So after listening to the reasoning for the recent attack from the Silk folks, I wondered to myself how many people in this thing of ours are actually bothered about the subjects that they brought up. And if the answer to this is the majority, then why are there so few that are standing up against it?

Now the subject I'm referring to is the one that affects myself directly, obviously. It was made clear by the recent rogues that they targeted certain people based on their bloodline. They did this whilst saying that part of their actions was to stand up against those being bloodlined, so I guess the irony of their attacks was lost on them. Anyway, I digress.

Their point was that people like myself who have had relatives in positions of power before, most noteably Leaders, shouldn't get the opportunity again and again. What I have to ask to that is why? I don't recall any of my bloodline being a failed leader. Nor any of them being a Tyrant? In fact, speaking to most people they all seem to genuinely think that my ancestry has a good name for its leadership ability.

So why then is it an issue that I Tyrion get a shot at following in their footsteps? If you wish to stand up against people being blamed for their past, then why is it Ok to then attack others because of their past?! It makes no sense to me.

But perhaps that's part of the problem, the fact that I've been involved in the "issue" as such, means that I'm blind to it being a problem? so I thought I would come out here and ask the good people of the community to share their thoughts. The not so good people can feel free to share theirs also.

There were other names mentioned alongside mine of course, and like mine I associate those names with being nothing more than good leaders in the past, so I fail to see why their bloodline should be shunned from achieving such positions in the future should they merit it. (and only the person that appointments them to this position can truly say whether or not they indeed merit it, so that argument is pointless)

Feel free to share folks. Even if its to say that you think I'm a useless bastard that should never hold a position.

The problem people are having is when someone gets "auth" for their bloodline at a young age when people who have been loyal for a damn long time get overlooked. It all depends on the organization i guess. There are just no italian/sicilians around anymore i guess.

Tick I am Italian Sicilian.

About this Topic, personally I think the dead is dead, leave it. Unless you find someone who keeps coming back as a threat or what not I think bloodlining is a little of BS (sorry for language but its all i could come up with)

In the case of my CL, yes he has been CL many times but this is not the reason why he was authed on this character. He was authed because he worked just as hard as the other times he was authed and he deserved it again. wether  someone is Boss or Don, it doesnt matter, hense why we call some CL (Underboss).

TonyAlacchi

To take a guess at this, I'd have to say jealousy.

Tony here mentioned that Mister Tyrion was authed because of his continuous hard work. I believe every mention in that statement. I believe him to be a great hard worker from what I've seen and heard. I think the group's problem is that while they think they work just as hard, they are not treated the same as other bloodlines. Could it be because of previous rogue behavior? Could it be because of paranoia these "hard working" individuals do not get the same treatment as others? I do not know. I'm not the upper management in the world's upper management. What I can see though is jealousy from these attackers.

I really don't see an issue.  Wait, that's not completely true.  As I stand here, I'm still thinking about how to address this issue, as I think it's interesting.  

Let me say it this way - I don't think anybody gets authed solely because of who their father or their mother was in a previous life.  Certainly there may be occasions when your family line could be a contributing factor, but I've never seen anybody authed who doesn't work hard.  I haven't been around for ever so has it happened?  Sure, I'm sure it's happened.  But those who are authed, regardless of familiy line, work hard.  As hard as anybody else who thinks they deserve it more.  

So, there are people authed who have leaders in their history.  And those who are authed who don't have leaders in their history.   I think there's a mix out there right now.  And I don't know which one is better.  All I know is both versions work hard.  And both versions get a chance in this world.   

And I know - I don't have a problem with a leader who has leaders in his family line.  Why would that be a problem?  

As for giving these Silk worms a platform?  Never a fan.  

I don't believe that it is jealousy really. I think it comes from frustration of working hard and being held down in one regard or another. Whether it is from being killed because of who you are, what kind of gun training you can do, or just not getting the chance to rise up into positions for the same reasons. I am a person who sees bloodlining from more than just one meaning, maybe others do as well. Whose to say really?

As Cecilya pointed out that one of the most frustrating scenarios is watching someone's kin come into leadership after their ancestor just came off a run. It would seem like the leaders of the time are suggesting that no one else is capable. That people they say they trust clearly they don't trust enough to do the job or teach the job to.

I think people will believe that they are doing things for the right reasons. And for them it may be the right reasons. No one can argue how someone feels about certain things, nor can those people argue how the things they say will be viewed.

Do I think because bloodlines keep getting repeat chances when others get none that it makes them a bad leader? Not necessarily. Will I argue that they earn it all the time? Nope. As I said elsewhere, earning things are relative to the person whose in the position to auth or promote, others won't always agree with it.

I agree with most that has been said here including WillHayes.

