We all have friends. Some of us are close enough to be defined as a unity, while some of us aren't too fond of cliques. I have no problem with the people who aren't too high on those who share tags. I respect their wishes about how they like to do things, so I hope in return that they can show that respect. 303 tags are meant for 303303 members only, and I have a feeling that the same was supposed to go for Czylharz.

Do we shoot people wearing our tags? Not if we don't have to, but we will if needed. Some newer folks that might not know what 303303 exactly is, take it as a sigh of loyalty to their Godfather or leader. I ask these individuals to please remove the tags, and I've never had a problem when I've confronted them about it. They take it down and I explain why.

What happened not too long ago with Czylharz, wasn't Czylharz. Personally, to me, it was a disease that spread far beyond what it should've. Which in result, they turned their guns on each other. I'd like to call this time period more than something of Czylharz, because I think it really doesn't define what the group was about, and people got a false reflection of it, or a really poor one perhaps. Do I know anything at all about Czylharz? No. But I have a funny feeling that they aren't exactly that far from what 303303 represents, not to a tee, but I'm sure they have some similarities. If this was the true Czylharz a year ago, I believe they would still be standing and still in power at this very moment. I don't think it would've ever resulted to them turning their guns at each other.

Those under me know what I'm all about, I tell them the truth when they ask me questions. If they didn't want to be here for me, they wouldn't be. However, they look past the 303303 tags and know me for the person I am. They are loyalty to me and my vision and that's all that matters. They know I'm about the empire that we currently have standing here today, all left behind from the great Lord Toaly.

I'm getting a little off subject though, so I'm going to bring it back in.

I'm 303303. Love me or hate me for it, it's what I am. I respect those who don't agree and those who have their own thing. I wouldn't have agreed to be inducted into 303303 if I was about taking it, and what it stands for, in a serious manner.

PantiesBeDroppin smiles and winks, his silky smooth hair and diamond studded jewelry glistening like a motherfucker in the sunlight. Pimp Hand Strong

There seems to be a lot of recycling of old crew names, it happens every so often when an old timer becomes authed. Recently we've seen Czylharz and also DoG, 2 names that go way back. While Dawn of Glory never commanded any ever lasting bond between its members it was always recognized as a family which was ran under a legendary leader with a 200 strong crew. I think it's good to see on occasion these sorts of family names cropping up again as it gives us some memory of what once was and gives those carrying the old banners a chance to pay respect to their former families. Toaly's lineage began around the DoG era, along with my own and both of our ancestors have previously carried this banner with pride and it's great to see he did it justice once more. Czylharz was a different kettle of fish (I miss Cross and co!). Obviously the bond was stronger between this group of people and quite often you would see familar faces in the old #Czylharz coffee shop long after that era had gone. While I admire the fact that people wanted to pay homage to their former family by bringing it back, it would have been in their best interests to keep a lid on things. Mako was right on the money, those that didn't deserve to carry the name should have had it removed one way or another.

Sometimes it's best to stay original than to reinvent a legend and run the risk of tarnishing it :/

"Jono, when I hear the name Czylharz I remember reading in journals about the reactions of your ancestors, the TeQ bloodline, and a few others. About how different they were from the rest. About stories of loyalty lasting a decade's worth of generations. Specifically, the word loyalty came above all else. I'm not a fan of that kind of loyalty, or groups that claim to practice it because I don't believe it can actually be accomplished for long periods of time. In my mind it had, until that group came along, and I try to remember that and ignore the recent bit as much as I can."

"As for the recent nonsense itself, they were warned. I have journal entries of a lot of people telling them they shouldn't use the name. Doing so meant their members had to wear the tag and that felt wrong. Then, they started letting people who weren't even original member Crew Leaders use it as part of their crew name. By that time, it was already well on it's way to becoming just a very big, very ugly mass of people either blindly following JakeLuciano or plotting against each other. This was a run by individuals, some who happened to be Czylharz abusing the name. Not Czylharz. I have journal entries of a man scolding an ancestor of mine for not wearing the tag out of respect for the original meaning. Clearly... by that point I doubt they had any semblance of it's original meaning, despite having actual ancestors who were there. I still feel a rush of anger when I see someone inappropriately wearing the tag because of what it was supposed to mean, because despite my hatred of the stupid cliques some part of me always wanted this one to stay uncorrupted. In my mind I will try to remember Czylharz before that blighted time, but I will always believe it already has been corrupted and I don't know if anything could ever be done to fix that."

Time fixes all. I really wouldn't be particularly concerned IronSight. However, I'd like to question who specifically said we shouldn't use the tag, because there was no contest among us about it, except for RTL when he felt left out. 

My ancestor did.

Maybe they weren't Czylharz but I know of plenty of others. I won't drag others into this (I know, I bank on trust that I'm not lying a lot), but you know deep down there were a lot of people unhappy and uncomfortable with that.

Oh yes, my ancestor spoke about that with your ancestor, but my point stands that it wasn't a member that said it. 

Anyway, in due time, that idea of corruption should pass. If we can agree that something was wrong with the use of the name, we can also probably agree that the name did make a decent mark on history for the positive, and the negative. Perhaps with age, it will be looked at as a more fond time. 

That was exactly my point. It was a rhetorical question. 

As both me and my RHM bear the tag of the Czylharz family, I feel the need to present myself here and express my opinion on the topic you brought up Jono.

