Ah, the age-old classic "you're just a mere civilian".

Congratulations, well noticed... you're smarter than the average bear by looking me up in the phone book.

We're not all about sunshine and roses you ignorant, naive fool. We are the mob, we don't hold hands and skip through flowery meadows.

Personally, I don't see why anyone would listen to someone who refers to the deadly life of crime, extortion and murder we lead as... 'a game'.

In another speech, Ziva expressed her thoughts on this initiative - a speech I have yet to get around to responding to, as yet. To put things mildly, she is not a fan; horrific was a word that I believe was used at length! Regardless of the opposition it's impossible not to respect her - forthright views are put across in a no nonsense manner, and they are put across in a way that is fully backed up at every juncture.

Unlike this...nonsense from TeQ. This is hardly a democracy, I think. Would you like me to reel off the number of Godfathers and their Captains who died at the hands of the current regime to open up space for something like this? The obits hardly speak of a democratic approach. Or perhaps I could point out the clear logical fallacy in your argument. Democratic? Hardly. This is happening because we want it to happen; perhaps you disagree with it. Such is life, I feel bad for you son. I've got 99 problems but an auth ain't one.

Or, perhaps, I could point to the 'old' country; are you aware of how close and deep the ties between politics and mafia run? Presidents have risen and fallen thanks to the influence of the mob, as have Mayors, judiciaries, and even Kings back in Italy before the place was unified. You speak of 'politician' like creatures as if this is something new. New to you, perhaps, but it's always been part of this world.

Since, according to the response you offered Fedelta, you apparently don't want to be dismissed as a mere civilian, perhaps you won't mind my judging you on the merits of your forebears? If so, I could point to the train-wreck of poor decision making your last bold ancestor was guilty of, voluntarily leaving several members of his crew sponsorless and vulnerable. That being the case, you'll forgive me for not taking your critique of decision making skills as seriously as you'd like.

And horrendous Cantona, don't be forgetting horrendous now! I'm quite a fan of my dramatic adjectives!

Which leads me to add, that I am somewhat despondent over this!

Ok, instead of this 'nonsense', I'll sit here and pick your reply apart instead, Cantona.

Ziva's speech... you mean the one you weren't getting around to posting in until I brought this to your attention here (obviously you're going to now). Ziva's poster has been up for over 36 hours, yet you replied to me within the hour! Let's not dwell on this matter as I don't really want it to detract from my perfectly valid point that this is a monstrous sham.

WOOOOO! YOU SHOT SOME PEOPLE! WOOOOO! You did something a bajillion other bolds/GF's/powers that be have done in the past and will in the future. We can all come to decisions easily when it's a matter of life and death, our hands are forced, therefore we HAVE to make a decision.

Now that the dust has settled, we see this abhorrent circus act (where you continue to cheapen and degrade the value of being bold), that you and your fellow con men are pushing on our world as 'decisive actions'. Don't make my arse hair's laugh. You're leaving it up to a bunch of 'muppets' who you don't trust enough to auth yourselves so you're looking for someone else (the general public) to make the bad decision for you. Then you can sit back and say...

OH WELL WE TRIED!

Are voting systems suddenly not democratic? Or am I just totally missing what you're getting at there?

Also... the train wreck of a decision that left absolutely ZERO unsponsored's? You mean that one? (if you paid attention, you would've noticed that when I died, all my members kept their sponsor... me.)

Oh oh oh wait... maybe you mean the ones who died after my ancestors name was wiped from the history books? Well... if they were still 'unsponsored' by the time my ancestor's named was wiped from the records (whenever the database deletes old accounts) then they were fucking INACTIVE and not worth a piss. No time for time wasters.

Your reading comprehension is as impressive as your skills of debate. That is to say, not very impressive at all. The speech I referred to where Ziva made her thoughts known on this initiative is not, amazingly, the one in which she singularly talks about the role of a Right Hand Man but rather the one in which she discusses what would make a good auth. The contribution she made about four hours ago. Do keep up.

