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| Lose/Loose, Rogue/Rouge, Sally/ForkRourke | Started by: ThomasRourke on Apr 15, '09 04:53 |
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Showing a youngster the ropes and teaching him his trade is one thing. I show many and will show many more the ways of this world. It is how we have all come to be, having had an advisor to help us come up from nothing so we might prove ourselves one day when the time comes. However, I will not chastise him or her, or make death threats because he can not read the morning paper where someone lunatic wrote in about spelling mistakes. I will not badger them because they were not afforded an education, though they work harder than any before them. This is not how i run my family, and if this makes me a poor leader, I am sorry you feel that way... |
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| Reply by: High_SocWinter_Hill at Apr 15, '09 12:44 | |
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You honestly think I harass people in the ways you mention? If so you are extremely wrong and have, without a doubt, offended me beyond belief. I too show many youngsters the ways of the world, but I also take it one step further and teach them not only lessons that apply to this Thing Of Ours, but can apply to other aspects of their lives as well. I take my role as a leader and mentor very seriously, Mister Hill. Much more than you yourself do. It seems you teach the men and women in your HQ how to be better mobsters for you. I teach men and women how to be better mobsters for themselves. I'm not foolish enough to assume I will live forever, and I want my associates and their bloodlines to at least be able to have enough basic skills to work elsewhere should it be deemed necessary. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Apr 15, '09 12:50 | |
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I in no way implied how i think you or any organization here operates here, i am merely stating this is not how i run my organization. Do not presume to know whether or not i take role as a leader seriously in my small section town. I take it as seriously as any here and more so in some cases. I can not spoon feed everyone, i need to let them out of the nest at some point once they have acquired the knowledge necessary to thrive on their own in this world. Learning is a process, an experience, a part of life. As those learn from i so shall i from them. And it seems Grammar is the topic of the day. Learn up Folks reading at home! |
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| Reply by: High_SocWinter_Hill at Apr 15, '09 13:10 | |
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And you think I coddle people too much? That somehow the people you teach are better off than the ones in my care? That the people I teach cannot thrive on their own? Look around you, Sir. Most of this world is made up of leaders that I personally have worked with. Learning is a process, an experience, a part of life indeed. Apparently whatever I'm doing, I must be doing well. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Apr 15, '09 13:18 | |
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In any case, I feel my piece has been said here. I hope no one feels disrespected, i simply state that Though we tell stories of our travels here, no one of us is perfect, and therefore should practice as we preach. We all learn something new everyday, and as such should take consideration in teaching new faces everyday here be it we are leaders or simply mentors of some sort in the place we call home... There was a time we to needed help to understand the ways of the world. Everyone think of this when scolding a small one for a trivial mistake... Thank You ~HS |
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| Reply by: High_SocWinter_Hill at Apr 15, '09 13:18 | |
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Rourkey pours himself a glass of whiskey. I do most of my scolding with bullets rather than words. There's nothing like a nice scolding in the arm. |
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| Reply by: RourkeyRourke at Apr 15, '09 13:35 | |
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| Ahh yes Rourkey, the old scold 'em in the arm treatment. I remember this from the academy actually. gets the job done eh? heh heh | |
| Reply by: High_SocWinter_Hill at Apr 15, '09 13:40 | |
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I only have one comment in regard to High Soc's words of wisdom.... The problem these days is people think that very thing. They they can do whateeever they want, and should anyone say otherwise Boom! Head shot! But let someone misuse the word their in they're sentence and by god there done for!! Your statements seem contradictory. If people who say otherwise get shot in the head, then isn't it true that these implied tyrants can do whatever they want? The mafia is ruled by power. If you have enough power, you can, in fact, do whatever you want. For someone who is taking the position of the fundamental mobster with no time for the finer points, you seem adverse to the concept of using power. P.S. I can do whatever I want. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 15, '09 14:27 | |
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I think everyone is getting quite confused with the point I was trying to make. It has nothing to do with apostrophes, it has to do with common decency. When words sound exactly alike (homonyms) I could care less if a mistake has been made. What does bother me is when people are oblivious to the fact they make completely new words with different and more idiotic pronunciations. When I'm strolling down the street I don't want Noir to come scurrying up to me yelling, "Look Boss, de rouge de rouge!" It's a matter of courtesy. Maybe I'm spoiled from making my bones in a family such as The Riot, but I personally believe anyone worth their salt that gets promoted to a rank I'm supposed to respect should think through what they're going to say before opening their mouth. I have people addressing me, a Godfather, and not having the ability to speak properly because of carelessness. That might be okay for say a Don who has similar viewpoints on gutter-speak. It is not okay with me. |
