Yesterday crewleaders met to discuss our society. One topic that was raised was of such importance that it was decided to create this open forum where all could speak, where the community could voice its opinion, and where interruptions could be reduced.

The Question: Should the number of free cities be reduced from 3 to 2 to allow for more established cities to auth a new leader/leaders to run a new city?

I, after volunteering to write down some ideas, have been asked to present this question to the community- and to offer some initial pros and cons. I'd like to clarify that this current speech reflects an objective presentation and not my own beliefs.

The Argument for Yes

This would allow a worthy candidate from an established city to get the opportunity for a city of their own. Candidates would presumably be people who are active, contributing members in the greater community who have proven to be effective leaders with minimal issues. This, again presumably, should lead to a well run city, which helps our business as a whole. Essentially, this would be the "old system" of authing someone into an empty city. There may be ties to the city they come from, but there's an expectation of independence as well. This would also have the result of potentially taking a larger city and splitting a piece of it off elsewhere; while this would not be the main intent, it would certainly be an effect.
 
The Argument for No

This would reduce the number of potential open districts that others could take advantage of using with free city opportunities.
This could potentially expand the influence of an established city, even if there is a tradition of a new city being at least somewhat independent.

This would result in having to deal with...
 
The Elephant in the Room

We currently have seven free city CLs spread through 3 cities. Since Las Vegas and Los Angeles are both full, the city immediately suggested in the crewleader meeting  to remove from the Free City project was Philadelphia. This would, obviously, require Tellurium's crew to move.

Focus

This debate should focus on the fair evolving on the community. Tellurium is, of course, deeply affected by this discussion, but it is a conversation that should focus on our world at large and not become an evaluation of a single crew.

The Debate at Hand

Should there, philosophically speaking, be one less free city to allow for an auth of an existing leader to become a city head?

If yes, should Tellurium be requested to move elsewhere? On one hand, it's the easiest logistical move. On the other hand, she's a CL running an active crew and to push her aside and force her to relocate seems disrespectful.

Please contribute your thoughts on these matters below.

There is an option not yet considered. You could establish PH as the non free city, and leave Tellurium as it's leader. Allowing her to build her city as she sees fit.

Thanks for the suggestion, @LuctioOtiag. I'll note that I did not consider many options at all, although perhaps I will over time as I speak for myself; I merely presented the broadest parameters of the discussion in what I intended to be an objective manner.

I believe that the general purpose of the discussion was to seek a community opinion and see if a consensus emerges; please do not interpret my original statement as containing every potential option for action, as that was not the intention.

Later on, I will no doubt contribute my personal evaluation of the options, including which one I believe to be the best course of action.

Personally I love that this has come to the streets. I have spent some time thinking about it and these are my thoughts.

I love that free cities are available for people who want to take the chance. However, I have noticed a trend. People in Philadelphia seem to leave Philadelphia for whatever reason. We have seen a  lot of heat on that city lately.  This isn't an attack on Philadelphia so please hear me out.

I agree with LucioOtiag, that there isn't a complete need for Tellurium to move.  We do have one city that appears to be busting at the seams and may want to expand. But I don't think the traditional system of one city holding leadership over another will benefit the community.

So if we do look at Philadelphia closing to a normal city, I would propose that she remains. There is no need to push her out of a city she is passionate about. I would not suggest that one city fills up the other two districts either though. Perhaps one established leader that has earned the right to call themselves a Godfather should take over the central district. They would have to be active in the community and want to better it. Not revert it backwards.

However the other open district should come from another city. Again someone else who is for the benefit of the community, not for themselves.

Why do I think this? I think it would benefit all parties to some degree. It would build up Philadelphia from all the heat it has been getting as well. Instead of people being disgruntled with the city being left to one person, we could evolve it so it grows. This would also ensure that Tellurium's hard work does not go without its reward either. In turn she would gain a district that would be hers.

These are just some of my thoughts on the matter though. I can't wait to hear other people's thoughts and ideas.

