Aniki you may go for your blind loyalty. Blind family crap but I refuse to. I rather know they actually have the best interests of a whole group of people rather than just themselves. We've seen cities slaughtered because of a false sense of loyalty to other people that were not apart of their district or city. You will have to excuse my cynicism on just taking things on faith.

You may believe in things you can't see but others will not. I certainly will not. 

Just because I have a loyalty to my leader doesn't make me a bad member of society. It certainly puts me above those that have loyalties to just friends wherever those friends may reside. My actual family, you know the one that you are actually in? That one. That one comes ahead of anything else. Above all else.

This is a leader that I can speak openly with (or I wouldn't have bothered joining them). If you can have discussions so that you can understand how they think it is easier to be loyal to them then say thin air. Because ultimately that is what someone who never speaks to you is, thin air. Not there.

I am well aware of the extension a leader is to a Godfather. Which is why I originally stated that if the leader is loyal then it is not a big deal. You can't respect a person if you don't know them. You can't say you would die for them, if you don't know them. So the logic you are trying to present is lacking just a little bit.

If a Godfather wants to get to know their district, even better. That is a man to be respected and admired. It is one who likely has no cause for thinking their district will turn on them either. You would be amazed what a conversation will do.

"Because you are a part of that family, you don't give to receive, you just give. If you give enough and work hard enough, your efforts should be rewarded." - Aniki


Polo chuckled softly in his chair.

"I respect your feelings on the matter Aniki, don't get  me wrong, but I am one-hundred percent in agreement with Ryssa on this particular topic."

Polo looks around the room.

"In a perfect world, our Godfather's would walk the streets with their associates and all their family would love each other. In a perfect world we could trust every single person in our Family to pull their weight and everyone reap the benefits of their hardwork... However in this day and age that doesn't always happen. Without going into specifics, I can think of a particular individual who gave everything for his district, and his city and was gunned down in cold blood due to a rumor from someone not even apart of his family. He never reaped the rewards you speak of, even after all his hard work."

Polo crosses his arms. Sighing.

"All I'm saying is that blind loyalty, anti-loyalty, it doesn't really matter. You will be used and spit out when they are done with you. However I trust in my leader, my crew leader, that I will not be used and discarded in this matter. He promised me and my family that we are not tools to his rise. I believe it. That is something I've never heard from a Godfather before."

"I'm very pleased with the amount of feedback I've received on this topic. I'm sure many of us have enjoyed listening to the discussion, and maybe even learned from it; at least I have. What ever your opinion is, I'm pleased to hear it. Feel free to continue the discussion."

Fips looks around the gathered crowd.

"I've noticed that we have not yet heard the opinion of a Godfather. Would that be too much to ask? We've also only heard the opinion of a single leader."

Fips looks around trying to spot his crew leader. Disappointed, as his leader wasn't to be found, Fips starts yelling loudly:

"Weebl!? Are you around here!? Do you have an opinion on this!?"

Lynchy stands at the edge of the small crowd with his head down, hat tilted to cover his gaze and collar up. A small cloud of smoke fills the air around his face as he draws on a cigar. He listens in on the conversation and notes the faces involved - he's glad to see a number of Philly residents. Upon the godfather reference he decides to step forwards and share some thoughts.

Good afternoon. For what it is worth here is my perspective on the matter.

I believe, personally, that Philadelphia has a certain auora about it. It is not a city owned by its godfathers, rather it is one that we are looking after for the next generation of godfathers. It is with such a mentality that I look to run the district of South Philly as my predecessor Archy would have wanted and my unknown successor would wish to inherit it. That is slightly off topic, but it leads to my next point.

My sole desire is to see the district grow in strength and remain safe, I therefore rely closely on a few very close contacts - my captains TepidDelucci and Utopia-, my own upper structure and a few other individuals of standing in the district. It would be unwise and unsafe for me to share all of my thoughts and ambitions with our most lowly associates until one of those closest to me has chosen to welcome that member into the family and they are highlighted as a potential future figurehead for the district

I would like to get to know each and every resident better, but with limited hours in the day I must prioritise the business of the city first. Over time many of these fine residents will put themselves into positions where their loyalty to the district is noticed (through their street presence, earnings or gun) and at that point they can expect to be fully welcomed into my inner circle.

Ryssa raised an eyebrow as she listened to her Godfather speak. She had noticed he didn't seem to get around too much so it was enjoyable to see him here. However, there were things that she couldn't help but notice in his reply.

I enjoy the fact that you have come out here and spoken your mind Lynchy. Because as I said before it's hard to deal in the loyalty factor without having heard some thoughts somewhere.

