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Stance on Pickpocketing & Mugging Started by: Homer on Jan 02, '20 22:27

It has been brought my attention that crew leaders have been asked for clarification regarding the pickpocket policy. I helped compose the original change under city leader rulings and my words still stands. Under the previous regime a set of rules were put in place, brought forth by myself and other crew leaders at that time, these rules were somewhat successfully followed. It is as such the desire of the current leadership to exercise and implement a similar ruling.

A few of us have been asked for clarity regarding pickpocketing and mugging. Thus we have decided to continue with the former ruling put in place. 

 

The rank of Made Man has always been of paramount importance in this "thing of ours", and we; as the leaders of the seven cities are going to begin re-emphasizing the importance of "the button". Ultimately in the spirit of rebuilding we want the men and women of this country to strive to earn their button. We have thusly decided that going forward if you are an associate of a family, meaning Wise Guy and below; if you attempt to pilfer the pockets of a Made Man or above, they have every right to take the appropriate action without repercussion. This basically means that should a Made Man and above find their pockets being violated by an associate, they will not only be entitled to mug but will be encouraged to do so. Should this alone not dissuade associates from trying their luck and testing their stealthy powers, should the Made Man+ decide that your life should be forfeited as a result of this violation, they will have the power to end it, without consultation, repercussion or even a blemish on their conscience.

 

We have seen the prestige of Made Man dwindle over recent years and this is our first step as leaders to restore some of the power and respect that is due to a Mafioso of this post.

 

To the Made Men and above of the world, I would advise that you take it upon yourselves to reflect on the responsibility this places at your feet to act reasonably, rationally and as a person of your status in our world should. This means not abusing your powers and simply helping yourselves to the pocket change of associates at your leisure but rather serving as role models and men and women of renown. We will do our best to restore the prestige to this position, it is then up to you to meet these standards.

 

 

I hope this ruling outlines and more importantly clarifies our stance on Pickpocketing and Mugging etiquettes. 

I highly encourage discussions and thoughts from my fellow mafioso's.

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Could you please be as kind to clarify if a made man pickpockets me (below made) and i mug? what would then happen to me? as i do not like anyone in my pockets. thanks kindly

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Speaking from experience, some of our finer examples of Made Men+ have targeted associates, then pick pocketed them, followed by taunting of the associated so you feel obliged to mug in return.  Then that becomes an excuse to shoot you and claim they were attacked with no consequence as you are no longer alive to defend yourself.

So, prepare yourself to just take the PP and walk away as that is basically what this means.

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Sachetto steps forwards after listening to Homer 's speech. Made Men of this world do deser

ve respect, that is where we definitely agree. But however the rule you’re currently proposing is in my opinion very prone to being abused.
I propose a similar rule which still gives the same respect that Made Men deserve in our world. But without it being as abusable as it was before, I propose after such event happens the Made Man reaches out to the perpetrators crew leader, and demands repayment + potentially extra money for extra “damages”. (Within reason of course). If this is however refused further consequences can be sought after.

 

This way no young new associates of our world will be killed without them having a chance to learn about this rule and without it being abused by the Made Men of our world.


This way both parties are liable and I don’t think it would cause as much drama as the previous rule caused.


Your Humble Witcher ~ Sachetto
 

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I can only agree to what Sachetto wrote and that it should run through the respective CL first instead made men shooting. It has been as Houdini also mentioned abused in the past, without real consequences on certain people.

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This takes away our right to defend ourselves against made+ pp'ers! stances should always be respected and respect is a two way street in my personal opinion, i will also always defend myself against unwanted violations of my personal space.

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I’ve always believed that being a made guy means nobody should be putting hands on you.
If someone puts hands on you, and they aren’t made…. What happens to them is the business of nobody else.

With that being said, if you’re a made guy, you should be smart enough to understand how the business works. There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules, and that’s just life. You have to be smart enough to realize that. If that wiseguy is a heavy earner for a person big enough, then YOU simply need to be smart about how you handle it.

If you’re made and you aren’t smart enough to figure out who you can or can’t shoot for putting hands on you, then… well my friend, there are bigger problems that need to be addressed there.

With that being said, all you associates need to start using your heads. Are you really worried over a measly 15k?

