For at least 20 years mass shootings in the USA have been happening. I find it deplorable and disgusting that the current President is being blamed for the shootings on his watch. At least five of the current 2020 Presidential candidates (usless fucks) are pointing the finger at President Trump. They immediately turn this into a political charade immediately following their one sentence of prayers and condolences. Yet, for the last 20 years, no other President starting with Clinton was blamed. The shooter in Ohio was a supporter of Elizabeth Warren. Should we blame her? Absolutely not!

Blaming politicians is a total waste of time.  

I can be long winded on this topic. In short, the Second Amendment and all other Amendments are in place to test the times. To suggest altering in anyway, is a sign of weakness. 

The shooting in El Paso would not have been as deadly as it was if Walmart would of allowed their employees who were legal gun owners to carry while working. 

I am torn on the Mother holding her two month old while shopping for her five year old who was to start school this week. The Mother is dead and the Father. The two month old is in the hospital suffering broken bones from a direct result of their Mommy's protection. Their Daddy is a victim too. I cannot shake this horrific scene. 

My problems don't compare to the recent horrific and sad events. 

Sorry I must disagree on you there, many harsh words from this president  had made your country full of hate by many, and thats what you get.

Hate spreads more and more thanks to much he had said, now he will visit El Paso and I can assure no one there will have him there. Not any president have ever said so many horrible things about other like Trump, this is a fact, cant any see this then I cant argue with such, sorry.

I feel much for many Us citizens that now being more and more hated around the world thanks to this man, he should have learn years ago to shut up sometimes, now we see the fruit of his words sadly. Saying all mexicans and all refuges are rapist and so on, funny, or. Pointing at a whole country like that and then thhat idiot shot just mexicans in El Paso, 252 mass-shooting now this year alone, when this will end, when will the right peopel in the states understand there muct be someting radical done to end those mass-killing, many things are wrong and it starts at the top and goes way down also to stop those military-weapon any can buy, ITS sick really watching this from aside, I really hope not much worse will come but sorry to say that I think even more will happen before  the majoruty gets it.

There is nothing in black and white supporting your disagreement.

Btw about blaiming politicians, its them who makes the laws, its them sitting in gun-lobbys knees and cant do anything about gun-control since they got so much in pay from that organisation NRA, its them to blame for all killing dor sure.

There is nothing in black and white supporting your disagreement.

Could be, and I really appriciate you try to make a good conversation about this fact, its a important task for all americans really.

Was watching the news the other day and were comparing Chicago's tight gun laws to texas and how never stopped the murders and shootings there.    They were almost like were just happy to live with it, how it was.   The American then was all you don't have guns in UK so people just created the knife crime epidemic instead.  If people want to kill they will kill was the basic message.

I am not one to comment on political views but how is it a Presidents fault when some sick person goes off and kills people? 

We as people are the reason this goes on because being a parent or a friend to someone who needs help we push them aside and say its not on 

me what they do, plus when those people and most of the shoots have either seen a doctor for mental issues or have been told to see one.

But with our laws its a Patient Doctor privacy which a doctor can not discuss what that patient says. So if they tell them they plan on harming 

someone then they can't tell anyone. In reality we need new laws saying that if someone tells a doctor they plan on harm then the doctor should

have the right to call and report that person as a threat to the local police and put on a no gun watch list or something to that effect.

Taking guns away from people will not solve this problem just like with drugs its a never ending battle. It does not start with the current 

President it started many many presidents ago we need change yes but when you got a side that wants us to give up our rights to bare arms 

then I think its time to really see the whole picture. But I won't go into that now but if its boils down to it I will but let the blame game stop its 

not going to prevent some sicko from doing it again. We really need better mental health for people. Just my opinion and yes I flip flop I know.

Have a wonderful day! :)

Really? Days after a shooting is the time to debate this? People have literally died in two separate incidents in under a week, and your main concern is "I like my guns. YOU CAN'T TAKE MY GUNS!"?

Sure you like having guns; it makes you feel powerful and gives you the courage to confront someone you wouldn't ordinarily confront, but when there are mass shootings on an almost daily basis - and the victims are overwhelmingly innocent and unarmed - most normal folk would stop and take stock. Only an emotionless fanatic would overlook the mountains of independent data condemning the pro-gun stance, because of a personal preference.

But okay then, let's discuss it.

The thing with the gun debate, however, is there are a limited number of arguments pro-gun folk spout ad-infinitum, all of which are very simply dismantled with a bit of prodding, so I have prepared a few responses to the inevitable: -
 

- But it's our second amendment right, and you can't change that!
You do understand what "amendment" means, right? Plus second amendment provides for a "well regulated militia". Are you a militia? Well trained as a mini army, were you? And who regulates ya?

- Guns don't kill people, they're just tools.
Very dangerous tools, which teenagers can buy in supermarkets. Would you be ok with teenagers being able to buy ricin or a petrol driven chainsaw in their local Walmart? No? But it's useful in certain circumstances, so why not make it available to all the good guys who know how to use it?

- UK knife crime rose after gun prohibition.
Knife murders are higher per capita in America than in the UK, but let's disregard that and imagine it's not true. How many people could you kill in 30 seconds with a knife? Now compare that to how many you could kill with a gun - even a hand-gun. Surely the preservation of life is the key point here, no? Guns cause more death, faster and from farther away than a knife ever could.

- The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is with a good person with a gun.
So where were these "good people with guns" in any of the hundreds of mass shootings to have taken place in America? As far as I'm aware, the only good people with guns to have stopped one of these mass shootings were the police, who would remain armed and properly trained?

