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Join The Freedom Convoy Started by: Sam_Winchester on Jan 30, '22 01:05

Someone sent me a wonderful image yesterday that truly made me laugh the moment I woke up - 
https://gyazo.com/13f5c02ac6a4c51948de814cb233370f

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As in any protest you have your right and left wing extremist. And that dates way back in history.
The majority of the people are not that way. However people such as yourself Max always love to see the extreme and want to try and point out that it has to be all of them.
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For those who don't know the details about this, I found a great thread on reddit that cites several sources while it breaks down all stupidity at play: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/sj7hbq/whats_going_on_with_ottawa_and_the_freedom_convoy/

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That again Maxine are the left and right wing people you get from every protest with their own agendas that can never be stopped.

 

MLK had people with him during his peaceful protest that were the start of the Black panthers so even dating back a few years to the early 60's, your information although somewhat true it is also miss leading.

For your information there is a Freedom Convoy starting in the U.S. Lets see if the people there can stop the really stupid from rearing their ugly heads. I am betting yours will be a riot in less than a week. Then we can see who are the real radical out to lunch people in the world.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZB36C5BGsk

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Sam, I only have one question.

Why do people such as yourself and the protest leaders refuse to expel or speak out against Nazi's and white supremacists?
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Well I have told you many times That I dont agree or back that kind of behaviour, so why you keep asking is beyond me .... Maybe you can't read.

2nd the freedom convoy has come out and disagreed with those kinds of groups and they have themselves put an end to some of the things they have seen within their rally.

But let me stress again.....the mainstream media does not cover the fact that the truckers are now guarding the Terry Fox and War memorials that a few of these other idiots were trying to deface.

So again, sorry you seem to only watch mainstream news.

Maybe you yourself are a Nazi or racist since you are the one that brings it up all the time, again it is just what I am seeing from your writing. Just like the mainstream news it only covers what they want you to see.

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Nice try. I'm part Jewish.

What an absolutely shit defense. -2/10. I never accused you of being a Nazi. Never even came close to it. It's not a great look when you get that overly defensive here Sam. It looks like your trying too hard to cover something up. Do better.

If you don't agree with their behavior, why even have them around? Not you exactly, but the protest leaders and people who feel like you. All it would take for the Convoy to get legitimate good press is just one Freedom Convoy leader coming out and saying "Kill the Nazi's". Then, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But, they won't. They refuse to. They still allow them to protest with them. They allow them to hang out in their little campfires cooking food and singing their songs. Just why?

Your argument having the Nazi's around was basically "This is our party, they kind of just came in the back door. But, we can't get rid of them because they are actually pretty cool guys". Again, do better. They can be expelled. They can be made not welcome. You and your compatriots just don't want to do it. For what reason? Only God knows.

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So what your telling me is that with all your wisdom your can pick out a hater just by walking past them. You are funny sir.

 

If everyone wears the same clothes and generally looks the same they can be pulled from the crowd LOL

 

As I told you last time The truck drivers and other people there in Ottawa have been removing those that are doing the hate crime type stuff. I seems to me you skipped that part again.

 

I am glad to know that you have the ability to pick out a terrorist by just looking at them. You should work for MI-6 or the Cia or FBI

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Again your performance here is poor.

It is plain as day when they are matching around with Swastika flags and patches on. It's not like you can't find them.

You've shown no proof of them dealing with the extremist elements. Just today there are more pictures and videos of them still there. So, where is your proof?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZB36C5BGsk

 

Watch and listen if you have the attention span

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Why are you getting angry and accusatory? That isn't how healthy debate happens. I haven't insulted you in any such way. Are you getting outmatched and frustrated here?

I'm going to leave this until the next hustle.
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I don't see why, while government steal people money in thousands of different ways, they protest when they do things to protect their health.

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No one is mad DotorBang

And the money stealing is part of the issue in the Canadian politics

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They are simply designed that way so you can buy more gas.

It is not that they can't make them get better mileage it is simply a money issue. Oil companies pay off car manufactures so they don't get good mileage.

I feel the need to chime in here, since this is something that I've spent a lot of time involved with.

Lets get the first thing out of the way, its not an apples to apples comparison.  You can't take the number on the window sticker over the years as golden, it changes.  That number listed on the same exact vehicle in 1958, versus 1975, versus 1984 versus 2008, would all show completely different numbers.

The EPA/NHTSA has changed the tests multiple times, going from a wildly inaccurate representation that everyone drove perfect at at 55mph 55% of the time, and the remaining 45% of the time drove without air conditioning in ideal temperatures in just 2 simple tests.  In modern times we have many additional tests to better mimic real world conditions.

