It does need to be said, and it does need to be discussed.

The fact that you don't want to challenge conventions, that you don't want to make this thing better, that you don't want leaders to take a stand says all I will ever need to know about the types of people you are.

You can talk to people just coming on to our shores, you can do that, absolutely. You can get them involved, ask questions, converse with them. And you can do all that without sending the same form letter to every single new person who gets off the boat.

What I, and others like Huxley and Canucklehead, are saying is JUST THAT. Get to know someone, talk to them, hold conversations - do ALL of that. Just don't whore them.

I have no desire, nor need to prove myself to you, JerusalemRourke. What I do behind the doors of my HQ is mine, my families and my cities' business. I do not need to come out here in the streets and declare that my family is not allowed to whore members to prove to you that I've told them. You see, the thing at stake for disrespecting/questioning leaders is not only death. It's the fact that your descendants will be looked badly upon and likely end up banned from many cities like several bloodlines already are. I suggest you quit while you're ahead.

You just said Panda needs to get to know you, when you never attempted to get to know the leader you insulted. You're actions differ from your words, and you called out the carbon printed hello (which isnt member whoring) which keeps the new members here, you can't have people reach out to new members and ban member whoring. It doesnt work that way, stop talking.

I suggest many things for this thing of ours, just walk down the road and you will see. I put effort in everything I say here.
Definitely more than some people around here Jerusalem. You are not challenging anything, and neither is Huxely, you're simply stating something that has already been talked about and since not everyone agrees with you, and you have nothing else to back yourself up with, you belittle and insult people.

It's disgusting. 

So, Mr. Panda, you approve of bloodline hunting then?

Who said anything about bloodline hunting? Not the killing of your every generation. Just shunning.

Blaming the descendants for the actions of their ancestor and punishing them sounds like hunting to me.

Sigh, civilians moaning, complaining, and being disrespectful.  

Dear civilians,

How about your rank up to boss and talk like this.  It's so much easier to talk crap like this when you're a civilian who's put in no effort and can't be shot.  

It could also be running your mouth in the streets that gets you and others killed. If your name is tarnished just simply go incognito.

"Blaming the descendants for the actions of their ancestor and punishing them sounds like hunting to me."

What little intelligence I thought you might have had is now gone. Bloodline hunting is the KILLING of several generations of a bloodline. Banning bloodlines from a city is completely different.

How is it different? If, say, I am banned from all the cities that currently have leaders in them, when I turn gangster, I am essentially free mulch as I have no family.

It ends with my death either way, so why is one classified as "hunting" and the other isn't? If ALL my descendants are to be punished, are you not, in fact, *hunting* them in order to make sure they stay banned?

Hmmm.

I refused everyone who approached me when i was a Petty Thief/Civilian. I looked up the Crews and decided which Family was suited best for me and seemed the most interesting to me, so i applied to said Family.

"Member whoring" or whatever you call it isn't a bad thing. In fact without it some of the famous Leaders in mafia history would have never become famous and powerful. However with reputation alone the mobsters don't come to you in most cases. To stay on top of the mafia world you have to find people who are able to maintain your position at the top and are willing put in the required effort. What i am trying to say is, everone has their own way of doing things and that should be equally respected. Afterall no one has the power to decide which Family someone joins. It is up to the approached people to decide whether they join the family or not.

Because, in the art of bloodline hunting, the person has a grudge against you and seeks your family line out, killing them. In banning from cities, it's a hole you've dug yourself into with your own stupidity. Now, kindly stop directing questions at me and go back to stealing purses.

If it was up to me I would not ban you simply because of where you're from. I'd ban you for insulting people and belittling their words just because you don't like something. You're not trying to change anything you're just being an arse. You're criticizing and patronizing. I can tell you this much, even if you meant well this kind of behavior won't get anyone gung-ho about your opinions. If it was up to me, I'd simply ban you for today.

Sadly, it's not, but I don't think that others will look kindly on your opinions either. Do you know why? Because you're not adding anything to the conversation. You say leaders need to lead? Well civilians need to work on getting to the point of leading in the first place.

So start working, or kill yourself. No one here will cry.

Again, Vino, I would like to point out that I am NOT saying "Don't contact new people! That's terrible and you should feel ashamed because you are a whore!"