The reason, incidentally, I haven't revisited that speech yet is simply that the points raised there, not just by Ziva but by all involved, were well considered and thoughtful; they deserve the respect of having time devoted to them by anyone replying there - as opposed to the 5 or 10 minutes necessary to humour this petulant drivel.

Voting systems, inherently, are not democratic. They are democratic if they exist, and have to exist because the will of the people. Look toward the Declaration of Independence for affirmation of this; or the French revolution that created my own homeland as I know it. Does this voting system we have here exist because it has to, that we the Leaders must appease you the people because if not, we would fear a violent and bloody uprising? I think not. It exists simply because it can; simply because we make it so. One district adopting a democratic vehicle, purely at the whim of the Godfathers, does not constitute a wholesale shift to democracy across the whole of our way of lifestyle - and if you cannot understand this then you're a fool.

As an aside, I notice that despite your claim of 'picking my reply apart', you have not done so. There is no rebuttal of my assertions that the 'old country' is famous for its political links with the legal ruling classes of Italy, the States and even Cuba. If you like, I could go further and speak to you at length of the Mafia Commission on the US' east coast? Or perhaps the Chicago structure following the death of Capone in which senior figures elected a 'lightning rod' figurehead? Or perhaps I could draw reference to the Crimine meetings held yearly by the Calabrian Mafia, in which a new leader was literally elected for the coming year? We model ourselves on the old country; and there is demonstrably precedent for this activity.

You are arguing that that we are doing is against some charming and quaint ideal of what 'Mafia' is, but unfortunately it is an ideal that seems to exist only inside your head.

You split hairs and tell me that those members under your forebear were sponsored at the time of the death. By a dead guy. Fabulous. Ol' Grandpappy really excelled in his job as a Leader there eh? The fact that you have the gall to suggest that it's us who cheapen the bold suit when your forebear offed himself in juvenile protestation at an act of City Hall is frankly insulting.

Lastly, I'm not usually one to pick hairs like this but if you're going to berate one of my members for using phrases like 'life's a game', it might be best to avoid throwing statements like 'when I died' around.

Are voting systems suddenly not democratic? Or am I just totally missing what you're getting at there?

Now that the dust has settled, we see this abhorrent circus act (where you continue to cheapen and degrade the value of being bold), that you and your fellow con men are pushing on our world as 'decisive actions

You are clearly intentionally missing the point.

The voting itself is perhaps democratic, however the fact that the contest is being pushed onto the public clearly isn't. So, by that logic they are not operating a democracy and are indeed using their position to try out this little venture. It's new, give it a chance. I really don't see the harm in allowing things to play out and bitch and moan later if it turns out to be a big pile of shit. Then again, the TeQ bloodline aren't exactly famous for their patience and ability to think before they speak. Still, at the very least you offer an honest opinion and that in this day is something that isn't so common, even if you do try and be the bad guy all the time to simply spark a fight.

Your reading comprehension is as impressive as your skills of debate. That is to say, not very impressive at all. The speech I referred to where Ziva made her thoughts known on this initiative is not, amazingly, the one in which she singularly talks about the role of a Right Hand Man but rather the one in which she discusses what would make a good auth. The contribution she made about four hours ago. Do keep up.

From a guy who has been going off topic and bringing up unrelated personal matters, that's a bold statement calling out his ability debate unless you consider just actively avoiding debating the primary topic quality debating. You may choose to discredit TeQ's opinions because you don't like him, but when you do so you encourage others who would've simply ignored this puke stain of an idea to speak up as well. The more you toss insults around without attacking the point that letting the public vote isn't really leading. And telling those voted in they can't cause "unnecessary bloodshed" or deviate from their original promises sounds like a set up to bring stooges in as a distraction and shoot them on first reason.

Voting systems, inherently, are not democratic. They are democratic if they exist, and have to exist because the will of the people. Look toward the Declaration of Independence for affirmation of this; or the French revolution that created my own homeland as I know it. Does this voting system we have here exist because it has to, that we the Leaders must appease you the people because if not, we would fear a violent and bloody uprising? I think not. It exists simply because it can; simply because we make it so. One district adopting a democratic vehicle, purely at the whim of the Godfathers, does not constitute a wholesale shift to democracy across the whole of our way of lifestyle - and if you cannot understand this then you're a fool.