I like and hate the idea of removing one of the free cities. My biggest con to it is to which of the current leaders do you give the honor of authing a new city leader without the other 2 being annoyed they where not chosen? Is then the best solution to just not auth a new city leader from an existing crew and instead allow Tellurium who has proven herself a capable leader lead the city of PH in a no longer free city state? To me if we are going to go ahead and remove PH from free city status then the best course of action to keep things fair is to do just that. Give her the city, and then hold her responsible for what happens there afterwards just like we would with any other city leader. In this way you remove a free city and at the same time do not have to choose which of the 3 current cities will be responsible for filling it. However personally myself, I don't see anything wrong with having 3 open cities. It has allowed us to see the true colors on several potential leaders without jeopardizing a city on their behalf. Slimming it down to only 6 crews won't likely change much. If we are going to do that, why not just close up the experiment and auth 3 new city leaders 1 to each city, 1 from each of the current cities to lead and see what happens?

LucioOtiag, that would leave a lot of people in the remaining free cities hoping that their city becomes a legitimate city as well, that they become established crews, etc. I'm not sure how well that option would work. However, I know how expensive it is to relocate a crew, as I can see the costs listed on this poster here. 

Shows the poster.

Anyways, I agree here with Dusty. I think that Tellurium should get the option to stay there, and that a person from say Chicago comes over to be the acting Godfather of the central district, and maybe Tellurium stays in OCD but as the underboss. Or something along those lines.

And I also agree with her saying that it should be the two other cities that fill the other districts. So Detroit would send one person to be in one of the empty districts of PH, and then NY would send someone to fill the other empty district. And I think that would be a fair way of going about things.

Is there anything wrong with giving the other free city leaders the option to earn the right to run the city? I would hardly call that a con at all myself. It gives them more incentive to contribute to the community and follow the fine example Tellurium has put forth.

I'd just like to take a moment to correct you Olympia- if I may. I do not think that Tellurium needs to be pushed under someone and all the districts given away. She has worked hard. If and only if Philadelphia does close from a free city to a traditional one I think her efforts should be rewarded. I do not think she should be put under anyone but that one of the districts should be hers.

No one can deny the effort she and her family have put into Philadelphia. It would be wrong to discount that when considering  all of the options.

Yes. With the lack of free city crew leaders we're not seeing them reach their true potential. The idea that we have in-favour and out-of-favour leaders is not really working, at least not when it's a case of free city leader on free city leader. People can pretty much set up and still contribute very little to the community, yet nobody needs to bother worrying about being challenged as there's still plenty of spots available for folk to set up in.  The recent war between TonyCosta and Badwolf was an example of two leader duking it out, neither being out-of-favour, at least not until Badwolf's previous actions came to light.

For this system to work we need to see people setting up and the free cities reaching their limit in regards to amount of people allowed to set up. At the minute, we have space for 18 crews to set up, which I feel is just too many. If this was reduced to 12 then we'll see the limit filling up quicker, once they are and as people grow stronger we may see moves being made on people who are perceived out-of-favour, which will hopefully encourage everyone to contribute more to the community.

What does worry me is the amount of members versus the amount of crew leaders, at present we just don't have enough mobsters to justify having so many leaders, which is part of the reason why I want to see the whole associate movement idea going ahead in future.

Personally, I say close one of the cities permanently, or at least until we see a larger influx of mobsters to our world. We seem to have outgrown our means and I think this is something the Gods should really look into as it's been an issue for a long time now.

To quickly address what Dusty said in response to Olympia-; if you're saying that she would have permission to run her own district independently of the others within the city, I think that'd be a horrible idea. Just thinking realistically, to have an established city means its an organized one. They all work together to reach common goals, majority of the time. If Tellurium was there impeding the other districts from what they wish to accomplish, or if the new crews simply do not trust her, they would have the option to remove her. I'd wish to see Tellurium's wall remain up and free from the fear of dying by the hands of those in her city. Currently what protects us in the free cities is the favor system. I don't think these crews, that would be an extension of an established city, would have to adhere to the same rules and concepts. 

Of course, I would think the final decision whether or not to stay would be up to Tellurium, and her own personal goals. If she felt like she can work with the new blood in town, then by all means, give her a district. I'm just concerned with their safety. 

On topic, I believe effectively closing down PH would be the best option. There are many deserving members of the established cities that should have the ability to open their crews without having to renounce ties to previous families(which is supposed to happen when you open in a free city). Not only would this benefit the current free city leaders, making them feel safer knowing other cities have ample room to grow. It would also benefit the community in general, allowing its members to shine in a new roll of responsibility. 

