I note this says under Made.

I assume once someone become eligible for promotion we are permitted to ask whatever we please as to previous identities? We don't, I'm just curious if we can.

I enjoy this idea but this will be very enlightening to lots of people, I will always ask if someone played before to gauge their experience

Thanks Izzy for this, Bloodlining has gone way too far and I am glad there will be a stop to this! What was done/happened in the past is the past that is where it should be left. But some people do tend to hold grudges and never forgive others. I am glad for this and sure hope that "people" can learn to just move on and start all new. Each new account should be treated as a new clean slate.

So, if they are under Made Man we aren't allowed to ask? But once they are promoted then it's different or?

What if they are killed once they are made man and have disclosed their bloodlines? That is within the rules now is it not?

I think you have to basically hope you earned enough on yourself that they wont kill you, or keep up an incog basically.

What if I wanted my Cl dead? You are making it pretty easy if I only have to become a sponsor then ask the stupid question to a thug.

That raises a pretty fair point actually.

OHHHHH. Fucking touche.

Squishy makes a fair point. 

I've only given sponsorship to four or five people, and each one of them I trust entirely. 

And even then, they are to mail me with a short explanation of the conversation/recruiting process before I will sign off on an invite being sent. It's been like that since I set up, as I wanted this family to be something very special. Some leaders just give out sponsor ability to anyone in the hopes that they'll do the recruiting so the leader doesn't have to.

Imo if that gets them DDed, it's on them.

(Just to play both sides of the argument - this is going to *directly* effect the amount of Sponsors available, which is going to effect Rebuild mode greatly in the future at some point.)

First: A disclaimer. I have no dog in this fight. I’ve just come back after a couple of years away and I am blissfully ignorant of the game’s politics, which groups are which and who their members are, or even who the ‘identity’ of most of the top players are. I gotta say, ignorance is bliss. I’m having a blast. That said I’m obviously aware of the ‘bloodline’ issue as per the OOC thread it inspired the other day.

Anyway, this worries me quite a lot. Perhaps I’m cynical and Machiavellian but my initial thought was the possibility of abuse - from both ‘sides’ could be pretty staggering here, and in addition I could envisage some scenarios not precisely being clear cut - requiring admins to make a subjective judgement call on a pretty far reaching issue.

What happens if I sign up with a CL I hate, and try and goad or entrap them into talking about bloodlines? The most blatant example might be something like ‘Hey boss, you used to have an an account called XXXX right? I was in your crew then’. Should a CL fear that any member asking them a question like might be someone trying to get them in trouble?

What happens if I sign up with a CL I hate and then start talking to other member and asking them who they are and they complain to admins. What if I lie through my back teeth and told me that my CL told me to do it on whatsapp or some other medium that admins can’t access so that they’d have plausible denial. Who are you going to believe?

An extension of the above mentioned. What happens if I hate my CL but I work to gain their trust and get a sponsor position, only to use it to shaft them? If I betray my CL’s trust as a MM to get them killed by another player, that’s just a game strategy. If I do it to get them admin killed, that seems like a massive exploit and an inherently shit possibility to exist within the game.

As a CL...is my optimal strategy here just not not trust anyone as a sponsor? Or even to take in new members? If I was...say...half full, I’m not sure I would see the cumulative benefit of even 20 added members as outweighing the risk that I might instantly die in the event that I make a slip up. Far better to surround myself with an ever smaller cadre of people, surely?

I’m assuming that CL’s will be able to ask WG’s for their bloodlines in relation to MM promotion, as you acknowledge the fact that hte general rule is for CL’s to be more lax when punishing made and below.

If this is correct, if I’m a CL and I ask a WG for their bloodline with the notion of promotion and then keep them at WG...do I die? Is this not tantamount to CL’s not actually having the autonomy to decide who they promote?

What if there is a gradual change in the way CLs collectively approach punishment. What if, over time, CLs did start punishing overall crews for <WG transgressions as they currently tend to do for MM+? Would the rule have to be revised given that it’s currently predicated on the fact that this doesn’t happen?

If this seems hyper critical, I want to be 100% clear that I am personally absolutely against any player-made policy which prevents other players from actually and physically playing the game. That said, I can’t seen any other outcome here other than the inevitability of a subjective circumstance arising, and it quickly spiralling beyond anyone’s control.

oh god. sorry for all the bold. I am a cretin.

Can you clarify which specific positions you're referring to by "execution of the upper structure"?