Fips had run into a discussion earlier that week. Something about whether or not to leave a sinking ship. He had pitched in, but afterwards, a simple question regarding loyalty had become stuck in his mind. He had been thinking about it since, so he finally decided to take it to the streets.
He stood in the middle of the streets, when he said;

"Who are you loyal to?"

A few people turned to hear him out. Others ignored him and kept walking.

"Let me explain. These days, it's hard to find a leader who isn't loyal to his district. The districts stick together, protect each other. It makes sense. Usually, it was the Godfather of the district who gave the rest of the leaders in the district permission to lead in the first place. So of course, said Godfather chose someone he or she could trust. Often, entire cities even stick together. I guess that too makes sense, as there may be a Godfather Chairman, a Godfather above the rest of the Godfathers, to lead the entire city."

Fips pauses.

"Every once in a while, a conflict has to arise within a district. A leader and his Godfather disagrees, for example. The two stand against eachother. Who are the leader's members supposed to be loyal to?"

"There are plenty reasons for a Made Man of a family to be more loyal to his leader, than to his Godfather. Usually, he would have a stronger personal bond with the leader. He has worked directly for the leader, not for the Godfather. And after all, it was the leader, to whom he swore loyalty, when he was promoted to Made Man."

"In theory however, should his loyalty instead lie with his Godfather, who is the head of his district?"

"That is my question to you. Where should a Made Man's loyalty lie? With his leader, or with his Godfather?"

My sole allegiance is to the Sith Empire. 

"Blackbeard, in some situations, the reason of the conflict doesn't really concern the member. Just like not every Made Man knows why they're attacking another crew during a war, besides from the fact they were told to do so."

"If you were in a family, and your leader told you to help him take out the Godfather, would you?"

"Or it could be the other way around. The Godfather tries to kill your leader, but fails. Your leader now wants you to strike back at your Godfather. Would you help him?"

"The reason why they are going against each other doesn't really matter. It's a hypothetical question. Is your loyalty stronger to your leader, than to your Godfather? Would you follow the orders of your leaders, or those of your Godfather, if you were given different ones?"

Greeting his friend with a firm embrace, Louis smile and finishes off his smoke. The cigarette ash burst into blazing embers as it struck the sidewalk, however quickly faded and became just another dead stub that littered the path.

"This is certainly something that peaks my interest, paisano.

"History has taught us to measure a man by his friends, because it is they who will stand for him when he needs them. Should a regime head have the support of his soldatos and faces off against his Godfather and loses, what then?"

"Would the surviving members be seen as performing an act of disrescpect, trattare a pesci in faccia, and it cannot be ignored that those who stood by their crew leader favored his odds or held stronger bonds, than those between their city and Godfather?

"Or would they be welcomed back into the fold, as we would expect to see in the case of an army removing the commanding officer of a rebellious force?"

Louis paused for a second, gathering the multiple thought processes bouncing around under his hat.

"To give a definitive answer however, the choices a soldato makes, to stand with his crew leader when the city turns against him, or to back the Godfather in his or her supreme position, will be determined by the time and effort each man or woman has put into their city. What they have invested, or where they have created doubts. 

"In the end, the situation will always be dictated by the strength of the relationship, and there in, the strength of the man."

Walking into the streets 100% INTACT still as no Ramsey can be seen.

This has been a recent topic and as such if I have worked with the GF of course I am always loyal to the GF of my district, but never the less my leader fitted me with a suit, a home, and money.  Being a Made Man im 110% dedicated to my leader whether he/she is right or wrong, I bear the weight of that leader regardless of his or her choice.  If I wake up and my family is gone and I somehow survived, guess what? They done fucked up I am taking a shot at someone regardless of my gun strength.  I made a commitment to my leader when being Made and I will stick by it, so for my answer it's with my leader hands down.

Takes a look out for Ramsey then heads off into the sunset. 

"That is my question to you. Where should a Made Man's loyalty lie? With his leader, or with his Godfather?"

Your heart will lead you Fips.

Theon, could it not be argued that you receiving a button for your crew is the same as being accepted into your Godfather's circle? Seeing as you work for him or her, and your leader works for your Godfather or mother? I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer here and I believe you could talk circles around this subject for hours and not make any headway as to a clear cut answer. It falls upon the individual to make that decision based off of his experiences and his beliefs. Maybe the leader wants to war the Godfather, but I see the Godfather's side and chose to put a bullet in my leader's head? The hypothetical situations are endless.

Janky takes a drag from a cigarette, eyeing a well dressed man passing by. Resisting the urge to wander off and take the man for everything he has on him, he continues.

In a perfect world our city heads should be alligned with the head of their own subcrews. But alas, the world is not perfect. And that's what makes this place so fuckin' beautiful.

Ooops sory, i wanted to post that in some other thread...