While neither of us is original Czylharz, we have been part of the late Godfather's JakeLuciano crew. When I joined that crew for the first time, I just decided I should wear that tag, my crew tag. At that point, it didn't really mean something to me. It was just a sign of loyalty to my crewleader. I've seen a lot of people wearing that tag, fighting each other and dying. The questions actually is, why didn't I remove that tag after JakeLuciano's retirement? It's not that I just had grown to like it, nothing like that. It was merely a token of gratitude towards Godfather JakeLuciano, who's name had been mentioned quite a few times in the streets. And while some people would bitch about his activity or question if he was worthy of the Godfather title I beg to differ. Wearing the Czylharz tag is my way of showing my respect to him. 

The Czylharz tag has nothing to do with my crew and I always instruct my associates to wear MY tag. I never claimed to be someone I wasn't and I don't plan on doing it either. While my descendants won't wear the Czylharz tag (and clearly they wouldn't have any reason to do it), I will wear it till my death. Because I believe that a part of a mafioso's life is to remember where he came from.

I hope that this little speech of mine cleared up any misunderstandings that might have occured. Good day to you, gentlemen

CookieZombie tips his hat, turns around and heads to the airport to catch his flight back to Los Angeles

A large enough number of your members abused the name for a political run that I can tell you I sincerely won't look at the group the same ever again. Glad it had good parts for you, would hate to think you destroyed a legacy and didn't get anything out of it, but no... time doesn't actually heal everything. It kills everything. Nothing lasts forever.

Heh. IronSight, don't be so short sighted. Think of it like graffiti on the outside of Egyptian tombs. The wind blowing sand and the rain will grind away at any contaminants. 

Cheers to those that did like it. 

I agree with both CookieZombie and SonnyCorleone view but understand where your coming from Jono.

*tips hat*

I too had fun and enjoy the unity we had as group it may be different from the pass, and maybe the people who still wear the Czylharz banner show's how much the meant to them?

I don't wear my first tag anymore: "Associate of the White Collar Crime Syndicate" anymore... (Hello Panda and a cool guy named Scumbag by the way, my first Senseis :). Doesn't mean I don't keep em, or other members of my 1st crew in my heart no more, coz they were my first teachers, and family...

But believe me: "Once a Misfit, Always a Misfit" will be seen on any of my profiles in the future...

I don't think someone wearing the czylharz tag without being an original czylharz would be "tarnishing" the very name y'all stood for. Apparently, being in a clique is all the rage as of now. So all I see is people merely trying to be a part of something. With the last huge czylled run sparked by the late godfather JakeLuciano, every family that branched out from his wore the czylharz tag, some of those crews still live today. You can't possibly blame someone for wearing the czylharz tag, if the name was a part of the crew tags of every czylharz family under Jake. Some of these people might have had the best moments of their career during this run, and hence I don't exactly find it odd that they wear it proudly to cherish good memories.

Also, these bloodlines may not exactly be old and may not have seen the other cliques who made a difference in this this of ours. The CPs, Who-Errs, you name it. They might just have that notion that czylharz was the only name that left a footprint worth remembering.

I do agree with Rags though. Being chilled at heart might have been something special to you Jono, but to others, it's just another clique. I don't mean to undermine your very purpose, but not everyone can see how important the whole thing is to you. You see it as a group of people who worked together and strived to make a difference. Others see it as a bunch of people lollygagging about. It's as simple as that. It is and always will be how cliques are generally looked at. The underlying mechanics and purpose of the whole thing isn't exactly apparent to all. Either way, I haven't seen an instance where the czylharz name was actually "tarnished" as you call it. I have seen other groups being ridiculed and mocked, say the CGs. Now you may be indignant or even offended that I've made such a comparison, but as I've stated earlier, most people don't see the difference. To them, you're just another clique.

My bloodline has witnessed the rise and fall of many of these groups, was even a part of those families, and still cherish moments worth remembering. So, to break it down, do I still wear a tag of one of those? No. Would it mean that it would be lack of respect if I wear one? No. And would I be allowed or rather, be "worthy" to wear one? I don't know. But I don't see any harm done, considering the clique started appearing in numerous family tags in the not so distant past.

Anyways, here's my two cents. This has been quite an intriguing topic to reflect upon.

I love how many people feel that they can tell someone that it's okay for others to use your thing that you care so much about so loosely. How would you feel if I used your toothbrush to get the gunk off of my shoes? I'd cherish the memory of your toothbrush serving my purpose for a short time... but would that be fair for you? Would you ever look at that abused toothbrush the same way again? No, no that wouldn't be fair and you sure as hell wouldn't look at that tooth brush the same way. To say you don't notice any difference or any harm done is to basically say you're intentionally avoiding looking for it. The Czylharz tag was supposed to be all about loyalty, it was used for selfish purposes in spite of the group's integrity. It's good for all of you that got a kick out of wearing the tag as your passing fad... really, but the fact something that had been kept sacred by that group for a decade was now being slapped on everything was a joke. You've all seen other groups... cool shit. I've seen other people, they the same as you too? There's a general format you both fit, why are you any different from any other person... I mean you both have a mouth, two hands and 23 pairs of chromosomes. How could you be any different? You really wanna pay homage to Jake or whoever... just put their name in your profile. Honestly what's the difference if you're doing it for one person if you put the tag or their name? And if you're looking to remember the group of individuals... why not just remember the leaders that brought you together. Why remember the passing fad that became a constant slap in the face for a once proud legacy?

Why remember the passing fad that became a constant slap in the face for a once proud legacy?

Sadly, some of those who caused that constant slap in the face are still incredibly proud of their hard work in doing so.