I would count all the above and add in a few things like street/bar experience points those families that add good things to the streets and bars should get a little more. Those that have members who do nothing but click,click,click. Should get no bonus points towards promotions.

You could also factor in how well the family "works" together ie family mucs they do with each other but I guess that goes with overall exp. unless you could some how split that up a bit.

Crew Promo points ? Care to fill me in ? Im kinda lost. What do you mean by crew promo points ? or is there a link that I can read up on it ?

I think it should just be a blanket thing on all experience points - whether they're gained from crimes, votes or posting. On an individual basis - there is already point and monetary incentive for all three so I don't feel it's particularly necessary to promote that on a crewide level.

Personally, I think there should just be a virtual 'points bank' of sorts and every point earning activity that a member commits should be more points in the bank (without taking any actual points away from the user). The auto promos should not cost any points, and everything above made should have a standard cost depending on effiency of a crewmember.

Example1 : To promote a wise guy to made man costs 100 points. Wise Guy A has 200% efficiency and has therefore worked twice as hard as the average Wise Guy, his promotion will only cost 50 points.

Example 2: To promote a Boss to Consigliere costs 400 points. Boss B only has 50% efficiency and has therefore worked half as hard as the average boss, his promotion will cost 800 points.

Under a scenario like this, it would prevent Leaders from simply using points to promo their besties, leaving nothing left in the bank to promote hard working members who are perhaps not in the inner clique. However, on that basis I'd say CL, RH and LH promos should not be points related and should simply be, as currently, a clicky button sort of affair.

A scenario like this would help promote diversity among families in addition - as there would be a new tactical option. I have 400 points in the bank, 4 wise guys are up for their made promos - but 2 mades are due to be promoted to capos. Who do I spend the points on? Such a system would promote a sense of realism where the books are only 'opened' when there is actual space, which would discourage the presently massive top heavy structure of families - whether this is a good or bad thing is up for debate!

You just want me to never get Consig Noah......

That can be easily arranged without a coded overhaul.

Cow worries about families with lots of new players in...

The proposed idea is unique and I think it would allow for an interesting dynamic of which we are not used to.  With that said however, I believe there is still a fundamental flaw in the rank system and "pecking order."  I believe the problem is that ranks are not family-based.  The initial purpose of ranks like "Capo" and "Boss (Underboss)"  were originally designed as family positions of leadership and structure.  While in terms of roleplay, we can certainly establish our very own family structures how we like, what sense does it make for a thug to be an underboss to a Don?  If our primary objective is accuracy and attention to detail, then I believe we must afford ourselves the time to think of a greater solution to an underlying problem - not just fix a symptom of it. 

So Squishy to put it plainly, how would you feel about a leveling and ranking system going hand in hand; ones that are established by points?  Allow me to elaborate:

Imagine there are up to 50 levels achievable in the game.  Getting to level 20 might only take 20 days minimum leveling time.  However, getting to level 30 might require another 20 days minimum time instead of only 10.  As the levels go up, so does the minimum amount of time required to achieve that.  With this in mind, you can also imagine the implementation of a true ranking system that would incorporate the current Mafia ranks.  For instance, we all start out in families as "enforcers" and then by level 5 we become "associates."  At level 10 we then automatically become "gangsters" and from there we have the potential for achieving the rank of goomba and earner by levels 15 and 20 respectively.  (These levels can be adjusted obviously).  However, the titles/ranks of "goomba" and "earner" would be made as a promotion button rather than an automatic thing by the leader. 

I believe that the "Made Man" promotion should require a level of around 20-25 (depending on what the final system becomes).  However, even if a gangster achieves the level of 25, does not mean they would automatically become a Made Man or vice versa, could not continue leveling until they are so.  I believe that with each level, your "abilities" should grow and that you attain each level by criming and doing all the normal stuff we have now. 

However, lets say that you need to be a level 40 to be a Don, but you can also be a level 45 gangster.  The longer someone is around and the more points they have achieved, the better their abilities should be.  In this for-instance, A level 40 Don could potentially be gunned down by a level 45 gangster who has attained a far more powerful level of ability.  It makes no sense historically for two Don's to be button mashing each other in a war when it was far more typical to have your best assassin/gangster go out and do the hit.  I believe the incorporation of a leveling system with the ranking system could provide exactly what we have all been waiting for.

