I do not like this idea. 

I used to be a .org player in like 2003 and I'd been itching to get back into it recently.  I found this site last week, so my perspective is largely ignorant of the current system.  Despite this, I have noticed some trends.

There are some EXCELLENT improvements over the old game--particularly concerning admin participation, site enhancements, etc.

That being said, there is a major decrease in meaningful player interaction.  It seems that everything has become increasingly reliant on safe, inhuman, self-serve player development - i.e., MIA creation, training at gun ranges, obscene #s of bodyguards, the formalization of inactive killing, etc, etc...

Is it just me, or do people not really DIE anymore?  I was looking at the demographic numbers.  There are more Dons than gangsters.  There are characters who have 50+ bodyguards and been alive for a YEAR AND A HALF.  The unnaturally long life spans appear to have hyperinflated the economy.

Remember when mrevilman brought the cities to their knees?  He trained his character in a way that doesn't exist anymore.  Anyone can keep their mouth shut and train ranges and kill MIAs until they max out their gun (can you imagine MAXING out your gun back in the old .org???).  Take a look at the site ratio for Success to Failure at wacking.  Does anyone ever miss?  The numbers are so outrageous because everyone is killing IAs and MIAs preparing for the war that may never come.  This isn't mafia so much as IA slaughter.  So we have a world where Dons outnumber Gangsters and going rogue means dealing with far too many maxed out guns and obscenely protected bosses.

Has security and ease of play replaced the thrill of struggling to survive in this thing of ours?

The creation of the NPC crews -- though an interesting enhancement -- will continue the unintended effect of further watering down character development.  Why fight the other crews when we can safely boost our stats fighting a vegetable army that won't fire back?  Why shoot at someone with 50+ bodyguards?  Why challenge the status quo?  Why reach for the pinnacle of wealth and power when the site coding is encouraging steady compliance?  

WOW! great im looking foward to training my gun with there lives lol

I agree with the majority of what you say ChrisJohnson, particuarly the bit about people not seeming to die anymore. Whilst i understand the need to maintain a stable game for maximum user retention etc, things do seem to be much less interesting with no wars. Previously i would spend multiple hours on here training my gun and ranking but now it seems fairly pointless. Seeing as it is fairly simple for people now to hit don, get auth and amass a good number of kills where is the incentive?

However when you say "can you imagine MAXING out your gun back in the old .org", it doesnt neccesarily mean a gun has reached its peak but simply you have reached the level that which training at the range will no longer be beneficial.

ChrisJohnson. You are my hero.

I spawned an IA but was told I couldn't shoot him!  Wish I'd read this properly...

Chris Johnson - 

I agree completely however I ask you to do this one test for me.

Go and try out .org now...

It is the cesspit of humanity... Although you are right with the struggle for life bit in the old .org days (I was around then too - Good times!) It has gone too far and ceases to allow people to interact. 

they just shoot anything new - So unless you know people in there you don't get anywhere - Again resulting in more Don's, Capo's, etc

It used to be an achievement to get to WG or MM and they would be the CL's hence when rouges came out of the wood work - Earners with a tasty shot could take down a crew (after a 4hour pro wack :P)

However this site does have it's advantages - and to be fair I do prefer it. More to do - More to play with and I think the NPC crews fill a void and allow people to shoot - should that be there aim...

However another St Valentines would shake things up :) 

Which may be what is needed - Start another rat race to get to the top!

ChrisJohnson, some of the most intelligent (and right) points that I've read on here for months.  The excitement, chaos, true skill-building, 'churn' of leaders leading to different experiences and striving for survival just doesn't happen any longer.  Unfortunately, this place is all the poorer for it.  And I say this as a Don, who is a LH for a Godfather.

IMHO, BGs were the start of the slippery slope.  It was much fairer when defence was based on questions (you had the choice - wack or defence) and surviving shots.  In the old days, the chances of getting to a high rank without surviving, at least, one shot were non-existent.  I'd wager now that most high ranks haven't had a single shot at them.  Instead, you get thugs turning up Very or Obscenely Well Protected.

It is what it is though.

Actually John Merrick - I agree.

That could actually be the root of this...

It takes the surprise element out of it - I have to dodge or kill or your BG's before I can think about hitting you... by which point you know I am here and well me and my couple of BG's are down.

I do agree - bring back 4hours protection :P

4hours protection was never taken away to begin with :/

How much fun was that - having to arrange protection Wack!'s so that you could carry on safe in a war - that was the buzz - because it could all go wrong! :)

Chris

yes - people live longer and go further - yes there are a lot of high rankers.