Let me try and explain, as best I can, how this works for us Tyrion and then you can hopefully see where we are coming from and what we are about.

This thread was written by me: 

http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/831205#124810022

Not posted by me because I was at the time in an important mission to stay low-key for The Silk Glove.

The fact of the matter is this, we have attacked nobody because of "who they are or were" the attacks have simply been at random. The reason the attacks have been at random and the reason there has been attacks is because people need to understand that there lives at this current time are meaningless. 

Now Tyrion, if you started training your gun, lets say you reach 700 kills. What happens to you? You're dead. Maybe there is a rule were certain individuals are trusted but anyone that's not trusted who wishes to build a gun is stopped in their tracks. Lets take BigAl for example, Wiggle killed BigAl for having sent up his SR with a 600ish kill gun, he died for that gun. Not for mis-using it, just for having it.

This is not blood-lining but it is another form of control that we at The Silk Glove deem unacceptable.

Don't get me wrong now, BigAl was as much a target for us as anybody else, just he was killed by the wrong side. The reason we kill these people is for them and others to wake up and realize what is happening around them. The game isn't even stale, it's just rotten. A Stalemate I can deal with, at least everyone in game is allowed to carry on what there doing and build as they like. This right here is just pure ignorance for ones hard work.

Tyrion if you truly worked hard for that account, unless you have signed a secret deal with all the other leaders, your as good as dead. They only way this is going to work out is if people revolt and start to take matters into their own hands. 

Nobody that could actually make a claim to do a takeover can now, they are snuffing it out around every corner. If you go rogue or do something out of the ordinary, they kill you over and over each time you tell anyone who you are, they don't even use excuses anymore.

The sooner that people see from The Silk Gloves point of view the better. Join now, give me a mail to show me you are on our side. If not your a target.

Willhayes, you're just a grumpy ass who can't see it from anybody else perspective. If you can't see where we are coming from then you are blind, my friend.

Iv never seen anybody get Cl from hardwork...only reason you get auth nowadays is to act as a meat/hate shield for the current Gf in power and once you die? hey your son/daughter is givin auth again because mommy/daddy took it like bitch with no problems before. 

one way to keep your family lineage on top eh? I would jump on board too sounds like a great deal, pity your own family is not allowed to build a gun... or really get the chance to make your own city once that happens you get squashed by the people who authorized you 

you guys sold out your bloodline from the get go.

Also to Will hayes  "I don't think anybody gets authed solely because of who their father or their mother was in a previous life." 

You are taking the piss right? does anyone give merit to what bollocks this man speaks?

Do bloodlines matter?

Easy answer. Absofuckinglutely. 

Sorry to say it, but they absolutely do. My lines have been around these parts for ages. Reading through the diaries of my kin, my own blood has seen a time or two up in the bright bold lights, but I prefer to stay out of center stage, standing in the wings. What's the saying? Always a bridesmaid, never a bride? And there's a reason why I make a great bridesmaid; I look fucking fantastic in the dress and because it runs in my blood. 

The point is, bloodlines are going to affect you in this life just because the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If your granddad was a fuckwit who couldn't follow rules and decided to rogue, then your dad was a fuckwit who couldn't follow rules and decided to pro a rogue and join a UG, then chances are you and your progeny are going to be treated with an iron fist than a pair of kid gloves. On the other side of that token, if your granddad was a great man who rose to power and ruled over his dominion and inspired loyal followers (and of course disgruntled opposition), then the next generation is going to be treated with a little more leniency and sometimes opportunities will present because that bloodline seems to have what it takes.

The perspective that seems to be lost sometimes is that at SOME point, that bloodline also was an unknown and was put up to prove they had what it took. Perhaps with the help of a friend's vouchsafing or from creating their own connections. It's politics, pure and simple.

Is it right? No, but it is a safe way to practice. It also makes a lot of people angry and disappointed. And then the cycle begins where those angry and disappointed people continue to mouth off and rogue and plot and get put down and continue being angry and disappointed. It also makes it nearly impossible for the next generation of the disillusioned to really rise up. Is that the fault of the current leadership, or is it a problem on both sides? 

Perceptions are reality. We like to THINK bloodlines don't matter. But they do.

When I invite people to Black Rock, most get the same speech. We are a "clean-slater" crew. I don't care what your mom or dad did. Do right by me and you'll do right in these walls. Everyone gets a fresh start.

Some people confess who their parents were and ask me to keep it secret. Some take that info their graves. Others don't care and present their entire family lineage at the coat check. We've been burned by the policy before in bad ways, and I know that one of WillHayes' ancestors and one of my own died protecting someone from bloodlining because their son had been a model member of his family. 

There are still people here who promote on merit, not on pedigree. On hard work, not on name. Do bloodlines matter? Absofuckinglutely.

