With all do respect Sir, It seems pointless you have made up your mind about Mr_Mysterious and so have I.

Zaza,

No one in turn has spoken wrongly about Mr_Mysterious. He was a good man but his son comes to the streets in defence of his name which in turn is only making it worser instead of better.

We just all need to stop speaken on it,because like DK said...it's not getting better,it's getting worser.Thats just the end of it.

Horatio then says"I hope this is my last time repeating myself."

I realise that sir and I am not judging anyone, I just wanted to show people how I experienced Mr_Mysterious.

I'll say nothing bad of the dead, although I feel it's only down to the genorisity and patience of certain individuals that Mr_Mysterious saw as many sunrises as he did.

It's always sad to see a leader get clipped, but ultimately the very definition of a Leader is to lead, and to claim that one cannot be fully responsible for their peons is to ignore one of the central pillars to our way of life.

Zaza,
I am sure Mr_Mysterious_'s son appreciates the kind words you have said about his father today.

However a next of kin should show some class when returning to This World. A father's death is hard and there are always hard feelings when a relative is killed in This Thing, but you will eventually get over your father's death in time and move on. In the meantime, respect your bloodline's name by maintaining its dignity. One of my ancestors took to the streets after his father was killed and my bloodline has always regretted it. Whatever you are planning to do, reconsider it.

There are other ways to pay homage to a fallen loved one in the streets. The fact that people that were under your father's command such as Zaza have come out to speak on your father's behalf shows that despite the circumstances surrounding his death, he had good traits and had the respect of others in his crew.

May your father rest in peace, and in time, may you find peace with his death as well. Fair or unfair, it is The Mafia.

Bumps into Oderus as he attempts to navigate the crowd gathered



Oderus I think the important thing to remember is there are always two sides to a story. Mr Myst family clearly believe something different, the truth is really subjective as we can only go by what we see in front of us. What I am most interested in here is the alternative that was apparently offered. You state Death Knight that his familys many transgression were each in themselves reason enough to kill. Yet even with this latest one you were still initially not willing or wanting to do that? By your own accord you asked him to step down and retain a position in your family. I find that interesting given the news NO has been garnering as of late. I definitive example could have been made here instead we are here with more questions etc. Mysterious's family clearly do not believe at least 100 % of the reasoning has been shared. Now do not get me wrong absolutely ZERO needed to be shared. But that door was opened and when it is, there will always be detracters and nay sayers. I guess I believe less is more in most cases especially in inter city matters.



~HF~

"With all do respect Sir, It seems pointless you have made up your mind about Mr_Mysterious and so have I."

Is that how a debate is won now a days? You said i was wrong and i asked how, then you give up?

I wish sex was this easy

I got a headache

How

Guess were having sex then

I'll play devils advocate Prem, because I believe that no argument should go unheard... 

Let's suppose Mr. Mysterious was indeed a competent leader; one who drew admiration and respect within his own family, and for the most part, among his rivals and competitors.  Now, take into consideration all of the same events that led up to his final death once more.

I ask you this Godfather Premier, what would come of family organizations as an entity, if rogue members attempt to destroy more families from within?  If you were a Don and could hold over 10 other members in your particular crew, and you had one if not multiple people in your family who are self-destructive, yet give no early warning signs of their ambitions and intentions... and then go and attempt murder or perhaps succeed in murdering a rival families leadership; would then other Godfathers and/or leaders be forced to hold you accountable for what has become a disease in our society?

Essentially I challenge you with this question Godfather; where do we draw the line between incompetent leadership and an underground movement with the intent of tearing down the very pillars of our society - by pitting respectable and competent leaders against each other?

Personally, if I were a leader right now I would put an entire halt to any short-term recruitment until I have confidence that these events are not all connected to a much greater, underlying cause. 

Do you not agree there is a gray area here which should be addressed relatively soon?

"Essentially I challenge you with this question Godfather; where do
we draw the line between incompetent leadership and an underground
movement with the intent of tearing down the very pillars of our
society - by pitting respectable and competent leaders against each
other?"

If you choose someone for Right hand Man and they shoot at another Godfather, and they are apart of an underground crew to cause war, then you are incompetent for letting them be RHM. If you claim you never knew they were underground, then you are stupid for not knowing everything about someone who is RHM.

