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| Packin' Up Fork and Hitting the Road | Started by: ThomasRourke on Feb 19, '09 18:46 |
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I'm assuming by SwingingBo's death that free speech is banned by the Gods now? You might as go the whole hog and delete his speech and accusations too. Wouldn't want anyone asking any more questions. |
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| Reply by: Corruption at Feb 20, '09 09:07 | |
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| Oh, and woot, woot. Gratz on the (totally fair and above board) promotions. | |
| Reply by: Corruption at Feb 20, '09 09:08 | |
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My father's death is probably the reason that those disgruntled at this move did not speak out, death is inevitable when certain people are asked questions of. How dare the ways of this world be questioned. Frankly, I still don't see why the gods killed him. The mafia bosses, understandable, the gods...*shrug*. Moving on, those were his mistakes, he's dead as a dodo, I'm a new man. To reply to the death note found in my father's room, I have some questions aimed at the Mafia bosses involved, this is no longer aimed at the gods, hopefully removing any unnecessary intereference from city hall. Thomas, surely you were in no position to become a Godfather, given that there was already a Godfather in your current (at the time) city. This is no reason for a move to another city that already has leaders. Leaders who are now denied a chance to live their mafia lives to the full potential. Surely, having the experience points was irrelevant, you were in no position to be a Godfather. We have to wonder why the gods bothered bringing it to your attention in the first place. That's their call though, right. If you, Thomas, were already being authed as I've heard from some quarters and that this, is infact, how this whole move came about, then why not have auth as a Don in Detroit, given that you have already said you are still working with Marietta. Why, also, would the following statement be made from who was indeed being set-up as a brand new auth: "I view this as stepping back from the hustle of every day life that I've endured so far, and am pleased to see Sal Giaquinto steer the city of New Orleans with a steady hand". Why not stay where you are and take a step back from the hustle. Starting a brand new family is no step back, it is a step into the hustle. |
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| Reply by: StillSwinging at Feb 20, '09 09:39 | |
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A couple more questions have sprung to mind actually, whilst you ponder. How is it a man becomes Godfather of a city that he is not, and has never been, part of? How does a man become Godfather full stop, when he has never run his own family, yet all existing cities already have existing leaders? In a recent speech, we were told that New Orleans belonged to Canada, whilst Chicago belonged to the Riot! How does it come to pass that a Right-Hand from the Riot! ends up in New Orleans where, conveniently, the highest ranking family leader is a Consigliere who may not be pushing for GF imminently. Regardless of Philly's agreement over the move, do Detroit really feel it's appropriate? I mean, beyond the lust for the Godfather rank. I mean, for the betterment of this thing of ours, is this more appropriate than just setting up your own family in Detroit if you really want one? Without the rank. Given that this is "an example of handling things without annihilating a city for an HQ", does that mean that you had decided you were having New Orleans, regardless of whether Philly/NO were receptive to it? Lucky for them they appear to have been. Or at least they were more receptive to that than the alternative. It is a slap in the face to the current incumbents from Detroit, whether intented or not. I would hazard a guess that people, including those not necessarily airing their true feelings here with us, might have more respect for this move if you had actually just taken the city as your own. Not that the apparent motives here are the right ones for either case. |
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| Reply by: StillSwinging at Feb 20, '09 10:59 | |
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Swinging, I am having a great deal of fun :) It's so strange that there are a minority of people who find this so offensive. It is a RARE thing still to be able to accumulate the pre-requisites required to become a Godfather. In fact SwingingBo's former family head should know that best. It's no walk in the park to attain this kind of thing. In our time within this world, Swinging, there have been few times that Detroit and Philly have done things that people would refer to as being a traditional way of doing business. Yet, for all the complaining over past decisions Detroit and Philadelphia made, we're still here, and actually enjoying bending the mold. I'm sorry that shatters the way many people think things should be done, but that's why we are where are. Call it arrogant, call it what you will, but we've always worked hard, and I would be surprised if anyone had it in them to dispute that. I didn't get to Godfather one day because the clouds opened up and the Gods said, "Hey noob, you've met the criteria you need to get the highest rank!" I got here because, frankly, I survived. I think the biggest misnomer people have is just because I was not a city head I shouldn't be entitled to becoming Godfather, when I believe I am equally, if not more so, qualified to be so. I have been 3rd in charge for the largest, most profitable city out of them all for months now, if you were to ask me I'd say I've taken my lumps. I've fought the wars, been shot at, gotten vocal in the Streets, resolved conflicts, and helped keep a city running smoothly for quite a while. There will always be people who say that things should be done another way, or there should be a traditional approach taken. As two cities with close ties, Detroit and Philadelphia have never looked at the decisions they make and say to themselves, "Well is this the way John Doe Ancestor would've done it?" I got tapped, and spoke with Jimmy about it, as we speak every day, and we came up with this idea. It was an opportunity that sprung forth out of the relationship we had with Philadelphia. I know it's a difficult concept to grasp, but when you work with people long enough, you are able to develop the trust that this type of maneuver needs. Swinging, you have admittedly not been around very actively so to step up every now and again to take potshots is easy, and might I add, very Jerusalem-esque. I'm out here in the grind every day, and will continue to be. All the best. |
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| Reply by: ThomasRourke at Feb 20, '09 11:43 | |
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I suppose I can field most of these questions you had, Swinging.
