Ah, so its not something in the streets of Bella Vista you've saw, but attached to a person.

Well that's something that I'd never seen before so I can also see why Esau was unaware of what you referred to. I will admit I was somewhat pissed off by your statement when I believed it to be inaccurate, so even though I didn't express it to you or anyone, I still feel I owe you an apology as you were correct with your statement.

However I do wonder why you brought that statement forward to this discussion? Recruitment wasn't the subject at hand, though I guess as its bloodline related you could say the two were connected. Just think that perhaps a better approach may have been needed if you feel that the message fro Porkchop is inappropriate in any way.

No apology needed to me, Tyrion.  You are correct....it is attached to a person and not a city or district. 

It was not my intention to disrespect anyone, and I wasn't even thinking about it being about auths, recruiting, or anything else like that.  I just thought that it was relevant in terms of new people coming to these shores.  It kind of says, new people stay away.  We only like people we know. 

Again, my apologies if I stepped on any toes.  It was no my intention.  I was just pointing out something that I had seen that seemed to fit in with what was being discussed.

"If you read this note, you will see all you need to know."

Porkchop whips the BBQ sauce of himself and looks around.

Yes ! YES!. Its true. I have a FUCK OFF selectivly recruiting badge on my suit. Its true. May we stop the presses about it? I personally thinks its a solid sound decesion. Given the "current state of affairs" in the last week, I do want to know who I may bring into this life we have. If I have to wonder in 3 weeks if you go all Vampire Glove on US, I deserve to know. If there is nothing to hide I don;t see the problem. No one says you have if you want to join, but if I don;t know you , with these affairs I don't want you.

Honesty hurts but that is the truth. My leader doesn't support that, but as a Sponsor I do. As it's my name vouching. So if that's too hard to figure out, I'm sorry your as Dumb as some catfish that swim around in a pond with blonde streaks in their hair.

Good enough for me Esau.  Again, no disrespect was intended.  Have a great day.

As Kevin walks away from the crowd he pulls a small notebook out of his coat pocket and begins to jot something down......

".....as dumb as some catfish that swim around in a pond with blonde streaks in their hair.'

He mumbles to himself as he disappears into the crowd..."If that's too hard to figure out"......chuckles to self as he shakes his head...."Just say no to drugs."

Porkchop, you may want to know someone's bloodline but they are under no obligation to give it to you. You really can't force them to. Anyone that may have a grudge is capable of saying that they are some random new individual to these shores. There is no absolute way of knowing for sure.

Unless of course crews suddenly got bloodline selective and no one new to our shores has a hope in hell of ever finding a home. I suppose that would be a solution.

I dont believe thats what he is saying, Cin. He will only employe people he knows. If they come to him asking for a job with Genesis, then he will ask who they are. If they decline to answer that question or give a name he doesn't know, he will tell them to seek a home elsewhere. Thats his right as a Sponsor for the family.

The onus is on him to vouch for whomever he takes into the family, and as such he is welcome to be selective in his recruitment.

Cin your very right on that. They do not have to give it to me. But also I do not have to send them a invite. With all the Rogue's, its my right as a sponsor to care who I invite. So if they don't give it, fine.They can go elsewhere. Doesn't bother me. If I know them it lowers the chance of it and honestly its my name vouching for them on the invite being sent. So it is within my right to decide who I feel should have one.

If that offends people, I give two shits less. Never have never will. Just as there are certain bllodlines I will never invite as they always cause issues. Its within my right. Least i say it freely.

I always think it's not the best way to go but we could differ in opinion. I think that people if they are planning shady things would just lie to you anyways. I mean whose really going to come up to a sponsor and be like "In roughly two weeks I plan to rogue and take anyone I can down with me. Sound good mate?"

Let's be honest, the chances of that are going to be slim to none. I'd like to the think the people I know would never put me in a position like that but who knows what the future holds. 

I can see the upsides to what your doing and I Can see the down sides. I think the negative effects would outweigh the positives when it comes to how things go around here. No one whose had a rocky past really wants you to be basing them on their ancestors past all the time, so they may not want to tell you it.  Regardless of what people say, they never do give you a completely clean slate. There is always someone pestering you or trying to find the opportunity to bring up your line's past. So for that reason alone, I think its a horrible way to start off someone's career in our community. Especially on the off chance they actually want to do better than their previous kin.

Too much fucking incest for my style.

I did listen. I also pointed out that Porkchop and I have disagreeing views and why we do.  I never said the door was entirely closed, I said I disagreed with his stance.

As for whatever you are talking about Afghan I am not sure who you are referring to. Perhaps one of the more quieter leaders? Or someone who isn't wearing a bold suit? No idea. You'll have to be more specific I am afraid.

All I'm doing is point out the falseness of your statements. Who these people are do not matter, you can take it upon yourself to learn your history and current events, or not. That is up to you. You might disagree with Porkchop, but at least come out with an argument that is relevant to the conversation. Your argument hardly touched on what Porkchop has in his profile Cin. Nearly your entire argument is based on things that wouldn't happen to him, so you either don't understand what he's doing or you're still just rambling to hear yourself ramble. 