This is the mafia, the Declaration of Independence also says we shouldn't have to deal with tyranny and should take up arms against it... so if I'm really supposed to be dead set on following its principals in everything I ever do I guess I should shoot at JackRyan. This "competition" is a voting system hinting at Democracy in one sect of the country in a system where Democracy simply can't exist from its lack of decisiveness that's required to survive and thrive in our world.

As an aside, I notice that despite your claim of 'picking my reply apart', you have not done so. There is no rebuttal of my assertions that the 'old country' is famous for its political links with the legal ruling classes of Italy, the States and even Cuba. If you like, I could go further and speak to you at length of the Mafia Commission on the US' east coast? Or perhaps the Chicago structure following the death of Capone in which senior figures elected a 'lightning rod' figurehead? Or perhaps I could draw reference to the Crimine meetings held yearly by the Calabrian Mafia, in which a new leader was literally elected for the coming year? We model ourselves on the old country; and there is demonstrably precedent for this activity.

Again, more hints at people who have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Stick to the main topic, I don't feel like reading into any of this, but I'm sure if I did I could find a counter-point from another point in time through man's history that would still be irrelevant to the point being made.

You are arguing that that we are doing is against some charming and quaint ideal of what 'Mafia' is, but unfortunately it is an ideal that seems to exist only inside your head.

I happen to share his opinion that bloodshed, one minded systems of ruling for decisiveness, and picking a leader on merit not popularity (can't believe I have to mention that) are pretty damn standard in our ways. If you'd like to suggest otherwise then you're a hypocrite as you weren't voted into your position by the populous, I could probably go find an old WS from family logs of you killing someone that isn't an NPC or IA and claim that it was unnecessary for any reason in particular, and though I can't necessarily prove you don't use democracy in your own district... I will still guarantee you don't and no one else does.

You split hairs and tell me that those members under your forebear were sponsored at the time of the death. By a dead guy. Fabulous. Ol' Grandpappy really excelled in his job as a Leader there eh? The fact that you have the gall to suggest that it's us who cheapen the bold suit when your forebear offed himself in juvenile protestation at an act of City Hall is frankly insulting.

You brought the topic up, so it's your responsibility to have said information. Who died because of this that wasn't inactive? Name names because Crew Leaders have stepped down before his ancestor did and they will again in the future and it seems like a much better decision to step down and leave our shores than risk his members by butting heads with the gods while in that position. That's not splitting hairs, that's a point that makes your initial point to attack the fact he risked his members irrelevant.

And being bold suited means leading in my eyes, so as a leader you should expect criticisms for every decision made... especially one such as this that clearly shows you just didn't know who to give the district to and you didn't want a real competition so you propped up this monstrosity to keep people quiet about an empty district.

Now that those nasty personal bits have been responded to, let me ask if you really think a group mentality is the best way to pick a leader. Not only that but it's coupled with a "no unnecessary bloodshed" clause and "you can't go back on your promises" clause. Those clauses seem to be a rip cord attached to this already ugly system so that the leaders voted there will now be forced to work with someone they might not be able to work with and keep promises to unknown lengths in an ever changing system of this thing of ours. This sounds like a sideshow that the old competitions used to be, minus the part where people involved are allowed to possibly succeed in any way, shape or form by design. My honest suggestion is to go back to the drawing board or use the old LV system that produced PoisonousJelly and DeadlySin as a model and tweek it to fit any changes that have happened since it was implemented because I know that most of those who participated in that side show enjoyed it and the survivors not only went on to become proper CLs and GFs, but one went on to have a massively long run at the top so clearly it leaves room for those participating to use the opportunity to thrive in our world.

The one thing I'd like ppl considering this to read is this, there are vague clauses added to remove you if you do some of the basic actions expected of a CL. This means they've tied your hands before you've even started and therefor there is little to no hope of being actually allowed to become a CL in anything more than title... and technically a CL probably isn't what you're aiming for.