- We already have gun checks, making them stricter wouldn't reduce the number of guns currently available, it'd just make it harder for good people to get guns.
Well, that doesn't appear to be working, now does it? And with varying state laws about buying, owning and carrying a gun, it's a bit disingenuous to say there's a blanket federal law governing gun checks or gun ownership.

- It's not the fault of gun owners, it's the fault of mental health issues / video game violence.
Well, if you're arming mentally ill people, then gun laws DEFINITELY need to be addressed, surely? And video games were widely dismissed as a result of increased violence in the 90s.

- Chicago has a higher gun death rate now that it has outlawed guns.
I believe you can conceal carry with a FOID permit, and non-Chicago residents with an out of state gun permit are allowed to conceal carry in Chicago without a FOID card, so I mean, not really prohibited, is it?

- Criminals won't surrender their guns even if they're illegal.
They won't be able to openly carry and use them either if they're subject to being stopped and searched, and could face jail time, would they? Introduce a "see something, say something" initiative to arrest and disarm anyone carrying a gun, then raid their house and confiscate the lot. Simple.

- Cars kill more people than guns do.
Cars have a very specific use. You're only allowed to drive once you're properly trained and fully licensed to use a car. Not so with guns.

- Alcohol prohibition didn't work, so why would gun prohibition?
Bit of a silly argument comparing booze consumption - something willingly and intentionally imbibed, to something that is forcefully and dangerously thrust upon you, like a bullet. It's a bit like saying "people would still have sex if was illegal, so why should rape be illegal?". One is a personal choice which may carry some health implications, the other is forcible and very damaging. It's a stupid argument.
 

So yeah... if you're gonna use any of those dated, and very easily dismantled arguments, just... okay? Cos I only briefly touched on each of those points, off the top of my head. I could go into much more detail, if pressed.

As for Trump. Well, I actually agree that you can't lay the blame entirely at his feet. He has undoubtedly fueled a rise in right wing sentiment, but his campaign and subsequent victory in the election was facilitated by Cambridge Analytica, just as the Brexit result was (and about a hundred other right wing political campaigns throughout the world in the last 20 years).

The way it was done is by spreading misinformation, designed to mislead and perpetuate a rise in a desired sentiment... so if I blame anyone, I blame Cambridge Analytica and the social media sites for encouraging the vile right wing, xenophobic rhetoric online.

Just remember - most of what you see on social media is specifically targeted at you, based on the shit you've already watched and liked, and from the cookies of the sites that you visit. It's done intentionally, maliciously and for a reason, so do your own independent research before you blindly believe what Facebook or Twitter tells you to.

I'll go ahead and second everything Enjolras said.

Also, I should note that I am an American gun owner. Ready to give them up as soon as a ban rolls around--something that I would very much welcome.

It is the test of times. Today we have schools teaching opinions instead of history. We have bullies in the schools and on social media. We have social media radicalizing our youth.

I grew up with guns not locked up. My siblings and I were told not to touch the guns and we obeyed. Everything starts from the home. Not our Government. I live close by to a community where every household are legal gun owners. There are no killings in this area. Nor has anyone of those guns took a life illegally. 

What BabyFace stated is a fact. Its called the HIPPA law. This law prohibits the release of mental health issues. This law needs to change. That is the only change I will agree with at this time. 

There seems to be an increase in vile left wing rhetoric on social media thus why I changed my political party of nearly 38 years. In the last three years many left wingers are responsible for mass shootings. 

I think we need more strict laws and better mental health

Chicago has the strictest laws in the Country. Guns are coming across our border too seven days a week. 

I'm not sure you can call liberalism "vile". The reason I referenced the right wing being vile is because it's existentially exclusionary and insular, whereas liberalism is designed to be progressive and inclusive. As far as the policitics of the shooters, well, I can't comment because I don't have those facts to hand. Perhaps you could share your source?

I do agree that social media is radicalising people on an unprecidented scale, which is why I mentioned it. I wouldn't say that's isolated to left wing politics though - as I said, Trump's campaign and Brexit are both right wing campaigns...

To be fair though, I would consider any concession from gun lobbyists to be a victory - any change is good change. If the release of mental health issues completely eradicates mass shootings, then great! Sadly, I don't think that would happen though, because not all mental health issues are diagnosed and not every shooting is a mental health issue anyway.

As far as not having guns locked up, well, that's just not safe and it's how many accidents happen in a gun owning home. Whereas, if you're gonna cite "home defence" as a reason for gun ownership, well, I can't really see a home invader waiting for you to unlock your gun safe just to fill him with lead, so neither is really an acceptable solution imo. Probably best to just not use it as an argument tbh.

Right wing is existentially exclusionary and insular? Are you aware of the recent debates between the 2020 Presidential hopefuls? 

I'm not referring to what's said in debates. In broad terms, right wing politics and conservatism generally espouse closed borders and tackling immigration, whereas left wing liberalism advocates inclusivity for people regardless of their creed or colour.

Lets be honest - you can hardly say you're inclusive if you're trying to deport large swathes of the population...

I live in El Paso, and it was a horrific tragedy.  What is terrible is watching the media turn this into a political agenda/shitshow.  

This is a rough topic and sad one to have at that. Guns for or against? I cant really say one or the other works. What is clear is that we have some disturbed people running around. Do we focus on mental health? Do we ban every item that is used by people to kill others? 

The right answer is not clear thats for sure. But what is clear is that we need to do something. As a gun owner i taught my kids respect for the firearms and then lock them away to ensure they could not get to them easy. Do I mind the background checks, no. I find no problem with verification that I can own a firearm. 

Again the only thing for certain is too many have lost their lives. For that... i am very sad. 

I am just sick to my stomach that people have that much hate in their heart, Not anything political but just pure Hate!!!

President Obama deported more illegal immigrants then any President in our history. And he had the backing of his party.