ship, was it to save my ass.. nope, it actually put me in more danger.  Was it understood why by my boss of course. Did i make sure nothing fell back on him of course.

Rubbing his chin again, he looks at the second point

As for a leader turning on his Godfather, i say is perfectly allowable.  Sometimes a Godfather doesn't fulfill his roll or is seen to fail in some aspects time devoted, communication or organisation sometimes all three.   Of course this is an objective thing.   Not everyone is meant to be a leader, the same can be said in the past for Godfathers. 

A recent example I received was a short mail of someone before someone took their life, on how their district head failed them, how other members were unhappy with the family and how hard it was to keep going some days.   He explained how whatever he did it was felt that the family was doomed to death either way and this is how his upper echelons felt.  Now he could of shot, possibly killed the Godfather on a 1% lucky shot, or caused the death of his entire family; or he could simply take his own life and see how the family spread itself from there.  It would be interesting at the same time, to see how many of those complaining about the district then stuck around there...  The choice is sometimes, what are you willing to lose, as is not just your life sometimes, but the lives of your family and the ties to certain other bloodlines and the reputation of your family down the line.  Not everyone cares for that smear of their reputation.  People say fortune favours the bold, but is also them bold who line the graveyards from trying to.  Plus suddenly with the death of a family leader,sometimes the people complaining, are happy to brown nose the same Godfather they condemned.  People can be very fickle unfortunately.   The worst part for this particular person is even till the end they felt ignored, their district head knew what would happen and couldn't even be bothered to reply before the suicide allegedly even though walking the streets.

It is not the same thing, like I said it depends on whether you are loyal to your Crew Leader or to your Godfather, since Godfathers have a lot of people sending them messages and all that, the low ranks might feel like if they are closer to their Crew Leader than they are to the Godfather, remember that as you get older in the game you meet more people, and let's say that you were really good friends with both the Godfather and the Crew Leader, but they started arguing and now the Crew Leader wants to take over Godfather position, you are technically in a spot between both of them because they are both your friends so you would have to decide one over the other and whoever is not chosen will probably be mad at you after, and this is where loyalty would take place, here is when you choose to defend what you believe in.

I get that you think it's different Chapo, but what makes it different? I don't get how betraying by switching sides is different when it's a member vs. a CL. The CL can claim they are acting for their members, but there are better ways to save their members than risking them assuming the other side will let them switch and at the end of the day they're saving themselves in the process so how selfless is it really?

Stepping forward from the crowd, Blublank1 clears his throat.

This one becomes a little more complicated, especially as a new player. When I first started, I had at least 3 families trying to recruit me. Unless you've been around the game for awhile, the politics of it are an unknown. Yous guys may not realize how much of a target new players are until they are sponsored.

It becomes a "Join or Die" situation for the Petty Thief in our world. One is considered a rogue, a target, a training objective if not sponsored. It's even worse when you realize that in order to climb the ladder of success, you NEED to be sponsored. 

 I may have joined the wrong family when I first started, seeing as my Crew Leader was dead within the week. The next family you ask? Started fine, then war broke out. While I was sleeping, my cities Don decided to start fighting. This put a target on my back, which didn't end well.

Pulling a flask from his pocket, Blu takes a quick nip of his whisky.

Had I known at the time, I may have jumped ship if only to preserve myself.  I wasn't a shooter, had no protection, and was a simple traveler.  My leaders poor decision to join a war we had no vested interest in left us reeling.  With that said, I do believe my new Crew Leader, and Godfather, has the best interests of New York crew members at heart. With this family, I will die before I leave.

Taking another sip of his liquor, Blu blends back into the crowd.

Basically what I am seeing is "Death before dishonor* which is a great policy, imagine if you ran away, yes you probably saved your life from getting killed, but what kind of life would you live? Knowing you left people that trusted you and helped you at some point behind.

*Chapo takes a drink to think for a moment*

Just remember fellas, blood in blood out. There are some hard choices we will have to do at some point in our lifes. This is a really important topic, but for me personally, I think loyalty is a key component of this, without loyalty we are nothing than rats running around, and loyalty not just superiors but to everyone in your family.