I am not saying she should be independent of anyone else in the city if the free city closes.
I am saying that if A gets GFC, that she shouldn't have to remain under A.

She could have one of the other districts. 

If it becomes a more traditional city all parties in it would have to work together. But no one should go in with the intent of killing the other. That seems rather counter productive doesn't it?

Does that help clear up my idea a little bit better Chong?

As a person from Philly myself, I like the concept of "the free city". I would not mind it at all if people from elsewhere was authed and located here in PH, and I'm sure they will be welcomed no matter who they are. But just like Dusty said, I think we must hear Tellurium out before we do anything. I am not sure whether she wants to be the leader of our city or not, but nonetheless, she is the one living here at the moment. It would not be a fair move if any of the GF's or other CL's forced her to move to another city just to make PH a free city. 

So in my honest opinion - I would say we should hear Tellurium out first as she is the main thing in this operation. I mean, who would want a whole community vouching for you to move when the only thing you want is for your city to grow? Of course we should consider what the community has to say, too, so we can find something to agree on. 

Well now....I can't win on this one...I come here to be told I speak only to defend my crew or I stay silent and not contribute? I have some thoughts here and these streets will never intimidate me simply because I am happy any day of the week to be accountable for me and my family....

There are things not of this world that I wish I could say here - I can't....and I understand that leads to some people filling in the gaps with assumptions, such is life. A very different view might be formed if speech out of world were possible...

For me, my crew - we are incredibly proud of what we have done here, we are a tight family and are growing and developing well, we love being in Philly, this is our home. I wish to add no fuel to this fire save to say that a free city by definition should be that, free. We have had some lovely telegrams from people wanting to be neighbours and what we need here in Philly is a little bit of time nothing more.

I love by the way that much of this conversation has been about what will keep me safest, thank you. Ours is a tough world and life and I know the risks, I also know I have done all I can to positively add to the community and to connect and talk to leaders and people in the community and to try and resolve conflict in any way I can with the least amount of drama.

In the end the community will decide, for me as a voice for our crew we wish to be in Philly and to see the new world project through to the greatness we know it can be. We don't quit when the going gets a bit tough.

I've seen it from up close, Tellurium worked very hard and IF this might happen, I don't consider this fair to let Tell move out of the city where she worked so hard to be in the position she is in now. But that's my opinion.

I don't mind other crews coming to Philly, I really don't! But I'm speaking for IF it happens. 
Like Tell said it's a tight and massively growing family who are all happy to work for her, all happy they're in Philly. Including me. What is mentioned is that there was some stuff going on. Keyword "was". Tell always managed to survive and keep the family out of trouble from my point of view. That's the main reason why I think moving Tellurium isn't fair at all.

I don't think that closing down a free city is a good decision. You'll take away an opportunity for young CL's to venture out. They also need to learn how it works and in my opinion a free city works perfectly for them. It's a great way to make a name for yourself.

There are many possibilities with this system and in my eyes they will decrease

I agree with @Wolftrazz Tellurium has worked to make a stable environment and all the problems we have seen that came from philadelphia were never from her or her own crew. There is no legitimate reason to remove a free city as every city still has room to create new auths if they desire. Philadelphia still offers a sort of freshness that Vegas and LA dont offer as there is only one crew there now. 

She deserves Philly. It should remain a free city. 

Personally, I don't really think it makes any difference. We have seen a whole host of people setup/disband and, with the exception of Imperial who was snuffed out in a heartbeat, everyone else has been given plenty of chances to sort themselves out. Nobody is feeling any pinch from being in favour or out of favour. so at the moment anyone can setup in Philly, Las Vegas or Los Angeles, contribute nothing and feel no repercussions for doing so. With the proposed change, someone will setup in Philly, contribute whatever they are going to do or not do, and still feel no repercussions.

Therefore, if the only difference is the crew tag they'll wear, I'm wondering why bother?

Hello to everyone in attendance here today.  I haven`t  formally met most of the people here, but that will change in the near future.  

With that being said,  i would like speak on this topic "respectfully" of course, as i was taught by Don Tellurium.

I will not be bias with my "small" input.

As to removing a free city...  well that`s not a tough decision at all.  That`s in the eyes of the Upper Structure, an there vision for a better community as a whole.  So, we (Free city Occupants) ask our selves.  what have the CL`s done or have`nt done well, that would invoke this discussion.