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| Reply by: ThomasRourke at Apr 15, '09 14:29 | |
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| It is not the i am opposed to the use of power, it is that i am opposed to the use of power in trivial matters such as Death Threats for lack of comma's? Perhaps i communicated my point incorrectly, and if so my apologies | |
| Reply by: High_SocWinter_Hill at Apr 15, '09 14:31 | |
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| Thomas just clarified that he wasn't handing out death sentences for lack of punctuation in people's street posters. He was speaking about misuse of words that sound nothing alike. | |
| Reply by: Marietta at Apr 15, '09 14:35 | |
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Tommy boy, my brother from a different mother (and father) You know what happens when you get your panties in a bunch, you get the sweats and the rash. Its not attractive old boy. Pip pip. |
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| Reply by: ZebRourke at Apr 15, '09 14:35 | |
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*KA laughs and sits on the bench across the street reading the dictionary, but speaking like a hoodlum* Come on people. We can't judge a book by its cover. I'd never rub my intelligence in the face of our youngster. Yeah I said youngsters. Alot of the mobsters around here are youngsters just like we were years ago. Hell I'm old as dirt, Sal too (little humor to lighten up this situation), but who cares. It seems a section of our community does care and wants to take action. Action being killing. All I'm saying is how can you distinguish who's mispelling, dum, ignorant, or like me, just choose to talk in their everyday slang? There is a time and a place. Personally, I don't feel the street corners in a mob environment is the place. Maybe over on IRC Avenue or OOC Blvd. For now, I have to pick up my degree-less buddies and run this whore ring real quick. *stands up off the bench, pulls a joint from behind his ear, and lites it as he heads over to the slums* |
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| Reply by: Kingston_Assassin at Apr 15, '09 14:38 | |
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DaisyY approaches these established mafioso on the street because she can hear their debate from around the corner If I may take a second, as someone fresh off the boat in this world, to explain how I view this matter? Daisy begins slowly at first because she is very intimidated by these huge faces in the Underground world who are now staring her down Godfather Rourke I can understand your opinion about people making mistakes in their grammar while addressing you. Then I also can understand High_SocWinter_Hill's point about how people who are fresh off the boat, and mind you lots are from completely different countries, do not always know the difference between their and there. Is this to say that that person should be shot over it. Would you be willing to risk the lives of your family because someone couldn't adress you with the proper spelling of rogue? I do understand that you have achieved the rank of Godfather, and from my time here I have learned that attaining that position is no small feat. I respect you for that, but from what I gathered aren't you supposed to be doing what you can as leaders to establish your communities and bring new people to these shores? This world is all about interaction between the inhabitants of these fair cities, and if people are living in fear that the next thing they say could get them killed, then we are going to be living in a world of hermits that are afraid to come out and address the masses. I know that this is the first time I have addressed anyone, and I chose to come out and debate a topic that the Godfather of NY himself has brought up. I also know that I am new to this world and do not have an established bloodline, and am prepared to face the harassment about that. I just think that we need to sit down and think about the fact that not everyone that comes to this country has an education and can speak scholarly. Just something to think about. |
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| Reply by: DaisyY at Apr 15, '09 15:23 | |
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ThomasRourke- What can I say? My objection to your idea seems to have sparked something. Not too bad for a nobody right? I may well be mistaken but ... The words are spelled very similar. Hence it is quite easy to say them wrong. (Since we are bleeping typing here and and its not actually about pronunciation. They may be pronounced completely different but if their spelling is similar mistakes are gonna happen.) See, your complaint makes no sense to me. Hearing someone say "Hey, there they are. Let's kick their asses. They're the ones who shot Tommy." will sound exactly like Hey They're they are. Let's kick there asses. Their the ones who shot Tommy." I mention this only because you brought it up early on. I don't think it's possible to dumb this down any more. You say it's because of words that sound so different. Yet in this world we see each others' speech more often than not. Not hear. Thus their pronunciation is very close, not extremely far off. A point a man who seems quite intelligent must be intentionally ignoring. DocRoe- You did indeed attack my way of speaking. You said and I quote "That is little more than friendly banter behind which is a veiled observation about the fact you'd made an effort to try and retort in an intelligible fashion. Ironically, your reply wasn't as coherent as was probably intended." This is quite clear in what it says. You are saying I failed to be logical, failed to be understandable, failed to be intelligible. Above and beyond that you say I looked up words specifically to make myself appear more educated than I am. I find those to be attacks sir. Marietta- Be it grammar or spelling it is the same thing. Something so very trivial that does not affect how a member benefits their family in the long run. High_Soc never once implied you do not care about your family, the skills he give are more valuable, or any such similar thing. He merely stated he does not worry if his people's speech is perfect. Only that they do indeed benefit the family. Your comment about wacking us for having an