But Squishy, your "points" system for promotions I believe would work perfect with this new level and rank system I have thought up.  Everyone gets pissed off in the game when their leader fails to promote them past Wise Guy - so they suicide?  What the hell is the point of playing if your only way up the chain is by rank?  Rank is both title and responsibility and it should not be the equivelant of ability all-around.  The leveling system would allow people stuck at gangster to achieve high level and reputation as a gangster-assassin (for example) or a gold-pocketed Earner without worry about promotion. 

I have more details and ideas for this system, but I would like to talk more about it in chat at a later time.  I believe a serious discussion away from the slow pace of the forums is in order.

*Additional Note*

I just wanted to say that I have thought up a lot of potential barriers to implementation of my idea - including coding issues and gameplay.  I honestly could not come up with anything of note that would hinder such a system from being established one day. 

I also wanted to note that if people are given the chance to "level" their characters without the requirement of a leader to "hit a button," I wondered if it would not be better to make both the levels and ranks of mobsters something that requires stealth - and a lot of it.  Imagine a leader not even knowing the full potential of a level 45 gangster he did not know had attained that high of a level - and simply overlooking the person for a hit during a war only to have it come back and end him permanently. 

You want dynamic?  I think this would be it

I won't lie. I'm kind of sick of all these new features that hinder younger accounts and members. I understand that Deimne, Lucretia, Marietta, Aurora, and so many have worked extremely hard but this would only make it even harder for people to rank up to pose a threat.

To train a gun has gotten more complicated yet easy that it's kind of sickening. You can't just follow ID's you have to have the vision so automatically older accounts have the benefit so therefor they can have more kills, yes we can have 15 a month but in case anyone didn't know 15 is hardly crap unless you live for a year then you'll finally be able to drop a consigliere if you're at least a Boss that is and on Wack answers.

I would be in favor of this if a reset followed. But I know that won't happen so I give this two thumbs down and if I could give it more I would but I can't because well I only have two thumbs.

No mention for Iota?

Sad face.

Kates breasts also feel left out, tbh.

Warsteiner brings up a good point. Perhaps if rank wasn't so prominent in wack skill, or users could rank freely without their leader's approval, it would be more even for the lower-rankers.

Warsteiner
brings up a good point. Perhaps if rank wasn't so prominent in wack
skill, or users could rank freely without their leader's approval, it
would be more even for the lower-rankers.

Reply by: Mux at Nov 22, '09 21:30

I agree with both Mux and Warsteiner emphatically.  Part of the purpose for the level/rank system I thought up was to remove the fact that as like it is now, Rank = Ability.  There is absolutely no reason why a gangster who has done as many crimes and has trained their gun as much as a Don, should not be able to take one down at a better percentage than the current system. 

People deserve to have their hard work and good faith rewarded.  I also agree fervently that the current wack system is a joke.  No offense to Izzy, because it was a practical way of getting rid of inactives while also allowing people to train their gun without warring... but isn't that the purpose of the game?  Why should super guns be allowed in war?  If people are so desperate to train their guns, that they need to fulfill a blood-lust - perhaps the problem isn't the game?  

We have to learn as a society (in general) that not every problem has a practical policy solution.  It is in my opinion that the inactive system be thrown out entirely.  If people so wish to train their guns, there should be other avenues for doing so that do not include killing.  A leveling system that rewards people for time alive and work done over the days and weeks and months of their characters life is all that is required.  To be honest, the wack system incorporated with the IA timing in itself, is still a favorable condition for anyone closer to the server and/or a better system to click the button fast. 

But the issue here is a points system for leveling.  Again Squishy, I hope you take my idea into serious consideration for the future

I won't lie. I'm kind of sick of all these new features that hinder younger accounts and members. I understand that Deimne, Lucretia, Marietta, Aurora, and so many have worked extremely hard but this would only make it even harder for people to rank up to pose a threat.

...

To train a gun has gotten more complicated yet easy that it's kind of sickening. You can't just follow ID's you have to have the vision so automatically older accounts have the benefit so therefor they can have more kills, yes we can have 15 a month but in case anyone didn't know 15 is hardly crap unless you live for a year then you'll finally be able to drop a consigliere if you're at least a Boss that is and on Wack answers.

Age of an account has nothing to do with vision. I have the oldest playing account and would wager to bet that my "sight" is crappier than yours at the moment.

This does not sound like an idea that is made to "benefit the older playing accounts", rather, one that will benefit the hardest working player accounts- whether they be in a Godfather crew, or a new crew that is run by a Made Man. You are insulting the userbase to insinuate that the Godfathers are currently the only hardest working players around.