"if rogue members attempt to destroy more families from within?  If you
were a Don and could hold over 10 other members in your particular crew"

If you have one member fuck up, no problem, two that sucks, 3 whats going on, 4 wow really? And you do this for 2 weeks straight, you have it affect multiple citys? Mr_Deadserus came and claimed oh its all on LA. New York was attacked today by the same people, other citys have fealt the affects of poor leadership on his part.

You are who you keep, if you keep a bunch of morons who want nothing more then to see you and your city fall, then by all means do it but dont come out here when it happens yelling victim.

The only thing i did to New orleans was ask one of the familys to nicely stay out of LA.

Further more, i ask anyone under me in my city, to come and tell the people what they think would happen if any of this happen to them or their familes?

I agree Prem, that you made a logical and restrained decision compared to the blood you could have easily spilled over the multiple acts of aggression.

I pose these questions not just to you, but all of the current leadership.  If I were a family head and/or a Godfather of a city at this time, I would be deeply concerned about what has transpired.  I think both you and I Prem, know much about the history of the old "rogue wars" back in the old days of this thing of ours.  I won't get into specifics since most bloodlines present today, did not have an ancestor / father who was involved in this thing of ours back then. 

It's not the decisions of the current leadership that I am concerned by.  In fact, what concerns me is what is out of the control of each leader.  We don't exactly have ways of keeping tabs on new, fresh faces - particularly people who have very bad intentions and go about it in all the best ways to achieve their objectives and keep those intentions obscured. 

I think reality is that regardless of how "competent" our current leaders are - the bloodlines of those who have begun to create problems from within families - will certainly return to destroy another.  So what policies will result as a reaction when despite the best efforts of many; these individuals begin to create chaos?

"In fact, what concerns me is what is out of the control of each
leader.  We don't exactly have ways of keeping tabs on new, fresh faces
- particularly people who have very bad intentions"

Tighten the way you recruit extensive background checks on each person recruited cuts down from 19 fuck up a week to, 3 fuck ups a week.

"So what policies will result as a reaction when despite the best efforts of many; these individuals begin to create chaos?"

Be a leader?

Further
more, i ask anyone under me in my city, to come and tell the people
what they think would happen if any of this happen to them or their
familes?

Reply by: Premier at Oct 29, '09 19:00

Again I fall right under this category as a member of one of the families of LA... and I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But I do believe that my concerns go well beyond the competence of any specific leader. 

I'm not pointing fingers of blame, but I do hope to sound the alarm for what I believe is an unknown enemy - preparing to do future damage to a family of their choosing

Steps forward from behind the crowd

now this is ridiculous,im goin to explain this and go in depth so i can sum it up for the slow minded people

ok, Death knight had evualated and saw that Mr_Mysterious could lead so he gave him the chance now the thing that MM failed to realize was this position came with a lot of leadership to take it..running your own crew is not just something simple and easy its something thats ties into your daily life your crew is your family

Now when it come to recruiting there are many different ways you can recruit people, crew leaders should take the most hardest way to recruit someone which is to get to know that person because MM had to know that person was goin to reflect on him.when he saw his recruiting was goin well then thats when you start to form your inner circle,now not just anyone gets in your inner circle well i hope not but at this point MM appointed him a RHM

This person is like you but with not as must say so as you so that mean he is a effect on yu if something go bad..now this RHM of MM decided to shoot at premier for i dont know what the reason was but that was MM first mistake because running a crew you cant be just friendly and ran over you have to develope some kind of limit and power between your members and you, if MM would have practiced good habits people would have never ran over him and did what they did

Now for you Godfella first off you are in the wrong for questioning premier and second off i know premier from the stores of what i heard so i know he has power within his crew walls therfore his members wouldnt do nothingof that nature because they already kno what the consequences is due to who premier is and what kind of power he hold

Sayfor instance if we was in te real worl mafia and say one crew the nossi authed a captain and this new captain went on leading his crew and didnt practice good leadership habits and they attack the arriving crew the liners crew Godfather, in the real world that would of triggered a massacare the nossi's because first off his RHM shot at a Godfather and due to the love of the city they would take their Godfather into consideration that he has been shot and would have took action based on him being apart of the inner circle and secondbecause their Godfather have been shot at so that would nip that in the bud right there Godfather premier and Godfather DeathKnight did the right thing and discussed the situation like men and handled it the right way