And have you all complain about yet another auth in Detroit? We found another way to give the man the chance he deserves and now we're getting backlash for not setting him up in a city where I already have seven bolds. I guess I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't? No. Fuck that. You people need to choose which side of the fence you are on because I'm tired of these double standard arguments you are all trying to build. From now on if you have a problem with how I do my business, I'll gladly talk to you with my fists rather than words, as that seems to be what you are all asking for.
It happened. I have and always will preach diversity while I am alive. I will always look for doing things differently, for things to go against the grain. Why? Because that is the difference between someone who is remembered and someone who fades into anonymity. This is a business agreement that so far is shaping up nicely for all parties involved.
You honestly think that if Jimmy (who yes, played a larger part in this decision than I myself did) had denied the proposal we would've slaughtered them? If the man had said no it would've stopped there. I respect him far too much to do anything to the business empire he has built. I am not selfish, as you may have noticed, because everyone in this world who have been down trodden upon are finally getting chances to get the ranks and the shots at positions they have worked hard for. Jimmy has earned his spot in this Thing of Ours- far be it from me to be the one to remove him for no reason whatsoever. I am a woman who stands by her convictions. If you work hard for me, you will be rewarded. Period. This was, of course, my reasoning behind moving your late father's boss to his own city so that he could expand and, in the near future, become Godfather. Am I to deny that chance to everyone else who works hard for me, just because they're not the popular choice with your 'in' crowd? It's unconventional. It shook things up. What's done is done and it's over. And besides, I really don't recall myself, or Jimmy, or Thomas for that matter, asking for public opinions when we made this decision. Like I said, I'm always ready and willing and available to "talk". For now, though, this is a speech and a public arena for those who are celebrating this new occasion. If you want to call out our decisions or our characters, do so on another street corner. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Feb 20, '09 11:51 | |
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Marietta, I have no problem with anything here, but if you are going to claim that you preach diversity, you should practice it as well. Authing your RHM doesn't qualify as "diversity", nor does authing a host of your besties. Diversity is authing people who are potential enemies, for the sake of allowing people with goals and interests different from your own to have a place to go and prosper. Anita did this, and the result was a community as large as the current one, without advertising. Diversity is authing people that represent various cliques in that other world that so many of us spend 99% of our time inhabiting. There should be obvious differences between families, and belonging to any particular families should have a unique feel to it. Right now, you could be a member of one of the numerous Detroit families (diversity?), a Chicago family, and perhaps even a New Orleans or Philly family, and you would pretty much be among the same crew. In fact, when a war breaks out, the recent trend of the last year or so has been every family attacking a single city or crew. This would not happen if families were unique and had their own agenda. The alternative to doing things this way is risky, but it is the way things have often been done and it made things much more interesting. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Feb 20, '09 12:03 | |
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Butt_Ox you have made a very fair point. I think one of the greatest obstacles to overcome when you become the top dog is dispersion of power. I don't think at any one time there has been a period that hasn't been controlled by one group or another. However, if I had to make an absolute argument I would say that there has been a lot more effort to keep this place in motion under this regime. In my time in Detroit, I can say unequivocally that we never opposed any city implementing any kind of mandates within their confines, and we would adhere to them fully. The Detroit Tax has been incredibly successful, and I think there are certainly some mindsets that seem to always revert back to the train of thought that if there isn't war or conflict there isn't diversity. I think so long as people are motivated, which I personally see illustrated by the rampant quantity of Dons and other high ranks, then everything is still progressing. I personally hope to see the other cities continue to evolve with their own rules and auths. |
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| Reply by: ThomasRourke at Feb 20, '09 12:22 | |