Truth be told I've not paid attention to most of the responses since Cantona responded to my queries and worries regarding Staten Island. But you've honestly hit the nail on the head in my eyes with your last sentence WhereWasI. Also gauging from Godfather Cantonas rather "politicians response" to my questions. Nothing here suggests to me that districts won't get involved if their man dies at Staten Island, resulting in your untimely death.

So it's basically a rather public authing of a pre-chosen person, unfortunately some districts more then others have the fire power to back their man and ensure nothing happens to him. At least that's the way I see it. 

• Once voting is closed, the top X placed candidates will be confirmed for auth in Staten Island. We already know exactly how many individuals we are going to auth, we are choosing not to announce this until polling is closed to keep the voting ultra exciting!
• Once the elected Leaders are up and running in Staten Island, they will be expected to reach a consensus on who, if anyone, will be the de facto leader of the district.
• At this point, the district will be considered a district like any other - unnecessary bloodshed or violence will be treated in the same way as it would anywhere; and Staten Island will be held to the same standards as the rest of 'our thing'.
• The exception to this is that, in the event of a Leader's actual performance varying greatly from the message they put across in their election campaign, steps may be taken by the Godfather Council to address this.

 This means they've tied your hands before you've even started and therefor there is little to no hope of being actually allowed to become a CL in anything more than title... and technically a CL probably isn't what you're aiming for.

It really doesn't though, does it?

You speak so positively of the Las Vegas one as though it were a million miles from this. It wasn't. The contest there had your hands tied so much more than this one does, the only real reason the likes of PJ and DeadlySin survived were because of an anomaly. A man that was able to set up there with Insane protection that enabled him to actually bring some peace to the whole contest, things would have been much different if it weren't for that as it allowed people like PJ to build before having to worry about being taken down, DeadlySin surpassed anything anyone ever could hope to achieve from entering into that contest, especially given he only did so when his own leader was removed, I would be amazed if anyone was able to achieve that level again from ANY contest.

I honestly have read this proposal a few times now and really don't see why there are people with their proverbial knickers in a twist. Why can't people simply participate and see how it goes instead of branding it a "nonsense" etc.

The negativity has got me quite disappointed actually and part of me feels like signing up just to show that someone can make it.. but then I'm just Marshall Mathers, just a regular guy nobody ever gave a fuck about me, so chances are I wouldn't receive the required number of votes to actually make it.

I have journals of one of my ancestors who was there for Las Vegas and the only ways they tied your hands for two legitimate reasons. One was to prevent you from getting a huge start over others by being older, having a CL buy you BGs, or other forms of receiving illegitimate outside help (at least without being forced to hide it) to keep competitors close and the fights entertaining. The other rules were set up to prevent the LV leaders from being capable of doing much if any damage to the outside cities while the competition was active. The rules told you what you could fight with, but gave you the option to fight for your rights to the top or to fight to remove someone who didn't have your best interests in mind.

They didn't come out as an anomaly, Animal and the muppets were already miles ahead of everyone else and going to end the competition when an unexpected Wack Back killed him. Then when his right hand crossdresser took over, Betsy_Poke also died of an unpredictable Wack Back. The fights afterwards were to establish who was in charge, but at that point in time the accounts that survived the LV rules for that long were far too strong for anyone new to bump them off the top and someone was more than likely going to come out within the next month or two, as those two did.

The insanely well protected status was held by multiple leaders towards the end as people struggled to end the fighting and properly establish a city. The peace came from a group collectively working together, preventing any new contenders and working towards developing, which is what was in each of their best self-interests by the end of the competition and will happen every time you let one of those experiment cities fully play out.

The point of the contest was to work to gain control of a city through unusual means, if you know how to run a city and don't immediately get yourself shot after winning the competition you're already on course to be one that makes at least a good run and is remembered well.

People won't participate without incentive, and anyone who joins is joining to be a CL that doesn't use his gun, doesn't make decisions (simply vote for who will make them), and has to hold promises made for an unknown amount of time... and in my book just wants the bold letters and not the meaning behind having them.

And as for the just Marshal Mathers part, say what you will but my guess is that despite your words you either plan to join or you see what I'm getting at and just wanna get brownie points with Mr. Cantona.