BUT

There is still wholesale slaughter here at times, when wars happen they drag in cities and dozens die, including the top ranks and the most protected.  This thing of ours is based on money and community - not killing.  Most deaths seem to occur from a lack of respect - this is based on reality.

I'd wager now that most high ranks haven't had a single shot at them.

I'll personally dispell this blatently wrong statement.

Speaking personally...

- I was shot at by two Godfathers as a consig (I only had 32 bg's at the time iirc, luckily neither had spent much time training their gun so I survived) as well as a number of Boss and Consig's

- A handful of Don's and Consig's as a Don (luckily at this stage I was a CL and having a very hard working family had managed to get above OWP and survive)

- Two different GF's (one with 430 kills or there abouts) as a Godfather

Taking my city... all CL's who have stood under me during a time of war have survived shots, many from higher rankers. Sure, they survived these shots due to their bodyguards, but that's how the system works. Had any of the attacks been handled differently (with a significant attack made on bodyguards), some/most would be dead.

In the last 'large war' (which lasted for 3 days), I took a total of 2 bodyguard shots. Both misses. I'm far from unkillable, nor is any other Godfather in the game, but if an attack is made without lowering the protection we do have in place, it will fail. Sure, big shots can land... but it's far more the exception rather than the rule.

The excitement, chaos, true skill-building, 'churn' of leaders leading to different experiences and striving for survival just doesn't happen any longer.

Personally, I couldn't disagree more. I believe the current system has the potential to be far more exciting than the old system. It won't have the same chaos or randomness, but now to have a successful attack requires far more skill. In the old days, a single rogue with a decent gun could wipe out a huge number of targets. To me, this was simply luck and shits and giggles. There was no reward for strategy, team work, good planning, dedicated work, etc etc. Now, if someone wants to take down a godfather (any of them, not speaking specifically about myself here), it requires a large team, working together, with a well planned out attack. Sure, the skills have changed a little... but not all change is bad.

Deimne: Nice to see an exception to the rule (so to speak) - maybe I was a little hasty with my comments and stuck a little too much in the past.

There is no doubt in  my mind that this is still a damn good game and as I have said a million times - History is made today.

I don't know anymore!

So perhaps we should all stop the complaining/reminiscing and actually make today's work tomorrows news?

~Mezz  

Deimne,  I don't doubt that a fair number of us who have survived wars have survived shots but, as things stand, there are 150+ players at Capo onwards.  I'd still think that >50% of those haven't been shot at.  I may, of course, be wrong but I'd be shocked if that wasn't the case - of course, the chances of Godfathers/CLs/RH/LH/HSL having survived shots are higher as they're usually the main targets.

I wasn't referring to rogues when I spoke about the past.  In the grand scheme of things, rogues are (and were) an irrelevance.  When the likes of Ganelon and his hit squad were winning wars, the attributes you mention (which are all spot on, btw) were being applied as much as today.  From that point of view, I do not think that the strategy needed is that different.

Anyway, in my opinion, some things are better, some things are worse.  That's life.  I don't want it to sound like I'm some sort of sentimental old fool who harks for things through rose-tinted spectacles.

I think that the game at the moment is more realistic, except for the 'top heavy' nature of the ranks.  However, a culture has now appeared where madeMen and above are only considered to be real members of this thing of ours.  What hasn't happened is that the rules hae loosened for killing WG and below - who are basically only associates.  I don't see this as a bad thing.  However, and I'm playing Devil's advocate here, say an Earner got in an argument with a Capo from another family.  The Capo shoots and kills him.  The Capo is a made member of a family, the Earner is an associate of another family.  What would happen?  A sit-down, money would change hand, maybe a deomotion and the Capo (or nwo MadeMan) would have his card marked and given a warning.

I am a Capo and I have had a body guard killed before and shots taken at me. But I do believe there are too many high rankers. However this will mean more targets during a war.

This update pretty much sums up why I am unable to put any effort into this game any more. I am not resistant to change; I craved it back in the dark days of .org, and even early mafiareturns.com. Dumbing down the game by giving away free kills to people who don't have the ability to compete for normal IAs is ridiculous.

I think that the MIA is killing the fun of the game before to get a kill there would be people arguing in the streets and alot more people trying to save there life now you can get a strong gun without actually killing any one its ano risk way to get a strong account maybe it should be taken away maybe people would enjoy the fact of getting kills now there is just nothing

Agreed with above.  Admin let's fix this.  Stop dumbing down our Mafia!  Can we get back to dealing with humans, demanding respect, and risking our lives?  Why so many bodyguards?  Why so much IA killing?