Sorry for the tangent, just wanted that to be said.

I agree with Mister Moneybags above, where he stated perhaps good roleplaying should be added, so it was not just the clicky families that are rewarded with more experience after their copious amounts of clicking.

Ahem, *Pennybags. Lemme alone, I've been staring at the TV screen all day. :(

Ezio has raised a few excellent points, however, some appear (at first glance at least) to be at odds with each other.

Part of the purpose for the level/rank system I thought up was to remove the fact that as like it is now, Rank = Ability.

I'm not sure how this is any different from the proposed "level = ability" scenario. All it will achieve, imho, is that a member no longer needs to earn his CL's trust to progress, but simply bash away on buttons even more so than in the current system. At least as it is, some leaders put a heavy requirement on gaining the rank of made man. This means that the game requires interaction, trust, confidence building, team building and other soft skills outside of simple button clicking. Under the 'levelling' system proposed, this goes the other direction and removes some of the interaction required at present.

People deserve to have their hard work and good faith rewarded.

Again, the 'levelling' system would reward 'clicking' in my opinion. In the current setup, the trust and faith of the CL must be earned along with the points. If people aren't willing/able to earn that faith... well, I'm not sure I'd ever feel sorry for them. It's not like any of the leaders (at least at the moment) restrict made man or above ranks to only friends. If you put in the work for the family (not just clicking, but interacting and posting) you get what you deserve.

A leveling system that rewards people for time alive and work done over the days and weeks and months of their characters life is all that is required.

I'm not sure how much this would change things to be perfectly honest. If I were to try and name the top 10 guns in the game at the minute, I'm sure I'd get at least 6 or 7 right (possibly more).

If the 'ia wacking' were replaced with a 'work done' system... quite a few of those in the top 10 would remain just where they are/were, although there would no doubt be some changes.

If it was changed, it just means that people gain the ability to train super guns (through hard work clicking away) with no risk of death/wb. So the risk/rewards of the current system go out the window in place of a simple 'click race' (I've had this in other games, one of the reasons I don't play them and do play MR). Having it as simple as 'he who clicks the most wins' is a terrible system from all of my previous experiences for it.

To be honest, the wack system incorporated with the IA timing in itself, is still a favorable condition for anyone closer to the server and/or a better system to click the button fast.

The old 'closer to the server' has long been an argument put forward by the masses. Look at the facts and it tends to disagree. Some of the greatest hitters the game have ever seen have been on terrible connections, across the ocean from the server and still got their kills in. On the current system or in the past. Under the current Ajaz method, the playing field is very much level with little to no reward for a faster connection or being closer to the server.

Sure, different tricks/techniques/systems may have helped, but how is that a bad thing? It at least adds a 'knowledge' to the art which means those willing to work at it and figure out the tricks shine through.

Having said all of that, I hate to be one to bash new ideas when I don't have a better alternative. I suppose I'm suggesting that the current method has merits ahead of some of those mentioned, but a mixture of both might be a good way forward.

I'm keen to see more thoughts from Ezio on this, but perhaps carring the discussion any further in this thread is the wrong place to do it.

***********************************************************

On the original point of the thread, it's a difficult one to balance. The idea of rewarding the hardest working crews is a great one, however, if it means that our 'part time' players (who can only get on for a few hours per week) suffer as a result... not a positive for them and therefore not for the community as a whole as some of the userbase might/will drop away. I know of many great players who add to the game hugely but who only manage a few hours a week most weeks.

When looking at what to reward, again, very tough one to balance. If it's 'overall work', then that's pretty much already taken into account in the individual members earning the ranking points. Trying to add something a bit different, rewarding the 'role play' side of the game, might be an interesting way to go. The members still need to do the 'click' side of things to earn the points, but now the family need to up the RP side in order to gain the 'promo points'.

It's a hard one to comment on accuratly as it's hard to see how much, if any, this will/would change gameplay or the game dynamics. It's something I'm keen to see evolve, but not sure how to help it do so.

Jesus, Deimne.

The thread is called "Food for Thought". Its not an all you can eat buffet. My poor eyes...

I just gained 50lbs on Deimne food :*(

Also I think that it should count only for Made Man proms.
Or MadeMan and above...
So till Wise Guy the individual effort is rewarded exclusively, since in my opinion they are ranks of individual capacity.
Then, being the number of Made Mans something that build up the family image, it can be done with crew points, that, in my opinion, should be rewarded by RPing like street activity and businnes district presence.