Now just a few things I have picked up and I am truly curious about. You say that you deal with the lowest of associates if your closest associates vouch for them. The part that concerns me here is that the low rankers do a lot for the high rankers. Actually more often then not they work harder than those Made and above because they need to prove themselves. (For anyone wondering I hate slacking high rankers, so trust me, those that continue to work are awesome). Why do low rankers value so much less than those of high rank?

Perhaps I have listened and misheard but it seems to me that you put all your faith in high ranks. Have we not seen a high ranking rogue recently kill a Godfather? Maybe they were more trusted then an associate but at the same time high ranks can screw things up just as well as a low ranker could. Maybe even better depending on their choice of skill they chose to focus on.

But onto where the logic and loyalty stance is, do you expect associates to claim a loyalty to someone who feels they shouldn't be given the time of day unless vouched for? Does this somehow merit working as hard for you  as they might for a Godfather that thinks all their members from Thug to Don are valuable and important to speak to?

Just asking out of curiosity. You can tell me it's none of my business of course.

Ryssa smiles politely.

Lynchy smiles in the way you may expect from a grandfather and then begins his response.

Low rankers do do a lot, yes many of them work harder than their higher ranking counterparts. But the point is that they need to start somewhere and show something of themselves before I will put my life in their hands or divulge sensitive information to them. Ultimately they have the opportunity to prove themselves, but just because they make a bit of an effort for a couple of days doesn't mean they are yet trustworthy. Respect and trust are built up cumulatively and it takes time for people to be put in situations where I actually see what they're made of.

To your next point yes - we did see a high ranking member of our community take down a godfather. Sometimes people slip through the net and they cannot all be caught. All the more reason to spend time focusing on high rankers with big guns surely? As if I'm too busy talking with new recruits then I might be allowing the wrong kind of character to become someone dangerous to the very city I wish to protect.

Finally then, yes I do. Work hard and you will rise, earn well and then one day I will be sending you money for bodyguards. But prove you're worth it - first to your crew leader who deals with you day to day, then to me as I plan for our districts future.

Because ultimately that is what someone who never speaks to you is, thin air. Not there.

Ryssa, you're a Goomba, why would you expect a Godfather to come and spend time talking to you on a personal level? It makes no sense. When you chose your leader, you chose the district of South Philly, you chose to run under a crew that is ran by Godfather Lynchy. I assume you're not calling him thin air because he's never popped over to your house for a cup of coffee and exchanged pleasantries. Again it's unrealistic to think this would happen.

You seem to be under the illusion that we should all be seen as equals, this is not the case. Made Man, although cheapened somewhat by some families is a big deal. It's part of the elite. It's not just another rank, it's a step into the inner circles of the mafia, you are finally trusted with the secrets of the family and you are respected more by not just your own family but others also.

"Why do low rankers value so much less than those of high rank?"

Simply because they haven't earned the trust of the Godfather/Crew Leader yet, they are still just an associate and they aren't a part of the family. Saying some lower ranked work harder than the higher ranks doesn't matter, the higher rankers have done something to warrant earning their button, the low ranked haven't.

"Have we not seen a high ranking rogue recently kill a Godfather? Maybe they were more trusted then an associate but at the same time high ranks can screw things up just as well as a low ranker could. Maybe even better depending on their choice of skill they chose to focus on."

Of course higher ranks can make mistakes and turn out to be bad eggs on occasion, we can't completely eliminate the possibility of such a thing happening. Sadly we have to take a gamble at all times when promoting someone to Made Man, all leaders will tell you it can be a big gamble as it can come to bite them in the ass if their button men do something they shouldn't, but again they must have done something to warrant earning their button in the first place. Just because they might have the ability to screw up more than a lower ranked person, it just reinforces the fact that leaders need to be careful when bringing someone into the family and trusting them.

Ryssa smiled as she listened to Lynchy.

Aye I would never suggest that people should not work for it. Another very strong point, everyone needs to earn their places. However, many people do not. Some will coattail ride along their friends, others will have it handed to them and sometimes the hardest of your workers get passed up. That is life.

I just really wanted to point that both high and low in some respects can screw things up just as much as the other. Clearly you do think that some of the low rankers merit some time or you would not be out here speaking to me.

Smiling she shortly turns to Aniki. The smile dropping from her face as she stares at them. She had a hundred thoughts racing through her head on his speech. Where to start?, she thought to herself.

Well lovely to see you speaking again.

I am under no illusion of any such thing. While you want to point out how much better high ranks are, you seem to forget that is where you started. Just like anyone else. Made Man is very much cheapened in particular families. Which is why I probably have no interest in those families.

I would disagree that some higher ranks have done things to warrant their Made Man button but let's be honest. It doesn't matter. A leader will do as they wish and its something you put up with or leave in a casket.

I never understood the obsession with knocking low ranks though. Most people rely on them for pro's that end up saving their lives. Convenient.