I have`nt been around long enough to really notice any changes, but  i`ve been around for a few mishaps.  If you look at PH as a whole, it  looks very shakey, an empty i can admit that.  But, in the same token if you look at the EFFORTS put forth by one sole CL an crew who does`nt deter  from the original plan set by the upper structure for change.  One would hold PH in the same light as the more flowing free cities.

But, sometimes things don`t  always go as planned do to unfortunate situations, or LACK of others willing the assist.

From what i`ve  read on how others view Don Tellurium, an how i view her.  I would definately say she`s earned her spot, an she should continue to thrive in PH.  

Building a community takes a lot of bending an flexing...   meaning, both sides must oblige each other in the manner that suits both parties, so there`s no sore feelings.

We can all fly together in a flock...  free city or not.

Thank you all for your time.  I hope my input was enlightening or helpful.

Cassidy - 

This is a very sensitive subject, so I will speak carefully.

I have to admit, I am glad to see the consensus on how unfair and disrespectful it would be to ask Tellurium to pack up and move her family. She has, as far as I'm concerned, worked very hard to establish the family she has. The amount of loyalty and trust her family places in her, my self included, is astonishing. To ask her to move aside so that someone else may take over seems rather.. offensive. Should the community decide so, then I feel Tellurium is more than capable of maintaining order as leader of PH, but that is just my view on the matter. 

I have to agree with Woltrazz, in regards to welcoming anyone to our great city and treating them with the utmost respect.
Removing this free city would limit people's ambitions to make a name for themselves, and we in PH feel everyone deserves a chance.  

I feel though, Tellurium is more than capable of handling this fine city of ours however the decision turns out in regards to Free City or not and regardless of the outcome, I am honored to be an Entangled Element. 

I am really not certain what else I can say on the matter. 

This indeed is a difficult situation. There is no completely fair resolution. As Ms Logan has so eloquently put it, we have a very real elephant in the room, that of the existing Philadelphia crew run by Tellurium. Whilst I'm in agreement that there is far less of a need for wild cities and more need for stable ones, I think we can all agree that the logical action would be to make Philly that city. I agree with the majority here that Tellurium should be allowed to remain in Philly. It would be wrong to demand or force her to move. That being said, I also believe that it would be wrong to just force a new leader upon her.

I believe that each city that wishes to occupy one of the currently unoccupied districts of Philly should put forth up to 2 nominations of who they would like to set up. The Nominees should not currently be hands or CLs, they should be fresh auths. Each of the Nominees should then post a flyer in the streets, stating why they should be given this chance, why they should be authed into Philly. As per any post, Joe public will then have the chance to question the content of said poster. After a period of say, 1 week, a special meeting of the current Godfather Council, or whatever you fine folks are calling it today should convene, and along with Tellurium, should pick two of the nominees to auth into Philly. One into each of the empty districts. This will now leave Philadelphia once more an official city, one with 3 crews, and one where everyone has a more or less equal chance to earn Godfather status and achieve the coveted position of Godfather chairman.

I believe this to be the only truly fair way of resolving the issue.

I think we need to take a step back at looking at the immediate effects of either option, and look at the long term effects.

Although there are currently checks and balances set with The Pillars, we need to ensure that as a community, we establish our own checks and balances to prevent any party from creating too powerful of an alliance.

My personal opinion is that, a traditional city is generally more likely to grow into a "power" city, versus a simple open city that results with people generally not working together for the betterment of the whole.

By having more traditional cities, I think it creates a more balanced field. Sure, it could just lead to larger alliances, however I genuinely feel that if The Pillars have the community as a whole in their best interests. I think that they will reward those who put in the effort and hard work and set those people up in traditional cities, and not simply expanding their own personal operations.

With that being said, this is indeed La Cosa Nostra, and at the end of the day, if it is for personal gain and protection, wouldn't bother me one bit.

However, I simply feel that open cities generally result with slower progress and quick turn around.

Sure, they benefit those who might otherwise not be able to obtain a level of power of running their own crews... however just think open cities generally minimizes the risk for established cities, furthering the gap between the two as fresh faces keep having to step up in these open cities while the existing organizations continue to grow.