But the fault lies on both sides a lot of the time. And if we're talking about looking at it from more than one perspective, I think everyone here could take a nice big dose of that advice.

Via_Parile I'll send my friend BOD over to you, he needs a clean slate. When they come knocking on your door to kill him, I hope you stick to that advice of yours as he just wants to play the game he's done with the rogue fun times.

This topic is old as shit and yet the same shit, different day happens. It was gansterrus (forget exact spelling)  who had the same mind set as Silk. Countless times we see the same leaders dying and returning to be a hand then authed. Or authed as soon as they can be.  How many times do we hear hands have to be trusted and that is the reasoning for their RH selection.   (not so much LH)  Yet the same clowns who promote family members to made men who must be trusted  to reach that point. See the irony? The best part is how many Cl's and Rh's are as hard working as the rest of their trusted made men?  I miss nothing. Cl's and hands turn the lights on once an hour for a few seconds, then they vanish.

It sucks BigAl died but I told him he would die in that fashion. But I am certain he knew too. It was he too who spoke up in the past over the same old bullshit.

I am retiring. I was already dealing with my tolerance level maxing out by looking at the same few who think they run this game. The tip of the ice berg was the recent email I got.

It is sad because while you ass hats run around here in your little close nit circle, disregarding all else, you are directly disrespecting the backbone of your families. And in my opinion indirectly disrespecting the founder and foundation of the game. But by all means carry on and I will not be back to say I told you so but I am sure others will.

http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/788555#12321392

PS WillHayes is a SpikeS fan so of course he is going to talk ying yang

Oh hi Isabella, i didn't see you there.  I thought you would have stuck that gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger by now.  But guess not.  Meh, a man can dream, can't he?  Talk about the same shit different day? Wow.  That's all you are.  The same shit different day.  I don't think you can exist without bringing up the same shit over and over again.  

PS I'm a SpikeS fan?  I'm sure you're spreading some breaking news by telling the world that a Downtown Detroit leader is loyal to SpikeS.  Shocking!  

I do, however, wish you would stay.  I do so love hearing about how much better you are than everybody.  And you use phrases like ying yang.  

Do bloodlines matter? Yes.

Have people been authed when there were other more hard working mobsters? Yes. 

Does everyone who is authed work hard? No. 

Anyone that thinks that some people are or indeed aren't authed because of who their parents were, is clearly a little wet behind the ears. 

I think this conversation has existed for so long that the fundamental argument has shifted. It used to be "Merit vs. Bloodline". But we're past that. If you're really wanting to know if bloodlines matter, just look at the crews list. Cities built with almost exactly the same bloodlines months prior? Leaders with HQs generation after generation. But I don't think it's undeserved at all. I won't say people aren't working hard. The merit is there.

We're on a road where, eventually, all we'll be left with is bloodlines. Presently, there are still a select few (and very few they are) that offer positions of authority and leadership on merit and hard work. But even they have friends they look to, generation after generation, to work with and for. It creates a subtle but asphyxiating pressure on anyone who wouldn't belong to such a clique. And when these people are passed over, killed, or simply retire out of sheer disappointment, no one cares. Or worse yet, they form another clique with others just as shut out, and while they may stick around they only exacerbate the underlying problem.

So we can keep this "does bloodline matter" circlejerk going as long as you'd like, but the truth is we're at a point where no one wants to work hard for someone they don't know or haven't worked for in the past. And that mentality, the "friends first and above all" attitude, is what will surely drive away any decent, loyal, and honorably mafiosi. Drive them away from behaving loyally, drive them away from your city, or even drive them away from Our Thing entirely. 

Aristides, truer words never spoken.

Recently while walking the streets of NY Kevin came across a sign that pretty much sums up a lot of this conversation.

Genesis

selectivly recruiting If i don't know you fuck off

Esau had heard how there was a slight mentioning of his crew in the streets, wanting to be nosey he goes to check it out and heard a false statement spoken.

"Kevin_McTaggart, I would very much like to know where you came across this sign as I have yet to see this anywhere around Bella Vista. Clearly you have a little hate towards me for whatever reasons you may have, did something not go your way or your fathers way?

As for your ' If I don't know you fuck off ' statement, I find that rather rude and completely incorrect. Proof of this is with my current LHM Raymond, I am unaware of their bloodline and yet their hard work has earned them a hand spot under me... I don't recall telling him to fuck off as you would say.

Please come back with a more factual statement."

Kevin steps back to the front of the crowd after hearing his name mentioned.

I have no hate for you whatsoever.  As a matter of fact, you are one of the few in that area of the country that I still have some respect for.  So if I offended you, I deeply apologize. 

However, there is no mistaking what I saw.  I believe it was here.....https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1260606

ooc...

(sorry, could figure out how to get that in character)