Also one more thing for you Godfella say for instance if you was a captain and your RHM shot at a Godfather what actions do you think should be taken on you

Pausing for an answer

No actions would be taken on you because first of all your not a captain nor Godfather so why do you insist on coming in the streets questioning the actions that these two Godfathers took

The trouble with this debate, GoodfeIIa, is that you are spinning a hypothetical scenario which has little relevance to the matter at hand. Could some of these instances been part of an elaborate underground movement? Possibly. Does this mean anything when a Right Hand Man is involved? No. As Premier has touched upon, when a Sotto Capo is involved in a situation the rule book is thrown out of the window. S/he is not just another member, they act with the full authority of the Boss, and when the Boss is absent they ARE, de facto, The Boss. Anyone who would argue against that this is not the RHM's positions is frankly clueless.

Since I can remember, Bosses have been accountable for their RHM's actions - I can point you not only to instances resolved between us connected guys, but in addition to instances where City Hall have indicted Bosses upon the idiocy of their higher ups - the most recent example being Hydrophonic I believe.

As I've already stated, I believe it is only down to the genorosity of some individuals that Don Mysterious made it this far, but evidentally this was the straw that that broke the camel's back for Death-Knight.

Was Mr_Mysterious a nice guy? Sure, he probably was - but that's not enough. Judging from everything I've seen, I can't really see any valid opposition to Death-Knight's actions. It's pretty clear he did the necessary thing on this occasion!

"Further
more, i ask anyone under me in my city, to come and tell the people
what they think would happen if any of this happen to them or their
familes?"

Teh Dagenham Syndicate had come under attack, by what seems so regulary, we would have demanded action much earlier, hence his family being banned from Chicago. Mr_Mysterious obvious lack of leadership must have lead to these, what I like to call, "Boredom Rogues".

Keeping your family close and active discourages such "Boredom Rogues", apparently Mr_Mysterious wasn't close and/or active enough within his own family. Hence bad leadership. What had to be done, was. Accept that.

Mr. Levenstein,

I understand that I am posing a hypothetical scenario while playing "devil's advocate," but as a result of the unique history I have mentioned in the history of this thing of ours - it could unfortunately warrant some merit.  However, only time will tell if these attacks will increase and more families will be targeted.

I do want to make clear that I have not yet addressed the fact that one of the assailants was the RHM of the family.  In my opinion, this was the first and foremost mistake made by Mr. Mysterious - who we all know in another day and time, would never have been given a second chance.  I believe that if you cannot trust absolutely, anyone in your family with the power an RHM commands - you shouldn't pick any RHM and you definitely need to start surrounding yourself with better company as Premier previously mentioned.

Mr. D. Dragon,

I think you have misinterpreted my purpose in posing these arguments.  I DO agree with all of the actions taken by both the leadership in LA and the Godfather of New Orleans.  In fact, I also agree that perhaps greater action should have been taken sooner (the first incident involving the RHM)

I don't have to "accept" anything because I am not contending anything.  My father knows the pressures of leadership and has in the past, created ways to prevent this "boredom" problem.  However, I think that regardless of personal views, each and every leader should be on their guard for who they recruit.  I could be wrong about the hypothetical I posed, and I sincerely hope I am just being overly-cautious. 

But then again, perhaps this paranoia stems from lessons my father taught me about proper leadership and I am now sharing them with the community at large in hopes they may help others.

GoodFella, My previous comment was not aimed at you specifically, but as a general opinion on the matter.

Godfather Premier asked what we would do in that situation, as a way of asking our opinions on his actions, I agree wholeheartedly with the way this issue was dealt with. Alas, I personally would have called for greater action like this earlier.

As for the "Accept It" comments, that was actually more aimed at Mr_Mysterious' son coming to the streets to complain.

""With all do respect Sir, It seems pointless you have made up your mind about Mr_Mysterious and so have I."

Is that how a debate is won now a days? You said i was wrong and i asked how, then you give up?"

Debate? What debate?