"I don't want to say too much as it's veering of the subject, I agree that people obtain their buttons far too easy in this time now, times are changing and rank doesn't seem to be as important as it use to be. Associates seem to be as useful as button men and women these days and some even more so, I believe only some who are finally accepted into families have really earned their place and I bet more than most don't deserve it.

Me, I am a little more harder to be giving out such things, until I see someone who has become more a team player than themselves, I don't give out so easy. Bloodlines also have a huge part in who receive their buttons these days I feel whereas I don't like to see it that way, said people are not their father nor mother so I try not to use that as an advantage but in some cases... Having a good bloodline is a bit of a push in certain things and does reward those in a different way.

Whilst I am here I might as well comment on the subject, my loyalty firstly is with Lynchy, I was accepted into this district and given the chance of having my own crew to build for the district, now if Lynchy were to die, there is no individual where my loyalty would seek but my loyalty would be to Philadelphia as a whole until I had trust in someone who could take over from my current Godfather... If by some miracle that was me, then my loyalty would only stretch as far as the other remaining Godfathers in Philadelphia."

"Told you so." Weebl said to Bob.

Bob grinned and said "Go out there. Tell 'em what you think. I'll keep your seat, but will drink your beer."

When Weebl left the terrace where they were sitting he saw the waitress was kinda disappointed that Bob was the one to stay.
His wink was met with a shy smile, but after that Weebl started crossed the street towards where Fips stood.

"Hello friend. The loyalty thing, eh? An original take on the matter this time. Quite interesting to put some thought in."

Weebl looked around, but he didn't really see anyone as his mind drifted of into the past to review the situations that asked for a decision on where his loyalties were.

"In life your actions are based on what you value most. Call it loyalty, call it motivation. For some that's money, others survival. Surprisingly some are looking for power.  Surprisingly, because power in this life means a shitload of blood, sweat and tears. Some things I'm not a particular fan of myself. The most beautiful form of loyalty however is when it's driven by persons other then yourself. A loyalty that wins from self-preservation."

"My loyalty lies with the people who make up my identity. I'm not Weebl because I wobble. I'm not Weebl, because I can shoot a can at 50 yards out, blindfolded. I'm not Weebl because I'm fat... err have a bold looking suit. I'm Weebl, friend of Fips."

"My name is Weebl, friend of BlackBetty. Hey, name's Weebl, you probably saw me with LouisGato before. Hi, I'm Weebl, friend of MrPolo. I'm happy that I can name quite a few more here. Perhaps not so many names that make up history books. But they make up my memories.
With my friends I laughed and I cried. Together we fought. We prayed. We cherished. We buried. We build. We fell. We got up and started again. We celebrated. We lived. And with my friends I wish to die."

Weebl just smiles for a bit having memories of his friends pass by.

"But I know, you're looking for more concrete answers. Godfather of Leader? It would be the sum of my friends that decides that.
I will choose that action that serves most of my friends well and let us die or live in honour. As a leader that means I might have to choose for some of my friends, perhaps even against one of them, for the benefit of the others. And that's a hard thing to do, trust me."

"By the time my loyalty becomes important I expect my leader and Godfather to both know me quite well. And in a healthy organisation we'd be able to work together smoothly. That doesn't mean agreeing all the time, because people can disagree. But it means understanding each others position and having that which ties you together win of that which separates you."

"If it happens that member, leaders and Godfather can't get on the same page I expect each of those to follow their identity, because betraying yourself is the worst you can do. It's better to die as yourself, then live as a stranger. Therefor, decide who you want to be and follow your path."

The choice based on hierarchical status is silly for me really, perhaps so because of my own position. I don't owe a rank or a social status anything. That's the life I escaped by entering the life of crime. I owe persons something. A system is what makes us organized. Our values and opinions are what makes us human. Lose the human touch and watch the system crumble."

Mr. Polo sat back in his chair and crossed his arms, nodding to everything that Weebl said.

"And that is why I will follow you to the ends of the earth, my friend. Not because you're my crew leader, not because you provide me with protection, work, a place to call my home, but because you see me as a Friend, not as a Tool."

Mr. Polo stood up, grabbing whatever nearby glass of alcohol was in the vicinity, it just so happened to be Fips, but Fips wouldn't mind. 

"The best views are reserved for those willing to climb, and I'm one hell of a lucky man to have such a Wobbly person leading the charge."

Mr. Polo toasted Weebl, and looked to his left where Ryssa sat.

"Bingo."
 

Decides to say a quick couple of words

Weebl that can't be said any better and I agree, thus is why I have my select friends and people I respect.  My father talked highly of you as well, although most of PH was respected in my fathers journals.

And watchout MrPolo someone might think you're "brown nosing"

Chuckles and sees the beer that Bob is drinking in Weebl's car and frowns and goes to nearest pub being sick of wine.