These changes make a difference:
The same exact car in 1983, would have 10% lower city MPG and 22% lower highway ratings in 1984.
Additional tests were added in 2008 to compensate for real world driving, which hones these numbers to be a little more real world accurate.
In fact, the new regulations set for 2025 is a CAFE of 54.5 mpg (which is run on the 1975 test methods) which the EPA/NHTSA said will have an actual window sticker of about 40 mpg equiv.

Let that sink in for a bit, a 1983 brand new vehicle that spits out 20/25 mpg, magically fast forwards in time to 1984, would be labeled as 18/19.5, fast forward to that same brand new 1983 to today would be rated at 14.6/18.3

In 1973, we mandated top speed to be at 55mph.  MPG testing was based around this, we've since changed our gas multiple times (phased out leaded, MTBE, phased in seasonal and RFG formulas and so on)

The ratio of city style to highway style driving has changed from its original 55/45 ratio.  As we further develop, our roads get more congested, more stop and go traffic, more rapid acceleration, more time spent in really inefficient situations.

Our power to weight ratio has consistently increased year after year, our vehicles keep getting more and more power.

The clean air act ushered in a rush to ramp up ethanol, now almost all non top non high octane fuel is E10.  Ethanol kills MPG, but takes less of an environmental toll (a whole other argument)

Our cars are now loaded with things to cut down on the emissions of driving, which happen at the cost of fuel economy.  
Our cars are now loaded with things to improve safety of driving, which happen at the cost of fuel economy.  
Our cars are now loaded with things to improve the comfort of driving, which happen at the cost of fuel economy.  
Our cars are now loaded with things to improve the convenience of driving, which happen at the cost of fuel economy.  
Our cars are now loaded with things to improve the experience of driving, which happen at the cost of fuel economy.  

Think back to the 70s, how many cars had air conditioning?  Nowdays, can you even get one without it outside of special order fleet vehicles?

Think of all the other parasitic drains.  Can you even get a vehicle without power brakes? power steering? air bags? Huge amounts of electric features drawing power that require a march larger alternator which vampires even more power?

Think about all the added new age weight in vehicles.  Sound deadening, vibration dampening, door intrusion beams, the mile(s) of wiring.  None of this existed, there was no computers, sensors, ancillary anything...  

Here are some charts that I stole (source of EPA/NHTSA, you can compile your own charts using their data at the bottom)

https://gyazo.com/3b6c3f496ad440a39306ba800d0c6c4b
HP to Weight Ratio from 1975 to current.
https://gyazo.com/97eb6ae754cb0290c46479d681b38a28
Average HP from 1975 to current.
https://gyazo.com/835b1c1ef04ba3073f552d8594c2e99c
Average Weight from 1975 to current.
https://gyazo.com/567bae6353ed2890494ff077dcab5c54
Average Fuel Economy from 1975 to current.
https://gyazo.com/440ad0233b0cc06fd89bfb0a895556c2
Average 0-60 MPH time from 1975 to current.


Some sources to get your own data from the sources:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml
https://www.epa.gov/compliance-and-fuel-economy-data/data-cars-used-testing-fuel-economy
https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P1013L1O.pdf
https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/explore-automotive-trends-data
https://one.nhtsa.gov/cafe_pic/home/ldreports

So to summarize this...
Since 1975, the average hp to displacement ratio has nearly tripled, the fuel economy has more than doubled, all the while adding more shit to vehicles and raising our ever growing list of standard features year by year while STILL doubling the MPG.

The governments has put enormous pressure on the auto manufacturers to keep improving, and at almost every step the engineers have hit the goals.

After the oil embargo spiked prices, any love between the auto manufacturers and the oil industry was severed.  The auto industries greatest balancing act is being able to out perform their competitors while being able to handle regulatory burden.  Taking bribes from the oil industry by not advancing their tech, and being under the thumb of all the regulatory agencies across the world literally makes zero sense.  The auto industry innovates to stay competitive but also to survive both long and short term.  

FOR EACH OF THESE:
reliable
safe
performance
attractive
comfort
functional
drivability
longevity

GOTTA GIVE UP THESE:
inexpensive to R&D
inexpensive to build
inexpensive to purchase
inexpensive to use
inexpensive to maintain 

 

We could be at 3x rather than 2x the fuel efficiency if we were willing to pay more, lower our ever increasing standards, or drive vehicles more appropriate to our use case.  CAFE standards could be triple digits if *we*, the consumers, allowed it to be.

