Althalus, you make some ... points.  Though lacking in credability, they might make sense if almost anyone else said them.  Kee was out and proud of what he did.  Your father slunk around in the shadows, wondering if anyone saw, fearful of retribution.  You are an ineffective, disgruntled bloodline hunter; nothing more and nothing less. 

Have a pleasant day.

My father was not a bloodline hunter at all, in fact it was only after he took that shot that he found out the line he was shooting at.

But well, you know whatever helps you sleep at night.

I sleep fine.  And you're the son of a failed rogue.

Failed rogue? why yes I suppose I am.

Your point?

(OOC: third time I've written this reply and had it deleted so I'm going to be loads more brief)

Althalus, you and I disagree pretty fundamentally on how difficult it would be to hide your intentions and your identity, so I'll leave that point there, it's going nowhere.

We now live in a world where the cities need more members in order to be able to grow, the onus is now on crews to go out and recruit associates more than ever. Because of this, an associate screening process is just a pipe dream. I agree that a Made Man promotion should mean something, I do. And I agree that there should be consequences to speaking out in the streets in some cases, albeit not the consequences we've seen in recent years. I just don't think this equates to death on the level that you and others have proposed in this discussion; murder should always be the last resort because blood is bad for business.

A lot of blood is yes bad for business, but a little is good for the soul.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this Tristan, we all have our own thoughts about how somethings should be handled.

Yes cities need members to grow, but the question is what direction do they want to grow? It should always be quality over quantity. If and this is a big if, if I was a crew leader I would be more happy with a small crew that I knew and trusted than 10 I trusted and 40 cash-cows to make money for me.

Its Ok YouAreHere, I already know the bloodline this person relates to.

"Oh and if Kee;s blood is who we think it is...
When your blood was tied to the city of NY, you city hosted MANY of Clown's family members bloodlines, myself included. So you're a bit of a hypocrite just to top it off.
I'm not sure I follow the logic of these statements. Would you be so kind as to clarify for me? You two say that you know who this person is. Surely this person is a threat that should be watched closely by all of our profit-seeking ventures. Good businessmen manage risk, after all. I would expect that all the employers in all the cities have an interest in knowing who they might be hiring. If you know who this person is, wouldn't it be better to spill the name so that these fair cities' sponsors can at least make a fully informed decision before extending an invitation to such an individual?

The decision to employ another worker is a big one of the small businessman. Having a poor worker on the payroll can sink a business. I know I, for one, keep the absolute highest standards when I decide who to employ. In the spirit of cooperation, isn't it better to share this information with other organizations so we can all profit together?

Oh Father_TeQ, you out of all people should keep your mouth shut. How many times have your bloodline rogued from Alabama's GF crew and failed miserably, most of the time you couldn't even get a single kill out, now that's quite lame in my book.

We don't see Alabama taking any security measures against you, he always opens his arms for you without any problem, even though the entire world knows you are always a problem because you just can't hold yourself, you are just a fuck up. Sooner or later, you will only think of yourself.

Weren't you the guy that requested a self ban recently because you needed to make a stand against the leaders who were bloodline hunting people? Now look at yourself, you are nothing but a hypocrite.

I'm not who you think I am (kee), my bloodline is not the bloodline you have been referring to, so who's friends are you going to kill, who exactly are you going to bloodline hunt? You will never know who I am, when I want to do something I do it right.

So keep on feeding your paranoia, you are making this a lot more entertaining for me. See you soon.

Well folks, I apologize for that. It seems one of my staffers got my instructions wrong and released the notes for my speech as a press release instead of letting me come out here and speak them. I hope you all understand my position on the issue now, in any case.

I'm HermanCain, and I approve this message. Hop on board the Cain Train today!

Orion listens in and scratches his head.

All this talk about Alabama being called a man! Blasphemy!

To me, it seems as though this discussion has changed from one about a rogue, and his decision to target EvilClown's family for reasons that he didn't really express very clearly, to a debate about the sanctity of Made Man.  I can't help but feel as though some of you are not recognizing the most important evidence we have here. 

No family helped or was involved in anything. No one promoted my father either. My father took the wiseguy promotion just like your member Ancalagon did last night. My father used his own money and credits to fly around, and used his own gun to shoot your guys and used his only pro wacker to pro wack him.

Per Kee's son, Bar, Kee was not promoted by anyone.  No one extended him the trust that a Made Man requires. 

The Gods decreed that this was not needed when they said the following

In a city that is not controlled by a Godfather, an unsponsored user is able to purchase an HQ providing he has all the minimum requirements for Mademan, thus receiving the promotion at the same time.

The debate about how a person should earn the rank of Made Man, does not belong in this conversation about a wise guy's choice to attack Detroit. 

Eve that is the beauty of debate and discussion, given enough input they grow and evolve. I chose to get involved in what I felt I could talk about. Yes it could have been taken to another street corner but is that really necessary, have those of us who took a different tangent caused any trouble or taken away from the main conversation? No it's been developed into something else and rather than us all taking up resident on another street corner we decided to stay here.


However I can see your point, but then what are we to do, keep going round in circles and beat it to death?

I believe that evidence, was in fact, noted Eve, hence the movement to further discussions about made men, vouching, CP etc.

Although the topic is evolving, it is still in relation to the goings on and slaying of Evil Clowns members.

2 more missed the point.  A referral system wouldn't do anything in this case. 

Any unsponsored mobster that is in a city not controlled by a Godfather who has only the requirements for Mademan, is able to buy an HQ and promote himself.  In this scenario no one authed him, and no one promoted him to Mademan.  So bringing back a referral system and even making it for wiseguys still wouldn't work.  You'll just have to kill everyone you can't vouch for.  Surely we won't discuss that any further....

Not sure if your indicating that I am one of those that missed the point Mikey?

I certainly haven't and am fully aware of the ranking requirements within this thing of ours, including wiseguys and Godfather-less cities.

I was merely pointing out that the comments and discussion still had relevance to the original speech.

I hear ya.  I guess what's more important is that in this discussion a referral system is a moot point.  One would have to prevent someone from even gaining the appropriate experience/lifespan.  Which can't and won't happen. 

Of course it can happen Mikey. If you do not have two references by the time you hit Wise Guy then you get demoted back to Earner.

Why is that so hard for anyone to understand?

I would also like to say I did not miss the point, the factors that led to a mademan in a godfatherless city are well known since their introduction.

I however, had chosen to comment on other things that were being discussed here. As I felt it was something I could talk about and saw no need to start a separate discussion.

You can't do that for the same reason you can't ban entire bloodlines from the entire country.  People will quit or revolt.  In my opinion anyway.

I still want to know who the dastardly family is that caused this hubbub. If someone has that information please forward it to my campaign. I'll be sure to return any and all campaign contributions received by such individuals.

Let me say that again to be quite clear: The Cain Train does not support corruption, murder, or other lawless activities in any form. My campaign will not accept, and if discovered will return, any campaign contributions from those found to be engaging in such practices. If you have information regarding the family of this rogue please forward it to my campaign headquarters or provide details here so that we can take proper remedial actions!