Oh no, the big-bad made guy snatched you pocket change. Is that really the end of the world?
Why not consider that an investment? Why not think about how you could use that as a way to interact with that made guy and maybe even impress/make some connections.

Next time someone snatches your pockets, challenge them to see who will have the upper hand after a week of going back and forth strategically PPing and then flying to safety.

Why whine and complain, when you can try to figure out how to make this work for you?
We’re the fucking mob. Use your heads.

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I do, you do, its ok but If im caught I know ill get my ass kicked. You will too.

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With that being said, all you associates need to start using your heads. Are you really worried over a measly 15k?

Oh no, the big-bad made guy snatched you pocket change. Is that really the end of the world?

This...

 We’re the fucking mob. Use your heads.

Followed by that always makes me laugh. Do you think that more organized families would be perfectly fine with one of their earners, getting their pocket picked by some other guy in another family? Like some other soldier can walk right up to an associate under another family's protection, and shake em down for some money and they're just expected to sit there and do nothing. Add to that fact that a lot of the city leaders say they don't wanna be involved in Pick pocket disputes and it seems there's some real problems here. 

So the bosses are expected to just let their people's lives be in jeopardy "over a measly 15k" and just let that slide? There's also respect factor in place here. I know the money that I earned on the streets, I worked for. So if somebody just reaches in my pocket for my hard earned money, just because they have a rank that I don't I'm just supposed to say "oh well" and let it go? 

You just said we're the mob, what mobsters do you know are just fine with having ANY money taken from them for no reason at all and not having it returned? 

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Rudolph_pipilo, I'm glad you get it! That's exactly what I'm saying. 
That any fucking mobster with a brain would know to not give two shits about any drama that could happen from an exchange that involves $15,000.

Want to know why?

(Total Available Cash in our industry: $3,300,000,000 that means an average of $6,560,636 per santioned mafioso.


This is why, it's a simple rule. If a made guy feels the need to pick your pocket. Suck it up. Your $15,000 is not worth the headache and potential deaths. 

Is this how you lead? Is this how you use your brain?
You have a $15,000 bullshit exchange.  MAKE IT A FUCKING ADVANTAGE. WORK OUT A DEAL WITH THE GUY TO BE ALLOWED TO PICK HIS OR HER POCKETS. 

What the fuck do you want next? Money to flow down the chain? La Cosa Moscow? 


 

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See? Grooglez you misunderstand the point entirely. The point isn't about the AMOUNT of money. The point is about the protection, and the message it stands. A leader can't be assed to protect their member over 15k and a "mobster" should lay down and just be fucked by another "mobster" because it's just 15k, what kinda fucking message does that send?

So I'm gonna kick up my hard earnings, for a home and protection and all that good stuff and not get the protection I'm kicking up for in return because the amount? What am I kicking up for then? See you wanna make it about the amount. I'll level with you. Sure 15k ain't really shit here in this life of ours, but the message. I see that that's gonna be lost here in this conversation so it's pointless, since to you, all you can see is the numbers and the stats and all that, and that's exactly why I think it's funny when people throw out "We're mobsters" "This is the mafia"

Mobsters don't let anyone go in their or their earners pockets if they're protected. Nobody is gonna want their hard earned money stolen, doesn't matter if it's 100k, 10k, or a dollar. If they can steal 15k from you what else can they steal or do? But fuck it right? It's just a little bit of shopping money..

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Rudolph_Pipilo
Do you think any captain and upper structure of a family type of person will worry about protecting an associate over the treatment and respect of being a part of this thing? Being a made person, makes you part of a family. The family always comes first. Even if it's not your direct crew/family, a "friend of ours" is sided with over a "friend of mine". With that being said, may I also remind my "there's always exceptions to the rules" rant earlier.
 

Ultimately, I think in matters of small petty theft, criminal organizations expect their members to be able to operate at that level by themselves. Work it out. Figure it out. Prove that you are a predator and not the prey. That you can handle the small business without bringing heat to the family.

Yes, if too many guys are targeting associated from a certain crew, then a sit down can be made and some sort of solution found.

There are so many solutions that an associate can make before it get's to that point.
Bank your cash. Pick their pockets back. Strategize your movements and stalk your target to see if they're about to doze off for a nap to give you enough time to pick their pocket and get lost before they get a chance to put the beat down on you.