Brownie points?

Now you're just clutching at straws. Mr Cantona has presented this idea to us, but don't throw all the credit to France. From what I heard in his speech this has been decided by a collective, why is it you persist on aiming all things negative towards Mr Cantona?

And you say people won't participate without incentive, why is that? Isn't being a Leader an incentive? Surely pulling on that bold suit and managing to influence those under you is something that many of us wish to do? Again you come out with sweeping negative statements about how things will be, when neither you nor I could possibly know what awaits the victors of this vote.

You sit that are belittle the contest when instead you should perhaps allow it to have a chance to actually play out and then you pour scorn over how shit it was. (Also, I might add at that point you can point any and all negativity towards France)

Mr. Cantona is the loan member of said committee out here defending it. That likely means this is his personal idea. Even if not, the only obvious brownie points to be had would be with him because he is the only one defending it.

Stating that you nor I could know the outcomes is simply admitting you won't try to understand what will likely happen. They're not real leaders if they are no threat of killing anyone and rising to power, don't make decisions (they vote instead), and those unnecessary burdens from those clauses combined will probably confuse those who don't see this as not really leading into thinking that's all being a leader has to offer.

If you're calling me French with that last part, idc. I've actually gotten comments to stop making fun of the french in the past because of my long standing jokes with the frenchie who thinks he's a lion. If you're asking me to direct my disgust at France, then you're the one clutching at straws because the implications of a RHM putting this down vs TeQ actually means something to some people (not me, never understood why any moron goes with the person with title or rank over the guy making logical sense) and I really do think this is a stupid idea and a waste of a district that's allowed to see the light of day from pure apathy.

Currently, I am developing my campaign thread which will be posted shortly. I'm looking forward to the upcoming events over the next few days which should prove to be exciting for everyone. Additionally, I plan on reaching out to various characters specifically to introduce myself, and present my campaign platform to victory. I encourage people with questions to message me as my door is always open as I look to prove myself as an effective communicator. Furthermore, I appreciate those who've stated their support for my campaign as I am committed to bringing a group of friends together in Staten Island. If I'm given the opportunity of authorization in Staten Island I promise to do my utmost to generate exciting gameplay for my crew, and provide a refreshing style of leadership that focuses on the importance on developing relationships with all of my crew members. Moreover, my applied leadership style follows the concept that you must give respect in-order to earn respect, and more importantly that as a crew leader it's your responsibility to ensure that all of your crew member are taken care of by providing mentorships, financial support / incentives, and other aspects that are necessary to the long-term development of crew members whatever the costs as I treat my crew as my own family. Stay tuned for my announcement of my finalized campaign thread. Much appreciated! 

*looks around as a tumbleweed rolls by*

Did you make this 'Commission' up Cantona? Or have you aligned yourself with a bunch of yes men? I see none of them defending this god awful idea, therefore as WWI mentioned... this must be an idea you have pushed onto others.

Anyone already signed up to this debacle, you're not going to be a crewleader. You're going to be a sham. A sham that won a popularity contest in the mob... congrats? yay!

*spit*

I get why some people would go for this 'opportunity' (I use that term VERY loosely), but there are only 2 reasons for anyone to go for it...

...stupidity or naivety.

Just wanting to throw it out here but since when did we always pick leaders on merits over popularity???

Whooooop! Such h8. Zomg such meansieness. Plis show love?

Ok, I realize that in a decision as divisive as this one.... a certain amount of meanness is bound to be exhibited. Figure I might as well plant a flag and defend it. 

I am not a great fan of this contest but definitely not for the reasons that most of the people have stated. I believe Knockaert summed up the major problem most people have with his one liner

Just wanting to throw it out here but since when did we always pick leaders on merits over popularity???

Now..here is my problem.. Why the fuck does it have to be a popularity contest? Is this not like declaring that your thought process is going to be something along the lines 'Oh, he's a friend, I'll vote for him. 1 vote down. Oh, she sends me <3s every other day, VOTE! 2 down...and this guy has a funnae name...all votes gone' Why do you have to admit to being fucking morons who are incapable of making an actual decision based on your observations? Why can't your thought process be something like this: 'Well, this person seems to be capable of speaking his/her mind and from what I gather he/she seems to be someone who would be capable of leading. So, I'll vote for them.' 