Janky I can tell you from my time here hardly any GF has gotten to know many people in crews atleast from my personal exp.  I can name 2 that got to know their peeps pretty decent and that Was late GF Archy and current GF Betty.  Although some past ones I heard got to know peeps like GF Maple and a few others I personally never worked with any other GF's that I was really to fond of to be honest.  The GF didn't recruit me, paid two cents to me.  My leader means everything to be regardless right or wrong.  Differnt story if I was recruited into a GF crew, hell I could name a GF that stabbed my father in the back and made false accusations.  So in my opinion it doesn't go headway, it goes the way of my CL unless the GF actually pays mind to me and says thanks for the donations like my father before me in PH was thanked by both GF Archy and Betty whom both will always have my utmost respects.

Like I was explaining it becomes relevant to the individual, and the hypothetical situations are limitless here. You said "my leader fitted me with a suit, a home, and money.", but who gave your leader a suit, a home, and money?

My bloods always been social and I've yet to work for a Godfather or Godmother that I didn't speak to. Of course my father walked these streets a year or two ago while I was wandering around with the gypsies back in the Sicily. Shit may have changed since the time the journal entries my father made. 

Janky shrugs.

Just food for thought I guess.

Just food for thought

Is it a song JMD?

Ryssa had listened intently as Fips spoke. A thought was at once forming in her head in regards to the situation laid out in the speech.

I think it depends on the Godfather to be truthful. If your Godfather doesn't take the time to know you, why would you put your loyalty to them? If your leader gets to know you should they not have all the loyalty? As you say it is the leader that the members swear their oath to, not necessarily the Godfather. Well unless the Godfather is your crew leader.

I have rules on my loyalty. It is never blind. I cannot be loyal to someone that I do not know. Logically it does not work for me.

For me it is like the suggestion that should your leader fall that you automatically go to whoever takes their place. Well no, that doesn't work either. What if they were the most useless person in the family? I couldn't have respect for that. I swore my loyalty to my leader, that is who should have it. In the event they should die, well I would hope that doesn't happen, but if it does then I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Loyalty should always be with the person you swore it to.

Just for the sake of discussion, let's have a go at this one with the same logic I gave Theon.

Loyalty should always be with the person you swore it to.

And your leader swore loyalty to that Godfather or Godmother, despite how they choose to run their city. By chain of loyalties, wouldn't that insinuate you are swearing loyalty to that Godfather or Godmother? Despite how they choose to run their city, you chose their city.

For the sake of argument, No.

Just because my leader swears loyalty to someone does not make it so that I do. As I follow my leader then I would do as they wished, but let's not mark it up as something it is not. There is a difference in honoring the person you swore loyalty to's wishes and being loyal to a particular person yourself.

Everyone has their priority loyalties. Some will have it to friends, others to their leaders, and others to someone probably in a far away land. Does it make them bad members of society? No. Does it mean they can't work hard in a district or city to make it great? Nope.

But when it comes down to loyalty I would place my leader first and foremost. After all they are the ones that ultimately gave me a place in their crew.

I respect that. Always appreciated people with thought behind actions. But it seems like we've dug up the initial response I was trying to give in this little side discussion. Which is that we could talk in circles about this all day, but there's no clear cut "right" or "wrong". It falls upon that individuals belief structures and experiences. I just applaud someone using their brain though, it's nice to see. You're an asset to our city for that simple fact alone ma'am.

TLWolf was going to this new market in that old building when he saw and listened to Fips, It was a nice question, so he walked towards Fips & greeted him saying:

"Hello my friend, it is indeed a nice question. My answer would be I will always be loyal to my Crew Leader, unless if he goes rogue and started shooting his own members. Otherwise, My loyalty will always be to my Crew Leader "

"Godfather or Godfather-Chairman is always to be respected of course, I have not seen a  case during my life where a Godfather had a conflict with one of his Crew leaders, but theoretically it is possible i guess"

"I would love to listen to some Crew Leaders, and what they think about that"

Fips nods as he listens to the discussion he started.

"Thank you to all of you who came out to discuss this with me."

Fips turns to answer LouisGato.

"LouisGato, Friend. Your use of italian words confuse me."

Fips chuckles.

"But it sure sounded clever."

"Theon_Greyjoy, interesting argument! But would you really go down with your leader no matter what he had done?
And do you expect every single member to think like you? Should the general standard be: 'Being a Made Man im 110% dedicated to my leader whether he/she is right or wrong'?"

Fips turns to freeatlast.

"freeatlast, thank you. I will follow my heart. Also, thank you for the song. I enjoyed it."

"JankyyMcDankyy, yes, neither have I. If a member really tries to take contact to his Godfather, I'm sure said Godfather would take the time to reply. I can see the logic in your 'chain of loyalty', and I guess I sort of agree to some extent. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion."

"Ryssa, thank you. I think you're on to something smart there."

"TheLoneWolf, There has been such conflicts very recently. Question is whether or not you noticed it."

Fips turns to adress the entire crowd.

"Please, continue the discussion. And yes, I too would like to see the opinion of a leader or a Godfather."

Yes Fips I would expect every made man and up to, if went like that in the mafia world unless someone turncoated which eventually cost them their lives anyways, Blood in blood out.