But just don't ever, ever, ever put your hands on a made guy.
Pick his pockets all you want.
But even if he punches you in the face twice. You don't punch him.
You can beat the shit out of his associate maybe, but you just don't put your hands on a made guy.

 

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You guys can argue the merits of this ruling all you like . The simple fact remains that this has been in force for a while now, its just been brought back to life since the demise of the soviet bear. We are simply honouring it and bringing it back to the forefront for every one to honour. 

How anyone is shocked by this is beyond me, especially those kins that have returned. Your fathers and your mothers had to abide this rule and so do you, im not sure whats overly difficult to comprehend?

Whoreable put it perfectly, PUT IT IN YOUR RULES WITHIN THE WALLS OF YOUR HQ. easy, simple, job done. 

If YOU choose to disrespect the rank of made man+ then there will be consequences of such action. 

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I agree with both Homer and Sachetto on this ruling. With Homer because made men should have the respect that they deserve. The CL has given them trust within the crew to accept them as part of the family, and this should be shown through giving them responsibility of their own actions. They don’t need “babying” by the CL on all matters, especially regarding pp disputes.
That being said, I also don’t think the made man should go above the CL and be able to shoot his/her gun around without consequence or conscience. This is where I agree with Sachetto. If a made man wants to mug after a pp, then go ahead. However, taking another’s life should be something that is done with calculated thought rather than in cold blood of the moment. This should be discussed with the CL beforehand who can make a decision based on the evidence presented.
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QueenFrostine steps forward to speak.

"Honestly, I think that there should be a time frame on shooting the mugger. I mean, we have time frames on how long we can mug after, why not make it even? 

I don't think crew leaders shouldn't really be involved unless there is a pattern or a trend of someone taking advantage of this."

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For some of us, $15K is a lot of money and it's something I have to work very hard to obtain. I cannot peruse the streets as my ancestors once did, so every transaction is important to me. Take that for what it's worth.

 

That being said, I agree that Made+ should have the leeway to do as they see fit. But being wife mafiaso, they also need to understand that people hold grudges. Associates do not stay associates forever, and the abused dog never forgets.

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How anyone is shocked by this is beyond me, especially those kins that have returned. Your fathers and your mothers had to abide this rule and so do you, im not sure whats overly difficult to comprehend?

Actually, this is news to me and I need more clarity. So this ruling is universal and trumps individual city rulings? I ask because it seems some of the upper structure aren't completely on board with this. Which, in my opinion, is kind of sloppy to propose such a thing without a consensus.

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 I ask because it seems some of the upper structure aren't completely on board with this. Which, in my opinion, is kind of sloppy to propose such a thing without a consensus.

The way I am tracking this, is that the rule stands. The upper structure has more important issues to deal with than a measly 15k. If you don't want to risk getting shot, then stick to PP other associates and CA's. Or better yet, associates can rob the graves of the dead and can potentially make the same 15K, and it's completely safe.

 

However, on the flip side, I would suggest that the Made+ member get in touch with their respective CL or RH and find out where they stand on this issue. Find out what is expected of you in that respect and act accordingly. 

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After hearing all the discussion Sachetto thought he'd chime in to the discussion one more time, he still questions the actual validity of this rule, because wouldn't this require Made Men to respect Capo's (and so on) using the same concept? And if you do apply this; how do you take into account youngsters in positions of power? Say a Wise Guy is a Left or Right hand? Would they fall under the same concept Homer ?

I think it is vital to have this all figured out; before applying a super vague rule in our land. Maybe those that are in favor of this rule chime in? Whoreable Insta

After delivering these words the Witcher left to find a new job to embark on.

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For some of us, $15K is a lot of money and it's something I have to work very hard to obtain. I cannot peruse the streets as my ancestors once did, so every transaction is important to me. Take that for what it's worth. That being said, I agree that Made+ should have the leeway to do as they see fit. But being wife mafiaso, they also need to understand that people hold grudges. Associates do not stay associates forever, and the abused dog never forgets. - Yeetzi

 
So if the 15k is that important to you, why are you not storing your funding with the bank? That would alleviate that concern very easily.
 

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