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(Thomas, we have to stop meeting like this.) I always appreciate your advice, caring and love butt_ox, but I can say with 99.9% certainty that I am not "authing my besties". In fact I am, in truth, only really friendly with two or three of the current leaders away from this world in my spare time, and that of my closest of friends and family, three of four current reside within my own headquarters. I am doing my best to auth with diversity, even transferring two large cogs in my RIOT! wheel (Guardian and Thomas) to different cities to do their own thing. The only city that I am probably playing favoritism to is, yes, my own. But I can say, again with certainty, that I did not handpick the captains that are currently set up, and that I give free reign to my crews on decisions that affect themselves (if it impacts my city, I of course have the right to veto). If they ever need me, you bet your ass I am there, but I am not overseeing their daily agendas. In fact, to cite an example, I believe the only thing Nicky and I had in common before he moved to Detroit was the fact that we both knew Hayley. I do my best to give people chances as they are provided. I have authed people who are lower than me on the 'skill' ranks, I have recently authed people who are far superior to me in the 'skill' ranks. I'm not here to create a unified world of my buddies. I'm here to make sure that everyone's getting their slice of the pie, despite who they are. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Feb 20, '09 12:24 | |
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Ah yes, stock answer #43513, if in doubt, answer that you did it because you can and that things don't always have to work how they have in the past. Correct, you can, and correct, they don't. For all the empty words, you know exactly why people are unhappy at this. You know also that no-one is unhappy for reasons of self-interest, rather than the interest of these shores. There is only one display of self-interest being shown, it is as clear as the day. Thomas, It is undeniable that it's taken a lot of hard graft to get here but, as an example, had the current leaders of N.O. not grafted to earn their positions. What does the future hold for them now. A dead end not long down the road? Whilst you lay out your ambition of taking a back seat and relaxing? Bravo. You could do that where you were. You note that you still expect Sal to steer the good ship Orleans, in that case just why bother with this whole facade if you are indeed bringing nothing to New Orleans, beyond a lust for a rank that you aren't going to earn in that city? Which is it, are you "out here in the grind every day", or do you want to take a back seat? I'm getting confused signals, probably from confused motives. Marietta, I've never complained about Detroit auths. There are too many auths for our population, as it happens, yes, but there are no double standards here. Diversity is brilliant, you've done more for this place than everyone else in recent times. However, your diversity in this case is stifling. Infact, I think you know and everyone else knows that it is not actually diversity at all. You also seem to be confused. I have no 'in' crowd, I stand here alone. The 'in' crowd (I suppose you put it that way because you realise it's not desirable) are actually you guys. On the contrary, I feel I had to speak up for those that aren't part of the back-slapping, congratulatory 'in' crowd. |
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| Reply by: StillSwinging at Feb 20, '09 12:38 | |
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I understand that my response here will be immediately judged for my position with Marietta, but why is there hostility specifically for Thomas moving to New Orleans? When tapped by the Gods above and informed of his close proximity to Godfather, Thomas chose to move to the one city remaining without an active Godfather and without a Don near the rank. Would he be vilified further if he had moved to Las Vegas or Chicago instead? Most likely. If any of us were in his shoes and were presented with an option to be Godfather like this, I doubt anyone would refuse. |
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| Reply by: RourkeyRourke at Feb 20, '09 12:51 | |
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Moan bitch and then moan bitch some more. Man stick a sock in it. Seriously. People whine and cry daily that things here are getting boring we need to stir things up. Something was done to stir things up and boohoo the whiners come out. I am just as much to blame for this whole thing. When approached with the idea I thought it was a good one. There was no mention of war or anything of the likes. After much talks with Mr. Rourke I believed it to be a profitable decision for Philly and NO. Now I will not divulge any of the aspects of our talks but rest assured I would not have allowed this had I not thought it would be beneficial. You say my people have no room for advancement in NO. I beg to differ. For the time being Thomas is renting his HQ and at anytime I can ask him to move to give my guys in NO the chance to move up. The only thing is, where does he move and who do we kill to move him? Any suggestions please? Also if it took this much to get people out into our streets I am well willing to do more unorthodox things that go against the grain. |
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| Reply by: JimmyTheLionHeart at Feb 20, '09 12:55 | |
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Of course. I do know why people are unhappy at this. Because Thomas has achieved a rank that many people in the past have fought for and never obtained. In fact I believe there was a grand band of men and women back in October who tried to make such a play... you know, self-interests and such.
I know I'm not Thomas but I felt the need to answer anyway. The big picture that you are missing, though, is that while Sal is making decisions for New Orleans, he is doing so on behalf of Godfather Jimmy. You said it yourself in earlier diatribe- Canada controls New Orleans. This decision was strange, yes, and I know it's not the same world you come from where you coldcock someone on the verge of Godfather two days before they're meant to get it, but we're not all upstanding, classy citizens like your forefathers.