I'll break it down once again for you though.

Porkchop doesn't seem to want to invite those who he doesn't know. Therefor Porkchop will meet with friends and acquaintances and potentially send them an invite.

Your straw man argument has failed, sorry. 

Did I ruffle your feathers AfghanDucky? You seem to be slightly hostile over a conversation and what you deem doesn't fit.

The topic brought up was bloodlines. Porkchop pointed out that he didn't want people he didn't know. Great. Glad we both agree on that.

However, I pointed out that you aren't going to know new individuals to our shores. Which many people who are tired of being bloodlined often portray. People aren't just going to give up their bloodline if you ask for it. Some will, but certainly not all.

So it is possible it may happen to him. Its also possible that people will steer clear of him.

However, you brought up a vague point of a particular line being bold after roguing a lot. So who is that then? Your argument doesn't entirely make sense or prove much of anything other than you seem to want to argue and not follow along.

I don't recall any hostility, must be you just trying to derail the conversation again. 

Yes, I understand why you said it. You also said that it was a negative consequence of him doing that. And I countered it by stating it doesn't matter if a person has this outlook on recruits since they can just go to a different sponsor within the family and still join. Even though I don't have the same outlook as Porkchop I can still try and see things from his perspective and when I try this out I can imagine he feels the opposite, which he might even have touched upon. I believe that he might feel that having someone join at a time when the rogues are many and leaders are dropping frequently for housing them greatly outweighs gaining a new sponsor that comes with no warranty on what they will do. Yes they could be the best earner and the best gun in the entire city, but they could also go into a coma, run their mouth on the streets, hit list and even rogue. So even though I don't hold the same ideals when it comes to this topic as Porkchop I can't blame him whatsoever at this point in time. He is playing it safe and smart.

Now to follow your lead and pose my own straw man argument; at least we know where we can pose as new blood or say we rather not say who our line hails from and do rogue like actions. 

I know it technically might not be an "argument", I just assumed(I know I know) that you would counter this with a defense in which it would turn into an argument. Or maybe I should use the word debate, since argument might seem hostile and frighten you, because there's definitely no room for hostility in the mob.

Seems like a bit of a free for all in here so I'm just going to drop my opinion and bugger off.

The reason there are people who hunt bloodlines is because there are people that hunt bloodlines. "They're looking for me so I've got to topple them first". It's a self destructive cycle that will continue unless people start to grow some balls/vaginas and let shit go.

Anyone ever tried making a character and playing like you're on day 1? You know nobody, have no grudges and can build a great reputation by just being a valuable member. Except you can't, not really. There's a shadow that follows you, constantly poking around to find out who you are and if you've got it in for them. You can reveal all and save your ass (or condemn it), however the illusion is broken and you're just another account, a grey among other shades of grey. Or you don't and wind up on a shit list, simultaneously casting the same shadow over your crew leader who is advised of harboring rogues.

There is room for revenge, however. For example, my current characters lineage, Sammy Gato. Now if the kin of this character felt he had to act out revenge against his father's assailants, he would have plotted against the late Kimble, Visas and Duplicity, among others. But they're all dead now.

I however, have no desire to chase the men and women behind those accounts for further retribution, because I am a fucking grown up and understand that business is business.

Business is business. And that belongs in the streets. Personal is personal, and that has no place in a game. 

Until we learn that and feel like we are able to play the game the way it was meant to be played, and feel like we don't have to constantly plan to hunt or hide bloodlines, we'll be stuck. Stuck despising those in power and pulling cheap shots with underground groups.

Got my forums mixed up, just pretend all the OOC stuff is cleverly worded into RP stuff.

Of course bloodlines matter. It's naive, in my opinion, to think that bloodlines don't play a large part in who a mobster will trust and who they wont. This life of ours is dog eat dog. It's not a book club. We need to have our eyes open constantly if we want to stay alive and trusting the wrong person is an easy way of getting yourself killed. I know that if the son of one of my fallen family members came up up to me and asked to join the family, I would be more inclined to offer them a position, as I knew their parent, I have a fair idea of what sort of person they might be.

Similarly, if the son or daughter of someone I didn't trust asked for permission to join the family, I'd likely think twice. They would have learned the traits of the parents, and that would make me wary. The problem with this attitude, is that if it is taken to the extreme then our world will stagnate. If the same lines are making it to the top, then there will be no new ideas, no innovation. The streets will grow quiet as everybody goes through their well learned routines. We need fresh blood to liven things up, even if that makes life a little more uncertain and chaotic.

Fresh bloodlines need to be given the chance to rise and fall. They also, need to be given the chance to make mistakes and be forgiven those mistakes, in time. From my family's historical records I know there have been members, long long ago,  who have been bloodthirsty murderers who needed little reason to turn their knife or gun on any target. 

Every bloodline is likely to have such a member, a dark past the that bloodline as a whole likes to sweep under the carpet. Should they be judged on that member? Perhaps the next few generations, yes. After that though? I think not.