If you don't, then its a constant battle between the engineers, the accountants, the shareholders and the government.  There really is no room for the oil companies in this dance.
 

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As much as you have some good points Squishy.
I still have another item on that story.

My cousin worked as a mechanic his whole life.
Just when he started his career he worked as the guy that did easy service work on your car. Oil change air filters spark plugs stuff like that.

One day a customer came in for his first service on his new 1970 Malibu.
Car was loaded with AC and a 350ci engine with 4 barrel carb.

Service went good and the customer was very happy with his car. He told my cousin that he was getting great gas mileage with it compared to his old Ford pick-up.

Next service: The car needed a new air filter (old farmer lived on a dirt road)
My cousin looked for over an hour for a new air filter but could not find one.
He questioned all the parts people and they couldn't find one either.

They called on the part to the manufacturer because they could not even cross reference the air filter from the carburetor. The parts did not exist at the dealership level.

Turns out it was an experimental carb and they were told to send it back and they were to swap out the carb for a new one and not to charge the customer.

A week later the farmer came back in the shop bitchin that they screwed with his car.
So the manager told him what went down.
So he was getting about 45 mpg with the experimental carb.
17 to 20 mpg with a normal carb.

So I have a hard time believing that the oil and car companies are not in bed with each other even to this day. As I have said in this thread before.
People will not sell you a cure or something that won't wear out because there is no money in it.
Repeat customer is where the money is.

Just like my S10 is a great phone and it takes wonderful photos. It is no longer made....did it need to be discontinued...NO... sell them a new phone and make the company more money.

And as a side note that farmer never bought another Chevy product.
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Hello, Sam_Winchester. Boy, I sure heard a bunch about you. See, I was a good friend of your uncle's. We were in that Chevy garage pit of hell together over five years. Hopefully, you’ll never have to experience this yourself, but when two men are in a situation like me and your uncle were, for as long as we were, you take on certain responsibilities of the other. If it had been me who had not made it, uncle Winchester would be talking right now to my son Jim. But the way it turned out is I’m talking to you, Sam. I got something for you.

This carburettor I got here was first purchased by your great-grandfather during the first World War. It was bought in a little general store in Knoxville, Tennessee. Made by the first company to ever make state-of-the-art carburettors. Up till then people just used normal ones. It was bought by private Doughboy Winchester on the day he set sail for Paris. It was your great-grandfather’s carburettor and he drove it every day he was in that war. When he had done his duty, he went home to your great-grandmother, took the carburettor out, put it an old coffee can, and in that can it stayed until your granddad Dane Winchester was called upon by his country to go overseas and fight the Germans once again. This time they called it World War II. 

The way your uncle looked at it, this carburettor was your birthright. He'd be damned if 4 men in suits were gonna put their greasy hands on his boy's birthright, so he hid it, in the one place he knew he could hide something: his ass. Five long years, he held this carburettor up his ass. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the carburettor. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years of Big Auto threats, I went home to my family. And now, little man, I give this carburettor to you.

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To echo what Claudius said, Sam_Winchester, it does seem like your family have been deeply involved in government automotive innovation suppression.  I must ask you, though, have you ever considered that your uncle and cousin are somehow pushing a nefarious agenda themselves?

But I was just about convinced about your point of view here:

"Just like my S10 is a great phone and it takes wonderful photos. It is no longer made....did it need to be discontinued...NO... sell them a new phone and make the company more money."

When I suddenly realised something...

You claim that automotive innovation suppression was prosecuted by the government and, to back up your claim, cite Samsung's continuing (presumably non-suppressed) innovation as proof.  

But here's the thing, and it relates back to Squishy's well-thought out and researched points: increasing fuel economy frees up vehicle manufacturers to do other things to make cars more attractive to purchasers; to give a Ford the edge or a Hyundai.

To further challenge your point, the aviation industry uses massive amounts of fuel.  Innovation led to planes being lighter, and able to carry more passengers than ever before.  Fuel economy, in terms of freight or passengers in transit, has increased, but so, too, has fuel consuption.

How do you square that off?

One final thought: here in the UK, petrol cares are being phased out.  I drive a hybrid.  I'm sure electric vehicles will become more and more popular in America.

Why weren't these inventions suppressed?  

Tesla is headquartered in California, USA.  How did Elon Musk manage to get past the sinister suppressive government? 

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Brendan O'Neill: LOL
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Here is something for another reason why the government in Canada needs to be replaced.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egbXE18omy0

 

Trudeau himself basically in-sighted the riots himself on this one.

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