I am saying that, by all means, talk to new people. Get to know them, tell them about the different families, give them help getting started - but don't send out a mass form letter to every single person that says the same thing. Don't send out invites without first talking to someone. Take the time to get to know someone.

How, honestly, is that so terrible?

Well if you're banning me from your city ad aeternum, I'd have to assume that you do, in fact, hold a grudge against me and want to see my bloodline to suffer.

Bloodline hunting can come about for many reasons, bloodline banning can come about for the same reasons. I fail to see the difference between the two.

Does anyone see how Jerusalem is all of a sudden "what I'm saying isn't so bad, is it?"?

That's because he is forced into a corner and if he cannot get his voice heard and his thoughts implemented he now resorts to setting himself up as a victim. "Oh no, not me, I'm not being manipulative and condescending, I'm just trying to point something out and all you mean people are ganging up on me!"

That, my friends, is psychology. I know it well. 

Jerusalem, you're inquiry was not terrible, but the way in which you presented it and then continued to evolve it was.

You're opinion stopped being considered the moment you took it to a personal level.
How does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot? 

One of the people you called out did nothing wrong you moron, who cares if he says hello the same way to everyone, he offered to get to know you and you threw it in his face in this joke of a topic. You've never been a sponsor or recruiter before and its obvious because you would understand why people use the same way of saying hello. You must be sick and tired of the taste of dirt by now, you've dug yourself a grave in every city with a leader apparently...

More importantly, if you're that low that ppl ban you from their city (WHICH ISNT BLOODLINE HUNTING, EVERY LEADER HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY NO YOU CANT JOIN MY CREW) than go incognito and become a respected member, sometimes that includes holding your tongue so you might as well give up this type of life.

The difference, for me at least, would be that I would not want the kind of person you are present day in my city, in my money, in my family.

If your generations behavior changed, so would my ban. That's how I look at it.

I'm not a Civilian. I'm not running my mouth. I'm not being disrespectful.

I'm stating simple facts based on things I have seen since I got back from boarding school to find my aunt dead at her desk.

Please, Kriminal, show me where I have been disrespectful. I've even made it clear my intent is not to disrespect.

She turns to everyone else and speaks with a deeply felt passion..

This simply comes down to a basic ideal.. Why bother trying to change anything when it's become the accepted way of doing things?

Sadly, this ideal has been present for so many generations that people are afraid of change. Leader after leader says they are against member whoring, yet they allow it within their own families when all they have to do is make a small change. Who is to know what the outcome of a few leaders doing this, or even an entire city, could be. This doesn't have to be the status quo. It can change, if one truly wants to put the effort in and do it. It can't be done in a day, it will take WORK. You know.. Actually DOING something. You have to inspire your crew. You have to teach your crew. You have to actually get to know them enough to know that they deserve that promotion and not just give it to them because it's time.

How many high ranked members are out there that haven't even been taught the simple basics of our society? How many don't know what some of us that have had the luck to be raised in this land of crime know as instinct or passed down knowledge because they didn't have someone to teach them?

How many new faces go comatose because there's nothing to keep them with the land of the living? They get bored, find a box in an alley, fall asleep never to wake up.. When all it takes is someone showing them the way rather than letting them fend for themselves. How hard is it to get to know people and their needs?

I've read journals of my friends and family from back in the Rourke era. I've spent time going through archives of discussions in these very Streets from that era. Not EVERY leader or city fell into line when it became "ok to whore". Some resisted. Some kept with the traditions that they had been raised with. It's over time and lack of initiative that this has become "the norm" and "unchangeable" and a "why should we change it" belief.

It took one man to start this devolution.. But hundreds since to let it slide into the state it is now. Sure, it will take more than one to take the initiative to improve things, but isn't This Thing of Ours and the prospect of new people to these shores LEARNING and BEING TAUGHT by their crewleader/sponsor/fellow members rather than the staff of City Hall worth it? Isn't the prospect of more living people than comatose people or "Zombies" worth it? Isn't the ability to look at your Associate/member and say you actually know them and watched them grow into an upstanding and KNOWLEDGEABLE member of our society worth it? Isn't looking at your roster of criminals and thinking "Wow, we're not just a crew... We're a family." worth it? Isn't that feeling of success and pride when you see someone succeed because of what you taught them worth it? Are these forgotten achievements now?