So am I diverse or am I not diverse? I'm not quite understanding. It's fine if I'm diverse when, say, I move your father's former Detroit Crew Leader to Chicago to become a Godfather at a later time, but it's not diverse when I move another one of my Detroit citizens to another city to do the same? Yes. I'm a horrid bitch like that, stifling diversity. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Feb 20, '09 13:03 | |
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| Jimmy, this doesn't stir things up in the slightest. | |
| Reply by: StillSwinging at Feb 20, '09 13:04 | |
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Obviously it has, if, as you claimed, "For all the empty words, you know exactly why people are unhappy at this." If people are unhappy, it's obviously caused a stir. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Feb 20, '09 13:08 | |
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I actually said the back seat I would take is in regards to the decisions made in New Orleans. Like most old people though, I'm still going to be active in the Streets voicing crotchety opinions about pretty much anything. Jimmy owns New Orleans, Sal is his guy in the city, but Jimmy also gave me a shot to plant a flag here. I'm not sure why the two have to be mutually exclusive in your eyes, or why me moving to New Orleans leads to a dead end. Sal Giaquinto is a very capable guy, to say it would lead to a dead end is just insulting to his talents and efforts. Marietta had many of her greatest accomplishments before getting Godfather, and I think Sal has a lot of promise to follow the same path. I'm not surprised that there are some unhappy parties, but for what it's worth you are falling into some great company. And it's not transparent at all as to why you as an individual are unhappy about it. |
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| Reply by: ThomasRourke at Feb 20, '09 13:20 | |
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| Obviously the pot has been stirred as much unrest has come over this decision. Had it not been stirred would you still be out here? I mean if we keep up on this trend of you being in the streets you may reach the amount of times your father was out here...Omg I know its strange. | |
| Reply by: JimmyTheLionHeart at Feb 20, '09 13:20 | |
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Well, going off of what Thomas alluded to... It's quite obvious where all this seeming "outrage and anger" stems from, and for that you have my deepest sympathies, StillSwinging. To hang onto bitter feelings for months and months only drives yourself down into the ground, and I hate to say it but you'll just end up dragging your family friends down with you. Instead of getting up off your laurels and making something of yourself like other family lines in the October War, you continue to revel in the past and to be honest it just makes you look silly. Guardian and KingOfOnePercent are two perfect examples of men getting back in the saddle and taking their lives by the reigns. They are achieving new heights every day, while you only care to comment and jump back into this lifestyle when it suits you to be angry and reminisce about your past. As much as I'd like to consider anything you've said as a valid argument... I can't possibly. Perhaps if you were a man free and clear of all this residual fury then I could take it in stride. Knowing, however, that most of what you are saying is most likely fueled by your bloodline's past failures... |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Feb 20, '09 13:39 | |
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I like the "lets play the he's-bitter card" tactic, nice. Alas, no, you're wrong. That was a long, long time ago. Infact, the only talk of it here is by yourself, Marietta. I've not replied to that before now because it's a complete irrelevance with regards to the current discussion. It is solely because I have my (real)life back after a few months of bizarre intensity, that I'm able to speak my mind at times like these. Way to try and divert attention though, go yous. Keep trying. Thomas, you should know that, I've already told you in MMs that it was nothing personal. As for bitterness, I don't think I've criticised Marietta once before now. Chuck some mud if you feel better though, tis no prob, for the same reason I can speak my mind freely these days, I won't mind a bit. If you don't mind, I won't get into the pettiness. One bit does warrant a response though, the final part; Incase you misunderstood Marietta, I'm saying that for the most part, yes, you are reasonably diverse but that, no, this time you are not, you are stifling. We'd be better off if you just left it at "Listen, we did this because we fucking can and because Thomas wanted to be a Godfather. Beyond that, there is absolutely no benefit to Philly, New Orleans or Detroit. Yes, it's a drawback for other people, but fuck it, we're in charge - tough shit. Now, fuck off." At which point, I say "It still reeks to fuck, but finally, a seed of honesty.". Job done. |
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| Reply by: StillSwinging at Feb 20, '09 14:22 | |
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StillSwinging, here's what I don't understand, you want things stripped to bare honesty. You want us to say, "Hey we did this because can etc. etc.", when to be honest I didn't really see us asking for anyone's input to begin with? It's not like we held a quorum vote did we? Because we didn't term things exactly the same as your example with a few additional "fuck"s, it means we haven't been honest? How laughable. I saw a shot to become something very few people have the opportunity to be, and I took it. On the topic of keeping things above board, it is quite amusing coming from someone who represents this mysteriously shrouded consortium of "people" to voice an opinion. How chilling. Who are you to question anything when you perpetuate cowardice? You enable others to stay silent; the lack of stones that takes is mesmerizing. The only people worth their salt are the ones out here talking. Oh I know, you're just protecting them because killing people for their opinions has really been our M.O. You want diversity? How about letting people speak their own mind, because unless my math is fuzzy, having differing opinions is certainly diversified, as that is the word of the day. So yes, he of the "people", we're the ones who are stifling everyone else. We are the ones voicing other peoples' opinions so they don't get found out for, shock, gasp, horror, not sharing a similar stance as us. By becoming this faceless opinion, you have only served to add on to making people non-individualized. Congratulations. |
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| Reply by: ThomasRourke at Feb 20, '09 16:18 | |
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