opinion does reflect badly on you however. Butt-Ox- I do not believe I am perfect. However, you are wrong about the possessive its and compound for it is. Please let me explain. Thomas' things. Johnny's things. Marietta's thing. All possessive. All using the 's suffix. It's things. Also possessive. yeah, I've also used a bunch of sentence fragments too. Now, for disagreeing with the Godfather and Godmother when I am, as the godfather put it "a random nobody Goomba", I may be shot by the Godmother, as apparently may the others who have agreed with me. If this is the case I shall not greatly mind as I have stood up for what I believe in and will probably teach my sons and grandsons to do the same. However it will sadden me if these things do happen now or in the future for the reasons discussed above. Though an even better point comes to me. A Godfather controls his family and his family alone. If you wish to have those under you speak perfect English and wish to invest in their studies...It's your prerogative. Or if you only wish to accept those who speak eloquently. It's your prerogative. However what seemed to be suggested was shooting anyone who does speak poorly for having the temerity to speak to certain "Great Ones" without sounding like they attended college when the many of the truly Great Ones of our past could not do so. |
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| Reply by: Los_Loco_Lobo at Apr 15, '09 15:23 | |
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| Please understand my intent upon entering this discussion was not to be disrespectful or start a war. I did not wish to cause any conflict. I merely wished to defend those who are perhaps less able to in this manner. Things seems to be getting very heated up however. I do apologize for that, though I can not apologize for my ideas and ideals. | |
| Reply by: Los_Loco_Lobo at Apr 15, '09 15:34 | |
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Kittie is seen staggering past the group of high ranking officials with what looks like two black eyes and a knot the size of a grapefruit on her head. I was up all night slamming my head into my desk when I thought I'd get down a dictionary and grammar handbook. Unfortunately, the ladder was broken from over use as a "horsey" and I fell off, bringing the dictionary down on my head. Anyways, I was lured back past this conversation when I heard this...
Well, some of us were, have been or are. But that doesn't mean we are trying to laud our skills. The proper use of grammar is important in so many facets of life that learning how to use some of these words and punctuation properly will vastly improve your chances in many areas of life. Not just as an up and coming gangster.
WRONG! Wrong, wrong, wrong. Take some God damned time to realize that spelling and grammar are often overlooked and yet are often the FIRST thing your CL or RHM sees. This applies to these shores as well as others areas of your life. Learning how to master some of the COMMON mistakes and eliminate them can actually benefit you in ways you might not be able to imagine now.
I am going to have to say that I hope this was just the concussion speaking and not something I actually heard Godmother Marietta say. If she did say something that blase I can assure her that New Orleans most certainly DOES care about the education of our youngsters and even the older members of our crews who have fixable speech impediments. I don't know about anyone else from my city but I will speak up for the Big Easy and say that grammar and proper diction are extremely important and we work hard to make sure our youth can speak intelligently. All in all I know that the ultimate point of this speech wasn't that we become perfect but that we work on speech impediments we know we can fix and move forwards in the art of speaking and conversation. |
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| Reply by: KittieCapone at Apr 15, '09 15:40 | |
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| Los Loco Lobo, you were giving Thomas Rourke examples like There/their, etc which he said he did not mind about. He was pointing out things like rouge and rogue, lose and loose - which do sound different. | |
| Reply by: BestestFriend at Apr 15, '09 15:41 | |
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LLL, you're pretty far off in a few things... A Godfather doesn't control just a family. He controls a CITY and every single family in it. And seriously? You're wrong about "it's" and "its". You use the example "It's things". If you were right, that could be rephrased "It is things" which is inconsistent because you have plural and singular mixed up. On the debate in general, I can certainly see both sides but I also realize that this debate is way older than my bloodline because one doesn't really decide to go about shooting people for new offenses when they are of this caliber. This leads me to believe that it is a fight that has been going on for years. Unfortunately, I will have to say that it does go on a case by case basis. There are people that mispronounce words because they're trying to save the effort of uttering the whole word and sometimes it is because their command of the language is not the best. Forgive me if I am wrong in the following, I am aware that I am about to go out on a limb, but I do not remember a foreigner being made fun of for mispronouncing words. I always encounter these youngsters that try to adopt futuristic teenager's speech patterns the target of these attacks from high ranked blue blooded mobsters. |
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| Reply by: Adrian at Apr 15, '09 15:43 | |
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Can we please put this elitist bullshit to bed already? Its a complete waste of everyone's fucking time and, whilst I joked about it earlier, it's seriously starting to grip my shit that people, in this thing of ours (having only recently either come off the boat or are from less than perfect origins). Maybe we should also have a dress code? Maybe we should set up elocution lessons? Fuck it, lets bring slavery back into the equation. Stop this shit right now please. |
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| Reply by: ZebRourke at Apr 15, '09 15:49 | |
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