@Zeitgeist. Valid points, but I think what several people here are concerned about is the scenario below:

MM+ robs an associate with an advertised PP stance. Associate mugs MM+. MM+ shoots associate.

I understand your concerns, Yeetzi.

Ultimately, I think with this guideline a mobster's PP stance isn't relevant unless above MM. I know this would seem unfair and cruel to some, however there have already been many posts reiterating the importance of the MM+ designation in this thing of ours. Moreover, with this rule the MM+ role is being reemphasized to highlight & reinforce the original intent of an earned button on these shores. We as a community should give the initiative the support to succeed.

Thanks for the reasonable response Chaos. My ancestors are of the old world and believe the button has lost significant value. I also agree that MM should have the ability to do more, get away with more, etc. But we'd be fools to allow MM to kill associates of another city without the consultation of leaders. All associates would then be subject to execution by any button man across this world. And that may end up FURTHER devaluing the button, as crewleaders would rush to open the books on associates in order to truly "protect" them as sponsorship status once did.

Nobody should listen to Homer. He is a piece of shit. I don't know where Insta gets his facts. This has not been enforced for awhile as stated. 

I read where the CL's need to be consulted and I ask where do the Cosigliers come into play?

"There are thieves everywhere in America, just because someone is a Made Man doesn't mean they can't have their pockets picked. Yes, men and women with the Made rank should have some respect, but isn't respect earned these days?

Just because I am a leader doesn't mean I am exempt from being pickpocketed, if someone wants to try and pick my wealthy pocket then why shouldn't they? Hats off to them if they succeed.

Personally, putting a block based on rank in my views is not the way to go, whilst mugging can be seen as some as an attack I don't believe it is. If you are quick enough to catch the face of the person then you have the option to chase the down."

Monty remembers an incident which happens to him and has a little snigger to himself.

"On Christmas day I was minding my own business when 'StripheGotti tried to PICKPOCKET' me, I saw him and immediately mugged him as I had the right to do so. StripheGotti I assume took this as an insult and tried to kill me which ended instead with him being killed. Who is in the wrong? No one... Except his attempted kill which was a bit overboard.

Each individual believes in what they think is right and wrong, we can't force people to think that, it's just an instinct."

Personally, putting a block based on rank in my views is not the way to go

"Yup I agree with this. I fail to see how a rule like this will make associates respect made men. If anything this breeds contempt. If you want to be respected then earn it with your actions and not by hiding in a safe space. I prefer to be on an equal footing with my adversaries. What's the fun in shooting fish in a barrel?" Chiron finished his piece and left to have his dinner. For some odd reason he was in the mood for some fish and chips.

Should this alone not dissuade associates from trying their luck and testing their stealthy powers, should the Made Man+ decide that your life should be forfeited as a result of this violation, they will have the power to end it, without consultation, repercussion or even a blemish on their conscience.

Just to clarify anyone who shoot's someone in my family without consulting me regardless of what mugging or PP stance you may all have will be shot at. Take it as you please . 

I like DougRoss

"DougRoss, so if my understanding is correct, you plan to act against the rules laid out by all the city heads should one of your members be killed for attempting to pick the pockets of someone with the rank of Made and higher?

I'm fairly certain that Homer spoke these words earlier, but I'll repeat them."

Monty clears his throat and speaks.

"We have thusly decided that going forward if you are an associate of a family, meaning Wise Guy and below; if you attempt to pilfer the pockets of a Made Man or above, they have every right to take the appropriate action without repercussion. This basically means that should a Made Man and above find their pockets being violated by an associate, they will not only be entitled to mug but will be encouraged to do so. Should this alone not dissuade associates from trying their luck and testing their stealthy powers, should the Made Man+ decide that your life should be forfeited as a result of this violation, they will have the power to end it, without consultation, repercussion or even a blemish on their conscience."

"So if you act against the ruling, what then happens to you?"

This is exactly the reason i believe this needs to be reassessed, how many crew leaders will also stand by their members like DougRoss?

I for one understand exactly where Doug is coming from so we need to ask ourselves in a situation like the one he provides where would it end? tit for tat until each and every one of us is dragged into a war all in the name of a pp/mug ruling? some dead cert clarification would be appreciated on this and Rules and process need to be looked at.  

"I understand completely that a crew leader will stick by his or her member, I would do exactly the same... On the other hand, if it was a ruling laid out by all city heads that a Made has the option to kill an associate due to pick pocketing, who am I to argue that ruling? I abide by my Godfather Chairmans ruling and what he says goes.

If my pockets are attempted to be picked by someone who has not earned the right respect, then from this ruling I can kill anyone who tries. Right? Providing of course that have not yet reached the status of Made."

and just out of curiosity if you picked my pocket and i retaliated would i be shot? does my standing as a right hand have any bearing on this at all? or is this case by case?

"I don't think you can use this rule to bully, or I don't understand what you are getting at. The rule wasn't created for people to be bullied, it was created to show respect to the rank of Made and higher but somehow I think your father either wasn't informed or didn't care.

I don't mean to disrespect you or your father by any means, surely though this announcement would've reached either one of you and you were aware of the possible outcomes?"

Monty turns his attention to Kaiya.

"Kaiya, whilst you may be a trusted Right Hand to JustinBieber, I don't believe you have the right to shoot if you are pick pocketed as you don't meet the single requirement... Which is attain the rank of Made."

i would never shot as stated i'm asking if i would be shot for mugging a made?

and by that logic surely then why respect a mademan that got his/her button from their CL? they are not trusted to myself then surely? i'm i being asked to respect someone who got their button elsewhere yet they don't respect me as a right hand?

you must to respect to get the respect, so i think the pickpocket stances should be respected. I don't think is so difficult to read a not pickpocket friendly advert and if you pickpocket a player you must take the risk of get mugged or go pickpocket cas only.

You heard it here folks! The End Of The World is the only tag out here with any real protection. Do we have another? Going once, going twice!

I'd like to speak my mind again as my words got somewhat ignored and lost in all these ranting/arguing/explaining, even if that might be also because my name is not really as important.

The fact that powerful people in charge made these rules doesn't automatically make everyone being ok with them, some dissent it's understandable I think. Doesn't matter that it has been months that they are in force, me and the other ones not liking them, complained then, and complain now.

My point is that PP/mug (afaik) has always been separated from offences that would result in shootings, and should have remained that way.

And the rule it a bit blurred even "You might shoot" but "You better not", "You have the right to" but "It's better if you reason with them"; just some alibi for happy triggers

Oh and for last, I raise my sword to praise at people like DougRoss.

And, for very last, not being an hypocrite, I promise if I ever get to made+, you people not liking getting PPed will have all right to mug back ;)