This so-called 'contest' is...at it's very core..without all the gift wrapping and the restrictions..a chance for every single one of us to actually influence an auth. Sure, only a small amount of power is given to your vote...but it's more than nothing? Well, leave that up to you.

If you are someone of this opinion...you are admitting to being an idiot who will back people who while being incompetent are also BFFS with yo fo laif.

Moving onto my problem(s) with this so-called contest.

First off, I feel that the clauses that have been inserted into it are too intentionally vague...what exactly is unnecessary bloodshed? Is there a legit definition for that? I am of the opinion that if someone with the letter 'a' in their name is shot it's unnecessary.. is that going to be the definition for it? Does the definition keep changing? Also, who are you...a person with no contact with a particular Family to judge if a crew leader is not qualified for the job if he has acquired this post by a method that you approved and in the paraphrased words of Godfather Cantona...made into existence.

I have no problem with a Godfather coming out and saying 'Here...this district..populate it...I will shoot you if I don't like you' Why the fuck do you find the need to dress it up? This is not a banking firm with people going 'Financial investments are subject to market risks' in a very fast voice... this is the mafia. We make money from prostitution, gambling,murder..so on and so forth... Do we really need to word a 'contract' the essence of which can be expressed with a single sentence? 

Secondly... and my major problem with this is quite simple.... We have near 190 men and women who do not run a crew...men and women who have fought for you, earned for you,bled for you... why would you open up a district to 'voting' when you could just make the day of at least one of them and give them a HQ. I am sure quite a few of that 190 men and women would be more than happy to accept it. The first experiment(in my memory at least) involved people given permission from different city heads to move to a new city and then succeed in any way they saw fit... the people were working with others they did not know... it did descend to bloodshed BUT every single one of the people who went there had earned the trust of his/her city head and was selected as someone the city head chose to send out. Godfathers have been given an immense power....giving someone the chance to start a Family. Why would you throw that away? or maybe this is just a very well thought out plan to make sure the public think they actually play some sort of a role in influencing the world? Guess we'll find out. 

During one of her runs, Blaise noticed a big commotion coming from a speakeasy down the block from where she was standing. She wanted to go and see what it was all about, but unfortunately she had to wait for someone. She asked one of her bodyguards to see what was happening. The guard went, and even though he wasn't allowed to enter past the main entrance area, he obtained enough information to tell Blaise.

"I've got to go there..if this idiot will ever come. You know what? I'm moving to the next location - let him wait for me for a change."

When she came back to the area, she stepped inside the speakeasy, and after listening for a while, spoke up.

"I'm not that much of a gambler, so I'm glad that I'm not a part of this contest. With so many new auths and people re-locating to different districts and cities, I'm not surprised that this sort of event is taking place. I think  these new leaders would need to think quickly on their feet, make good connections, and have a bit of luck on their side if they want to succeed.

To be fair Cantona - when you and the late Toberius set up in West Side, both of you were able to obtain the Godfather rank easily. As I see it now, there is only your family in West Side, and no outsiders. Comparing that to several auths in the same district with no Godfather, and being closely watched is not the same scenario at all.

A popularity contest? Sure, people will vote who they would like to see set up in Staten Island, but it will take more than a few votes for these leaders to come out on top. Also, the potentials are required to get permission from their leader to participate. If the leader didn't trust their capabilities, or didn't think the contest would suit them, I doubt they would be able to join. I don't think it's a sham at all...perhaps if as soon as the leaders set up shop all but one is killed, you could call it that, yes."

Since so many people want me to join the running. I still will not. However, I will open my doors to being hired as a Campaign Manager.

This obviously comes with a cost, but I mean come on, wouldn't you do whatever it takes to get voted in?

If you would like me to be your campaign manager, please contact me in private.

Gracias.

Ok, im not sure if it's somewhere in the forum but lemme ask, whos paying for their Fortifications or other costs? Someone will win but will they have the 46 millions to even buy the entire HQ?